Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[LNW-GW Joint]

Closure of one or two boxes then.

Blackpool North, Carleton Crossing, Poulton, Kirkham, Salwick (if the last one doesn't fall down first!).
Kirkham controls the Blackpool South line too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

-- Salwick (if the last one doesn't fall down first!).

Yes - last time I was there photographing bridges being raised etc - I noticed it was in an extreme state of disrepair - in fact I may even have a photo somewhere.

 

[Elecman]

It's now propped up

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Will this be controlled from Manchester or Preston PSB in the interim?

 

[CAF397]

Absolute block from Blackpool North to Kirkham.

Blackpool No 2
Carleton Crossing
Poulton No 3
Kirkham North Jn

Semaphores from Blackpool to Poulton, barring Poultons distant on the Down, and Blackpool No 2s distant and outer Home signal, which are colour lights.

Colour lights (but still Absolute Block) from Poulton to Kirkham, then Track Circuit Block from Kirkham to Preston (3-aspect colour lights), including Salwick.

When I was with NR the plan was for the entire line to be re-controlled from Ashburys ROC, I don't see why that plan should have changed.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

When I was with NR the plan was for the entire line to be re-controlled from Ashburys ROC, I don't see why that plan should have changed.

It hasn't; the ongoing debate is what to do with the Blackpool South line.

 

[Grumpy]

It hasn't; the ongoing debate is what to do with the Blackpool South line.

That's easy. Redouble. Extend northwards from Blackpool South along the western edge of the largely unused car parking as far as practicable towards the former Central site, then close Kirkham-Blackpool North.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

That's easy. Redouble. Extend northwards from Blackpool South along the western edge of the largely unused car parking as far as practicable towards the former Central site, then close Kirkham-Blackpool North.

Why on earth would you do that? Or was it tongue in cheek? So Layton and Poulton lose service? As we are in a new golden age of railways, my belief is no line should close.

 

[Whistler40145]

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

You either want electric trains running through to Blackpool North or stay the same as now.

I say put up and shut up and cope with Rail Replacement Buses.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[GRALISTAIR]

You either want electric trains running through to Blackpool North or stay the same as now.

I want electric trains to Blackpool North ASAP. I then want Kirkham -B'Pool Sth and the Calder Valley with infill Nelson - Colne looked at separately.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

You either want electric trains running through to Blackpool North or stay the same as now.

I say put up and shut up and cope with Rail Replacement Buses.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Nobody was complaining about the rail replacement buses, it was a suggestion on doing something different with the Blackpool South route which is, at the moment, a bit of a pest.

 

[Whistler40145]

Sorry if I interpreted the situation incorrectly.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I agree, the Blackpool South line is a bit of a problem. It all depends on what works are being carried out first. If the works are at the Blackpool North end of the line then surely the Signalling would be still working from Preston to Kirkham and the South Fylde line? If this is the case, a shuttle service could be run from Blackpool South to Preston or Manchester Victoria with the Colne service starting and terminating at Preston.

I look forward to your comments or suggestions.

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[PR1Berske]

I have experienced the Blackpool South trains emptying entirely at Preston, creating an unofficial change of service where there's a Blackpool to Preston train, and then it fills up as a Preston to East Lancs service.

I don't know how, with unit movements and such, how these could officially become two distinctly separate services, but it's worth looking at how so many passengers from Blackpool South consider the service to be for Preston and no further.

 

[Class 170101]

They are probably one service to save units. Leicester to Lincoln is similar as this saves units across Nottingham.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I agree, the Blackpool South line is a bit of a problem.

So to simplify the situation for my benefit - what problem? Is it that ideally you need to re-signal to Blackpool South also and that would delay the project further. Or leave it with old signaling which could be operated from ? and then just use a DMU under the wires. Still can't see why the completion date would get delayed - unless I am being really thick and dense and can't see the obvious.

 

[Elecman]

There is very little signalling on the Blackpool South line apart from the actual junction at Kirkham and The local equipment at Moss Side crossing

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So to simplify the situation for my benefit - what problem? Is it that ideally you need to re-signal to Blackpool South also and that would delay the project further. Or leave it with old signaling which could be operated from ? and then just use a DMU under the wires. Still can't see why the completion date would get delayed - unless I am being really thick and dense and can't see the obvious.

Presumably the main line will be resignalled with axle counters (yellow mushrooms) for train detection.
To eliminate Kirkham box probably means doing this on the branch as well.
That possibly gives them some scope for improvements (an intermediate loop maybe?).
It all depends on how the TOC (ie Northern) want to run services in the future.
The potential on the branch is pretty high really, with the relative affluence in the area.
A remote diesel island isn't very clever really.
The Morecambe branch is in a similar position.

 

[Whistler40145]

I'm presuming that the necessary remodelling of Blackpool North and Kirkham & Wesham will be completed prior to the re-signalling takes place and following that the final works are associated with the electrification?

 

[PR1Berske]

They are probably one service to save units. Leicester to Lincoln is similar as this saves units across Nottingham.

I thought summut like this would be the case.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Is it a case of everything stops until funding can be agreed to rectify whichever bridge it is? Or can they carry on putting mast bases/masts up and all the other ancillary stuff in the meantime?

And i take it track lowering isn't an option?

Guessing now that this may be a fairly big spanner in the works considering the lack of activity apart from what's happening at Chorley. Not NR fault obviously, but may push dates back/costs up a bit..?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Guessing now that this may be a fairly big spanner in the works considering the lack of activity apart from what's happening at Chorley. Not NR fault obviously, but may push dates back/costs up a bit..?

I just do not understand why they can not at least get some bases done -surely there is other stuff that can be done?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not NR fault obviously,

I can't think of anybody else who is in charge of implementing standards on the railway.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

It hasn't; the ongoing debate is what to do with the Blackpool South line.

The South line was singled in the 80's. Losing its Manchester Service, as it can now only run 1TPH.
The remaining service is Blackpool South to Colne.
It is a very popular service, running through busy areas - St Annes and Lytham.
Numbers are very much suppressed by only one train per hour and a 2 coach pacer, often rammed in season (Pleasure Beach)
A dynamic passing loop and 2 trains per hour is desperately needed, but nothing on the cards.

 

[Lankyline]

Solution to Blackpool south is easy, close it up to Lytham and then make it tram/train, tram, or horse and carriage to Blackpool from there, linking into the Blackpool north tram extension.
Lets face it Blackpool council buggered it all up in the 60's anyway when they shut Central, against Beechings recommendation.

 

[SodTheDrummer]

I can't think of anybody else who is in charge of implementing standards on the railway.

Fair point..

Let's just blame the EU, that seems to be the thing to do nowadays..

Shouldn't stop bases/masts going in though..

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I can't think of anybody else who is in charge of implementing standards on the railway.

*cough* ORR *cough*

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Solution to Blackpool south is easy, close it up to Lytham and then make it tram/train, tram, or horse and carriage to Blackpool from there, linking into the Blackpool north tram extension.
Lets face it Blackpool council buggered it all up in the 60's anyway when they shut Central, against Beechings recommendation.

Two wrongs don't make a right

Closing Central Station was a huge mistake. Blackpool North is not very accessible. Usage level at North is low in my opinion for such a large Town / tourist destination.
Many companies hire a taxi to Preston for their VIPs!

Blackpool South has much potential - Passing loop & more trains.
Large car park adjacent suitable for park & Ride.
Goes trough a population /employment corridor.
Many commute to Preston & beyond for work.
Pleasure Beach is directly served by this service.
Many tourists arrive at South.
Tram - Imagine being detrained at Lytham, and having to walk with your luggage to the other end of the platform to board a tram.
Great for Lytham, but no one else.

 

[notlob.divad]

Solution to Blackpool south is easy, close it up to Lytham and then make it tram/train, tram, or horse and carriage to Blackpool from there, linking into the Blackpool north tram extension.
Lets face it Blackpool council buggered it all up in the 60's anyway when they shut Central, against Beechings recommendation.

I see the appeal of expanding the Blackpool tram system into a Blackpool and Fylde system, With a run up to Blackpool North Station. However I don't understand why you would cut it to Lytham. Would it not make sense taking it to a Kirkham Interchange?

Ideally you would also re-instate it out to Poulton and onto the old Fleetwood line track as well.

I am not old enough to know this, but was the old Central Station demolished so that the M55 could be built all the way into the middle of the town, back in the day when rather than being the polluting monsters we now see them as, cars where the kings of the future.

 

[snowball]

Is this talk about the Blackpool South line just talk among forum members about what they would like to see happen, or is it because NR haven't made up their mind yet?

If the latter, it's a bit late for that, isn't it?

Meanwhile on Manchester-Preston, I still don't understand why no masts are going up. Even if NR has suddenly realised that new rules make some locations difficult, why should that prevent work elsewhere?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Meanwhile on Manchester-Preston, I still don't understand why no masts are going up. Even if NR has suddenly realised that new rules make some locations difficult, why should that prevent work elsewhere?

Or at minimum bases being constructed/going in. Sure seems strange to me. If you want to keep a project on time, you do stuff elsewhere - surely helps the critical path.