Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[42626]

Should PRIVATE home addresses be published on this public forum ? I do not think so !!:roll:

The address was posted as shown in the NR press release by snowball as the address for Adlington CC. I contacted NR and they have now modified their website.

As to the publication of the address, It is shown on the cricket club's own website as the membership contact.

By the way , how come no meetings in Leyland for us that use Buckshaw Parkway because it is free and much bigger than Leyland although charge is a reasonable £1 per day .??

Same for Horwich and Blackrod, whereas Buckshaw, Chorley, Adlington, Lostock, Farnworth, Moses Gate and even '2 trains' Clifton get a local meeting.

 

[Buck Shaw]

By the way , how come no meetings in Leyland for us that use Buckshaw Parkway because it is free and much bigger than Leyland although charge is a reasonable £1 per day .??

Probably because as you say Len, we are bigger

It could also have something to do with the fact that there is an fair bit of work to be done on the lines right next to Buckshaw, whereas once past Euxton Junction.......

The amount of complaints NR got from Buckshaw residents around Christmas and during other previous work, where they were criticised for not advertising the work in advance might mean they are deliberately targeting Buckshaw for PR purposes.

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul and I covered "our" line today, armed with Mk 1 paper and pencils, Paul did Bolton-Manchester Victoria and back and I did Bolton-Blackpool North and back.

Bearing in mind that logging masts and bases from speeding trains is art as much as science, our findings are shown in the Progressometer, attached below.

For people new to or rusty with the Progressometer, where something has changed since the previous recording it is shown with a yellow background in columns N and O.

Summary data is shown at the bottom in rows 87 to 103. The colour coding seeks to summarise the degree of progress in the lengths shown in the main database. Changes can be see in cells O99 to O102 where the mileage with no bases at all has dropped by 0.6% and the mileage with some bases in place has dropped by 4.1%, with compensating gains in the rows above.

Column D seeks to give a visual impression of progress, but I freely admit it gets confused by the surrounding melee.

Moving on to what it means, Cell N102 shows 30.7% of route mileage with no bases at all, eg Farnworth-Kearsley-Clifton. If the forthcoming blockades are wowfabgroovy for electrification teams to get cracking 24/7 then we're in with a chance for November, otherwise......

Photos to follow, probably Wednesday.

NB: five footbridges to put in, as per Bridgeoscope, below.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Moving on to what it means, Cell N102 shows 30.7% of route mileage with no bases at all, eg Farnworth-Kearsley-Clifton. If the forthcoming blockades are wowfabgroovy for electrification teams to get cracking 24/7 then we're in with a chance for November, otherwise......

Excellent stuff as usual. My counts today seem to match yours pretty well.
I may be be able to increase the percentages a bit by observing that I think 20 masts per km is more likely that 30, in open country at least.
I've seen somewhere that a typical interval is 50-55m (and there are always more in complex sections).
The 30 per km in your spreadsheet is a 33m interval which I think is a bit low (ie fewer than 1400 masts will be needed).

Still much to do however.
I think the amount of work being done by orangemen, seemingly unconnected with electrification (eg cable routes, drainage, signalling preparations etc), is also very high.
There were a couple of loose piles trackside at Windsor Bridge South Jn today, which made me think piling attention was moving to Salford Crescent.

 

[LDECRexile]

Photos processed quicker than feared:

Mostly thanks to Paul.

I've added his shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381

and all our shots to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

Thank you Paul.

 

[LDECRexile]

Excellent stuff as usual. My counts today seem to match yours pretty well.
I may be be able to increase the percentages a bit by observing that I think 20 masts per km is more likely that 30, in open country at least.
I've seen somewhere that a typical interval is 50-55m (and there are always more in complex sections).
The 30 per km in your spreadsheet is a 33m interval which I think is a bit low (ie fewer than 1400 masts will be needed).

Still much to do however.
I think the amount of work being done by orangemen, seemingly unconnected with electrification (eg cable routes, drainage, signalling preparations etc), is also very high.
There were a couple of loose piles trackside at Windsor Bridge South Jn today, which made me think piling attention was moving to Salford Crescent.

Thank you for the kind remark.

I agree re the "other" Orangemen, eg I saw at least two brand new signals lying down trackside today. We must never forget that electrification is usually much much more than "just" electrification.

 

[snowball]

I wonder how the parapet-raising process now going on will affect the bridge to the Bolton side of Farnworth with the open stone balustrades covered with wooden sheets?

(Sory, I forget its name, but we had a longish discussion about bridges in that area a year or two ago.)

 

[LDECRexile]

I wonder how the parapet-raising process now going on will affect the bridge to the Bolton side of Farnworth with the open stone balustrades covered with wooden sheets?

(Sory, I forget its name, but we had a longish discussion about bridges in that area a year or two ago.)

I think we just called it the Balustraded Bridge, its neighbour to the north is Squeeze Belly Entry.

I'd like to see a grander version of the footbridge at the eastern end of Rainhill station, where clear material (perspex or similar) has been used to meet modern standards whilst leaving the historic original visible.

Failing that I'd vote to have it dismantled and stored ready to be re-erected somewhere public if anyone is interested enough to back doing so. It has been hiding behind vegetation and tatty wooden screens since Adam were a lad, so perhaps it's not a high priority to Bolton folk.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thank you for the kind remark.

Actually I was wrong about the mast numbers.
You are counting 15 pairs per km which is therefore a separation of 66.7m.
In fact that's pretty generous.
So much for having a maths degree...
Leaving aside Lostock-Wigan, the Victoria-Blackpool route is missing 42% of its bases (Agecroft-Farnworth, Salwick-Blackpool (mostly), with a few gaps elsewhere (eg Chorley tunnel/arches).

 

[LDECRexile]

Actually I was wrong about the mast numbers.
You are counting 15 pairs per km which is therefore a separation of 66.7m.
In fact that's pretty generous.
So much for having a maths degree...
Leaving aside Lostock-Wigan, the Victoria-Blackpool route is missing 42% of its bases (Agecroft-Farnworth, Salwick-Blackpool (mostly), with a few gaps elsewhere (eg Chorley tunnel/arches).

The other area short of bases is hiding in plain view, ie all stations except Moses Gate, Adlington and Salford Central.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Paul and I covered "our" line today, armed with Mk 1 paper and pencils, Paul did Bolton-Manchester Victoria and back and I did Bolton-Blackpool North and back.

Bearing in mind that logging masts and bases from speeding trains is art as much as science, our findings are shown in the Progressometer, attached below.

For people new to or rusty with the Progressometer, where something has changed since the previous recording it is shown with a yellow background in columns N and O.

Summary data is shown at the bottom in rows 87 to 103. The colour coding seeks to summarise the degree of progress in the lengths shown in the main database. Changes can be see in cells O99 to O102 where the mileage with no bases at all has dropped by 0.6% and the mileage with some bases in place has dropped by 4.1%, with compensating gains in the rows above.

Column D seeks to give a visual impression of progress, but I freely admit it gets confused by the surrounding melee.

Moving on to what it means, Cell N102 shows 30.7% of route mileage with no bases at all, eg Farnworth-Kearsley-Clifton. If the forthcoming blockades are wowfabgroovy for electrification teams to get cracking 24/7 then we're in with a chance for November, otherwise......

Photos to follow, probably Wednesday.

NB: five footbridges to put in, as per Bridgeoscope, below.

Thanks for this - very useful! Can I ask why the number of masts in the "MVE2 Bolton to Euxton Junction" masts goes down from April 2016 to October 2016? Was the initial estimate too high?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks for this - very useful! Can I ask why the number of masts in the "MVE2 Bolton to Euxton Junction" masts goes down from April 2016 to October 2016? Was the initial estimate too high?

I think part of it is that the initial run of concrete bases was redesigned and partially replaced by metal piles, after the change in contractor.
It's impossible to know which concrete ones will still be used, and about 30% (at a guess) have been replaced so far.
I for one gave up counting on this stretch.
Broadly, piles = good, concrete = bad (but I've noticed some new concrete bases as well!).

 

[QueensCurve]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2925507&postcount=3954?

A picture paints a tousand words. :cry:

 

[Trackman]

I wonder how the parapet-raising process now going on will affect the bridge to the Bolton side of Farnworth with the open stone balustrades covered with wooden sheets?

(Sory, I forget its name, but we had a longish discussion about bridges in that area a year or two ago.)

I think it's called Bentley's bridge if I'm thinking about the same one, I think it has B I-E on it too. Something to do with with the Bentley family at Birch House where the old Grammar school was.
It must have been great in the steam days!
AFAIK, it's staying put. not heard anything about the wooden boards.

 

[Trackman]

Thank you for the kind remark.

I agree re the "other" Orangemen, eg I saw at least two brand new signals lying down trackside today. We must never forget that electrification is usually much much more than "just" electrification.

I was on the line yesterday, I saw about 3 new LED signals south of Salford Crescent in use. round about where it goes 75 and the signal post where there is a repeater. When I say new, I've not been on the line for about 6 months.

 

[snowball]

I think it's called Bentley's bridge if I'm thinking about the same one, I think it has B I-E on it too. Something to do with with the Bentley family at Birch House where the old Grammar school was.
It must have been great in the steam days!
AFAIK, it's staying put. not heard anything about the wooden boards.

There's a listed building application to attach OLE to Bentley's bridge (see top of post #3560 on page 238) but I can't find anything on Bolton Council's website about applications to raise parapets on any bridges.

 

[42626]

Just been to the Adlington Network Rail drop-in. Usual electrification benefit posters and a number of large google earth prints of the local area.

The leaflet they were giving out for the Adlington area is attached but includes:

Work has already commenced to install foundations along the route (at circa 50-60 metre intervals) to provide a stable base for stanchions.

These consist of a combination of concrete and piled foundations. Only 23 of the 128 foundations are left to be installed in this location. These should be completed by the end of May 2017.

Work commenced to install steel structures (stanchions) at each foundation location in late 2016 and will continue until September 2017 along the route.

We anticipate that steel installation will commence in this area in May 2017.

Also had a chat regarding the locations of the Blackrod, Lostock and Clifton feeder substations, the latter less than half a mile from the location of the original L&Y power station when they tried to electrify the line using third rail.

 

[Elecman]

Also had a chat regarding the locations of the Blackrod, Lostock and Clifton feeder substations, the latter less than half a mile from the location of the original L&Y power station when they tried to electrify the line using third rail.

I don't think you mean feeder stations as you don't need any feeder stations, do you mean Track Sectioning locations? Not sure you would need Blackrod and Lostock as they are too close together?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't think you mean feeder stations as you don't need any feeder stations, do you mean Track Sectioning locations? Not sure you would need Blackrod and Lostock as they are too close together?

There were 5 new sets of "switchgear" on the 30-mile Chat Moss route.
These are at Ordsall Lane, Astley, Newton le Willows, Huyton Quarry and Edge Hill.
Nothing extra was needed on the Wigan branch (no ATF), but there is a new installation at Springs Branch where the route joins the WCML.

The Salford-Euxton line is 25 miles, so I'd imagine it's going to need a similar level of kit, although it already has new installations at both ends (Ordsall, Euxton).
There is certainly work going on at Clifton, Lostock and Blackrod, but too early to see what it is for (it might eg be for signalling).

 

[Joseph_Locke]

There were 5 new sets of "switchgear" on the 30-mile Chat Moss route.
These are at Ordsall Lane, Astley, Newton le Willows, Huyton Quarry and Edge Hill.
Nothing extra was needed on the Wigan branch (no ATF), but there is a new installation at Springs Branch where the route joins the WCML.

The Salford-Euxton line is 25 miles, so I'd imagine it's going to need a similar level of kit, although it already has new installations at both ends (Ordsall, Euxton).
There is certainly work going on at Clifton, Lostock and Blackrod, but too early to see what it is for (it might eg be for signalling).

They are traction supply switching locations with Autotransformers.

Manchester to Preston will normally be fed from Stalybridge/Heyrod (temporarily via the mother of all extension leads).

There are only two full neutral sections, one at Lostock (I think it's still in) and one at Euxton Junction. These allow the various bits to be fed via other means (once its all finished).

 

[42626]

I don't think you mean feeder stations as you don't need any feeder stations, do you mean Track Sectioning locations? Not sure you would need Blackrod and Lostock as they are too close together?

They may well be - the person I spoke to, who said they were working on these, referred to them as substations. Maybe the term is used differently to what I understand a substation to be in my industry.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

They may well be - the person I spoke to, who said they were working on these, referred to them as substations. Maybe the term is used differently to what I understand a substation to be in my industry.

The only difference would be the pits and ducts for a feeder cable from ENW, the lack of which wouldn't be obvious to the (civils) layman.

"Sub" on the railway is shorthand for a shunt signal.

 

[42626]

They are traction supply switching locations with Autotransformers.

Ah OK I see

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There are only two full neutral sections, one at Lostock (I think it's still in) and one at Euxton Junction.

Please forgive my ignorance I am not an electrical engineer. If I were designing a system I would not put a neutral section on a junction in case there was no momentum on the train and the pant got "gapped". I would design on a section where there was a bit of a run if that makes sense.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Please forgive my ignorance I am not an electrical engineer. If I were designing a system I would not put a neutral section on a junction in case there was no momentum on the train and the pant got "gapped". I would design on a section where there was a bit of a run if that makes sense.

The junction signals are a long way away!

 

[LDECRexile]

I had a chat with an Orangeman last night, the key point being that action at Bolton ratchets up this weekend (25/26th March) when the loops south of the station will be disconnected from the signalling system.

This will allow the loop tracks to be lifted in the coming weeks.

This will allow the main lines to be realigned and masts to be put up before the blockade.

As he said: "Bolton begins in earnest!"

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul's Monday photo 6984a Salford Crescent has attracted this comment on flickr:

"How odd. Appears to be Furrer + Frey (Series 1) OLE fittings rather than the Omnia (Series 2) of Manchester Preston"

Would anyone like to take this further?

Edit:

I now see this has been pursued on the Liverpool-Manchester thread.

 

[Dixie]

Lot's of interesting railway professional presentations on this link, some of which relate to this scheme:

https://www.thepwi.org/technical_hu...chnical_seminar_-_modernising_railway_network

 

[Dixie]

Paul's Monday photo 6984a Salford Crescent has attracted this comment on flickr:

"How odd. Appears to be Furrer + Frey (Series 1) OLE fittings rather than the Omnia (Series 2) of Manchester Preston"

Would anyone like to take this further?

Edit:

I now see this has been pursued on the Liverpool-Manchester thread.

It was me who added the comment to the photo. I wasn't sure which thread to comment on, since the location in question is linked to several threads, but it just seemed strange that the designers would mix and match different makes of catenary, particularly as that area already has Omnia catenary. However, it also has old mark 1 at Deansgate, so it's all a bit mix and match I suppose.

 

[snowball]

Lot's of interesting railway professional presentations on this link, some of which relate to this scheme:

https://www.thepwi.org/technical_hu...chnical_seminar_-_modernising_railway_network

I've now read several of those. The one by John Fry is particularly interesting.

A pit it's not always easy to tell from the slides what was actually said. Also a pity each presentation doesn't come with a glossary of abbreviations!