NORTHERNSOUL
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Or maybe theyre trying to ensure that section is finished on time to allow the electrics from Liverpool to extend thru to Blackpool again which would probably free up DMU.s for use elsewhere.
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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification
- Thread starter GRALISTAIR
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Or maybe theyre trying to ensure that section is finished on time to allow the electrics from Liverpool to extend thru to Blackpool again which would probably free up DMU.s for use elsewhere.
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GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Welcome to the forum. On this thread we are all a welcoming lot and there is not too much bad blood on here. So thanks for your contribution and once again welcome.
Of course on the original plans back in 2011?? ish , Blackpool was going to be done first anyway. But yes, having Liverpool -Blackpool on electric by May 2018 would be nice.
Elecman
Established Member
By May2018 both Manchester and Liverpool to Blackpool plus Virgins can all be electric
I don't think there are any plans to switch Blackpool service to Pendolinos because they do not have sufficient to run all exisiting wired up routes which is why Voyagers run to Scotland. Perhaps the next franchise winner will suggest a daily service to a different location (or an extra service from and to Wrexham or Shrewsbury). The flexibility to be able to change to electric services could be helpful though.
There is some availability in the off peak and 390s to Blackpool is certainly on the table by the look of this thread
Whistler40145
Established Member
AFAIK Blackpool North will be served by one daily Pendolino service to London Euston by switching around another diagram. It is Virgin Trains intention to run three Pendolino services in the future.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It all has to get through the regulator (ORR) with the GNWR proposal.
But there does seem to be off-peak capacity in the 390 fleet.
The daily 221 will continue (merges with a Holyhead at Crewe).
That is only 9 months away. Very little has been done since October 2016.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Wife and daughter just traveled down Tom Benson way and reported 11 pairs of electric poles ! Lol Great when I can enroll family for progress reports
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LDECRexile
Established Member
I did a full Progressometer run, Man Vic to Blackpool North and back today. Please see attached.
I also took half a dozen photos while changing trains. I've added them to the Combined Volume, here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633
I also took half a dozen photos while changing trains. I've added them to the Combined Volume, here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633
LDECRexile
Established Member
Yo! What a team.
dk1
Veteran Member
The Pendolino plan for 3 return trips I thought was from December 2018 as long as agreed. Some acceleration of Anglo-Scots in these hours are mooted too.
Whistler40145
Established Member
That's the impression I got.
Elecman
Established Member
You are joking there I assume, there is massive progress between Preston -Blackpool
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
7780g what is the highlight? The budliea or signal cables
Great progressometer report- thanks
Foggycorner
Member
It looks to be of the new signal base with bolts
or could just be bolton in bloom entry
or could just be bolton in bloom entry
LDECRexile
Established Member
I simply wanged the Progressometer out last night, now I've slept on it.
I am uneasy at the total number of bases between Salford and Euxton.
First, some comments on the data:
1. There are no numbers for Deal Street Jct to Salford Central east end [Row 15], let's say add 10 masts (can someone please supply actual figures?)
2. There are no numbers for the northern half of the Windsor link (north of the current wiring limit from Ordsall Jct) [Row 77], let's say add 12 masts (can someone please supply actual figures?)
3. I omitted the base on Farnworth station photographed earlier last week, let's say add 1 base. (I've corrected it now.)
4. The number of bases at Bolton station [Row 28] is a glorified guess, let's say add 6 more (they extend towards Blackburn, for example.) (Can someone please supply actual figures?)
5. Vegetation, trains passing on the other track, ticket inspections (extremely rare) and incompetence all lead to me missing bases, let's say add 4%, ie 33
6. Dead BB bases, base-like drainage structures, signal bases and incompetence all lead to me overstating bases, let's ignore this probability.
7. The estimate of 1400 bases for the line south of Euxton is an estimate. I seem to recall a target figure of 1477 from engineers, let's ignore that and stick with 1400. (Can anyone please supply an actual target figure?)
The actual totals south of Euxton are: Rows 29, 44 and 78. They are reflected in the percentages in Row 83.
As every mast implies a base we can simply add together the total bare bases and total masts to get the total bases, so we get
Row 29: 129+143=272 (includes Farnworth correction)
Row 44: 228+322=550
Row 78: 14+0 = 14
plus corrections from above
Deal St-Salf Cent = 10
Windsor Link = 12
Bolton station = 6
Undercounting = 33
--------------------------------
Total =897
Target =1400
% =64%
Two thirds of bases in the ground and it's mid-July?
Please show me I'm missing something.
I am uneasy at the total number of bases between Salford and Euxton.
First, some comments on the data:
1. There are no numbers for Deal Street Jct to Salford Central east end [Row 15], let's say add 10 masts (can someone please supply actual figures?)
2. There are no numbers for the northern half of the Windsor link (north of the current wiring limit from Ordsall Jct) [Row 77], let's say add 12 masts (can someone please supply actual figures?)
3. I omitted the base on Farnworth station photographed earlier last week, let's say add 1 base. (I've corrected it now.)
4. The number of bases at Bolton station [Row 28] is a glorified guess, let's say add 6 more (they extend towards Blackburn, for example.) (Can someone please supply actual figures?)
5. Vegetation, trains passing on the other track, ticket inspections (extremely rare) and incompetence all lead to me missing bases, let's say add 4%, ie 33
6. Dead BB bases, base-like drainage structures, signal bases and incompetence all lead to me overstating bases, let's ignore this probability.
7. The estimate of 1400 bases for the line south of Euxton is an estimate. I seem to recall a target figure of 1477 from engineers, let's ignore that and stick with 1400. (Can anyone please supply an actual target figure?)
The actual totals south of Euxton are: Rows 29, 44 and 78. They are reflected in the percentages in Row 83.
As every mast implies a base we can simply add together the total bare bases and total masts to get the total bases, so we get
Row 29: 129+143=272 (includes Farnworth correction)
Row 44: 228+322=550
Row 78: 14+0 = 14
plus corrections from above
Deal St-Salf Cent = 10
Windsor Link = 12
Bolton station = 6
Undercounting = 33
--------------------------------
Total =897
Target =1400
% =64%
Two thirds of bases in the ground and it's mid-July?
Please show me I'm missing something.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
One big factor, Twin Track Cantilevers, messes numbers up.
North of Horwich, and round from Buckshaw to Euxton Jn, a large proportion of the bases support TTCs with no base/mast on the other side.
The long embankment through Clifton is an area where TTCs might be going in, to explain the long gaps.
The few bases there, on the embankment side, look to be more complex than normal.
I also think they are now installing some more specialist concrete bases elsewhere along the route, plugging gaps in the piles.
I'll get a better view sometime this week, but they'll be pushed to finish by December.
On the other hand, Preston-Blackpool has moved on quickly in the same period, admittedly in open country and with seemingly good ground conditions - but why the gap from Salwick to Kirkham?
The actual wiring also seems to be quite a rapid process these days.
Overall progress is driven by the base construction really.
Great detail, by the way.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Indeed, I've resisted referring to gaps because of TTCs.
The one thing which would set my mind at rest would be to be comforted that the 1400 target is significantly too high.
If anyone can give a realistic figure I for one would be very grateful.
The areas where, impressionistically, there appear to be real, non-TTC, gaps are:
1. Farnworth tunnel (could be fully kitted out with danglies for all I know)
2. the tunnel and bridges immediately north of Bolton
3. Chorley tunnel and approach cuttings
4. Broughton Rd bridge to Agecroft N Jct
5. Agecroft Road bridge and approaches from N and S
6. Yarrow viaduct
7. Farnworth Stn to Squeeze Belly Entry bridge
8. Bolton Platform 5
9. Burnden, West side
10. Several stations
BMIFlyer
Member
- Joined
- 13 Mar 2017
- Messages
- 723
Regarding the section from Salwick to Kirkham, the majority of this will be done in the winter blockade. No point in laying masts or bases yet when the track alignment will change and the station will be rebuilt at Kirkham.
Current works on this section consist of drainage, pipe work and cabling troughs amongst other things. They've also installed a few location cabinets for the new signalling.
Regarding the mast bases, if coming from Preston the last one is installed at Salwick signal box currently.
PS: Farnworth tunnel - OHLE equipment will be hung from the tunnel roof. The fitting attachments for the equipment are installed already and were done after the tunnel was built in one of the following possession periods.
Regarding Bolton, expect to see more masts immediately north of the station following the 3 week blockade in August when the track in the station area is all replaced and remodelled.
Current works on this section consist of drainage, pipe work and cabling troughs amongst other things. They've also installed a few location cabinets for the new signalling.
Regarding the mast bases, if coming from Preston the last one is installed at Salwick signal box currently.
PS: Farnworth tunnel - OHLE equipment will be hung from the tunnel roof. The fitting attachments for the equipment are installed already and were done after the tunnel was built in one of the following possession periods.
Regarding Bolton, expect to see more masts immediately north of the station following the 3 week blockade in August when the track in the station area is all replaced and remodelled.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Regarding the section from Salwick to Kirkham, the majority of this will be done in the winter blockade. No point in laying masts or bases yet when the track alignment will change and the station will be rebuilt at Kirkham.
Current works on this section consist of drainage, pipe work and cabling troughs amongst other things. They've also installed a few location cabinets for the new signalling.
Regarding the mast bases, if coming from Preston the last one is installed at Salwick signal box currently.
PS: Farnworth tunnel - OHLE equipment will be hung from the tunnel roof. The fitting attachments for the equipment are installed already and were done after the tunnel was built in one of the following possession periods.
Regarding Bolton, expect to see more masts immediately north of the station following the 3 week blockade in August when the track in the station area is all replaced and remodelled.
This is helpful, thank you.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTGnTgdWfh4
Dave check at starting at 10 minutes almost exactly - to about 14.00 minutes. Bullet point 2 clearly shows 1477
LDECRexile
Established Member
Oh dear; I feared as much. Thank you for this clarity.
I attach the Progressometer updated with a notional extra few "bases" for the danglies in Farnworth tunnel and with Gralistair's significant 1477 represented in yellow in Row 82 and the result in Row 83. This shows that just 57% of bases are in place.
Let us assume a reporting underscore of 5% because of long grass, incompetence, ticket collections etc; meaning the best case figure is 63%. (I have to say I don't really buy this, not because I reckon I'm an infallible reporter, but because the countervailing likelihoods of overscoring are probably about the same, eg clusters of bases all being counted but three are "dead" Balfour B efforts.)
Let us discount some bases as not strictly necessary for a December launch, ie Bolton Platform 1, 2 & 5. Let's call that 77 bases, then we're back to 1400 which must be in place for launch to be possible.
This puts our best case Base Score as 66%.
100% have to be in place, one down, no show.
These bases can't be installed on the day before launch, they have to be in place by end of September to allow for masts, wires, testing & training.
It is now mid-July, so we're looking at 15+31+30=76 days to install 460 bases, ie 6 every night, 7 days per week.
Gulp.
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GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I stick by my prediction that the whole lot Manchester to Blackpool will be ready for MAY 2018 timetable. December is looking optimistic
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
- Messages
- 9,664
My money is on a delayed implementation of the December Timetable to January.
LDECRexile
Established Member
I regret to say that I won't bet against you on this.
I hope we're obliged to eat our headwear.
D
DJH1971
Established Member
Or somewhere in between in February/March?
CAF397
Member
Major signalling issue this morning. One signal on the Down Bolton reported as displaying a red and yellow aspect together (sunlight not a factor). Delays and diversions.
Joseph_Locke
Established Member
Ooh ooh is this a sweepstake? Can I have 18 May 2018 please?
Greybeard33
Established Member
Airport to Blackpools diverted via Chat Moss, Airport to Southports diverted via Atherton. Others delayed.
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