Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Senex]

Does anyone know the reason for the realignment of the Up Salford Fast just outside Victoria from the set of arches it's been on to the northernmost set which had no track till now? It doesn't seem to provide a better curve, and the whole layout is only 25 here in any case.

 

[Viscount702]

Does anyone know the reason for the realignment of the Up Salford Fast just outside Victoria from the set of arches it's been on to the northernmost set which had no track till now? It doesn't seem to provide a better curve, and the whole layout is only 25 here in any case.

I am also interested to know and have asked the same question on SSC

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does anyone know the reason for the realignment of the Up Salford Fast just outside Victoria from the set of arches it's been on to the northernmost set which had no track till now? It doesn't seem to provide a better curve, and the whole layout is only 25 here in any case.

I am also interested to know and have asked the same question on SSC

See Joseph Locke's reply to my query on #2562.

 

[LDECRexile]

All this about how the new chord will look is very fine, but what I really meant was the visualization of the other side of the viaduct, through the disused platforms at Salford Central!

Oh.

This was addressed last Summer and repeated a few weeks ago. I've too much on at the moment to dig it out again, but its one here or Man-Liv somewhere.

 

[Viscount702]

See Joseph Locke's reply to my query on #2562.

Unfortunately that doesn't answer the question.

My own thoughts were the line was being rerouted to allow the ladder crossover to go across all four lines but that is clearly not the case as the ladder stops at the line serving platform 5. That being so the reason for the rerouting is unclear.

 

[Senex]

Unfortunately that doesn't answer the question.

My own thoughts were the line was being rerouted to allow the ladder crossover to go across all four lines but that is clearly not the case as the ladder stops at the line serving platform 5. That being so the reason for the rerouting is unclear.

Exactly! Joseph Locke tells us what is being done but not why it is being done, and in this case it is the why that particularly interests me. This realignment of a very short section of the Up Salford Fast seems to have nothing at all to do with the new ladder but rather just to shift the line to a different set of bridges and perhaps to ease the curvature a little. But if the general speed is to remain at 25, then what is achieved by this?

 

[edwin_m]

The signal spacing between Victoria and Salford is designed for a higher speed - can't remember exactly how much but maybe 40. Perhaps this is now going to be implemented?

 

[snowball]

Oh.
This was addressed last Summer and repeated a few weeks ago. I've too much on at the moment to dig it out again, but its one here or Man-Liv somewhere.

You may have in mind posts 5007-5018 on pages 334-335 of the Manchester-Liverpool electrification thread. Here's a link to the top of page 334:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60290&page=334

 

[Geeves]

The signal spacing between Victoria and Salford is designed for a higher speed - can't remember exactly how much but maybe 40. Perhaps this is now going to be implemented?

Seeing as the majority of trains will either have restarted from Salford Central, be waiting to enter Victoria at the next signal or be accelerating back of out of Vic towards I am wondering if it would even be possible to reach 40?

Having had a look today the reason is still a mystery to me. There was previously a pretty steep and sudden drop on the entrance to 6 that seems to have been flattened though though it never seemed an issue for the last 25 odd years since it was relayed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Seeing as the majority of trains will either have restarted from Salford Central, be waiting to enter Victoria at the next signal or be accelerating back of out of Vic towards I am wondering if it would even be possible to reach 40?

Somewhere, I've seen a statement that NR were planning for a consistent 30mph throughout the Castlefield corridor and Ordsall Chord.
It would make sense if that carried through to Victoria - currently 25mph on the approach viaducts.
It's not a lot, but the increase maybe lifts capacity enough for all the new services to run.

 

[Senex]

Somewhere, I've seen a statement that NR were planning for a consistent 30mph throughout the Castlefield corridor and Ordsall Chord.
It would make sense if that carried through to Victoria - currently 25mph on the approach viaducts.
It's not a lot, but the increase maybe lifts capacity enough for all the new services to run.

I'm sure I've seen that too -- alignments all planned for 35, but with the aim of actually allowing a consistent 30. Was it somewhere in all the documents submitted for the Chord enquiry?

 

[snowball]

For those discussing the track layout there are detailed track-level plans among the Chord plans here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ord\Volume 2 - Drawings\1) Planning Drawings

However they are subject to some provisos:

1. They don't get very close to Victoria - they stop at Blackfriars Road.

2. They don't show the proposed new or reinstated platforms at Salford Central, which are a separately funded project, though hopefully being built simultaneously. They do show track alignments consistent with the new platforms.

3. They may not reflect the latest details of switch and crossing locations (which I imagine NR were allowed to change after submission of the Chord application).

 

[Hophead]

With the caveat that I am unfamiliar with the new layout (and, indeed, the final one as well)....


Is it possible that this is just a temporary realignment, to facilitate rebuilding where the rails have been taken up? This sort of thing has been going on fairly frequently on the approaches to London Bridge for a few years now.

 

[Greybeard33]

Does anyone know the reason for the realignment of the Up Salford Fast just outside Victoria from the set of arches it's been on to the northernmost set which had no track till now? It doesn't seem to provide a better curve, and the whole layout is only 25 here in any case.

Joseph_Locke has now posted the following explanation over on SSC:

The Up Salford Fast (p6) is re-routed to avoid having to reconstruct the bridge deck it (until recently) sat on - rerouting is cheaper.

 

[Inox]

I think the Chorley Tunnel TSR has been lifted.

We just steamed through there at full whack.

 

[PDG1949]

Recently posted this on the Ordsall Chord thread, but in view of the current discussion it might be worthwhile posting here as well
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if this might've appeared before, but found site which gives the official NR Chord plans superimposed on Google Maps

http://cleveret.net/stuff/ordsallchordoverlay.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Two more new bases went in this week ... sadly I know not where!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Two more new bases went in this week ... sadly I know not where!

I'll tell you on Monday (maybe!).

 

[LDECRexile]

Two more new bases went in this week ... sadly I know not where!

Yippee!

I'd better wipe the Progressometer down with an oily rag.

Happy hunting LNW!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yippee!

I'd better wipe the Progressometer down with an oily rag.

Happy hunting LNW!

Hey Dave I may be able to help on this. Because traffic is getting crazy on the M6/61/60/56 I will be doing quite a few Manchester Airport -Prestons etc.

I used to absolutely love opening the progressometer and seein scrapes, bases, masts, dangly bits, TGBUs on the Manchester -Liverpool etc. I also drive quite abit when home to Blackpool - usually via Salwick, Kirkham etc. so should be able top help.

 

[LDECRexile]

Hey Dave I may be able to help on this. Because traffic is getting crazy on the M6/61/60/56 I will be doing quite a few Manchester Airport -Prestons etc.

I used to absolutely love opening the progressometer and seein scrapes, bases, masts, dangly bits, TGBUs on the Manchester -Liverpool etc. I also drive quite abit when home to Blackpool - usually via Salwick, Kirkham etc. so should be able top help.

Splendid, hope we'll meet up, too.

I've dusted off the Progressometer, updated it as best I can and attach it below. Corrections invited, eg I think it under-reports the bases on the Windsor Link.

 

[QueensCurve]

Originally Posted by Joseph_Locke
That's prep work for the Ordsall Chord, which removes the northernmost scissors crossover, re-routes platform 6 line (you can see the new OLE structures) and provides a new crossover ladder. The closure of Salford Central and Vic from 25/3 to 4/4 should see all that work done, just leaves remodelling of Central, the Chord itself and the new junction at Water Street to do ... subject to the failure of Mark Whitby's appeal against the judicial review into the Inspector's conclusions on the TWAO!

Thank you for providing this information.

Is there any URL where we can see the before and after track layouts. A picture as they say...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Noticed this myself a couple of days ago.

Then again, Manchester to Wigan North Western is set to be electrified

While any electrification is welcome, I am not sure I see the value to this since the passenger services go mainly to Walgate/Soutbport/Kirkby all of which are set to dip out on electrification.

 

[LDECRexile]

While any electrification is welcome, I am not sure I see the value to this since the passenger services go mainly to Walgate/Soutbport/Kirkby all of which are set to dip out on electrification.

I read somewhere that electrifying Lostock to Wigan NW was 1. to provide an electrified diversionary and alternative route from Manchester to Preston and 2. to enable (some) Wigan Wallgate terminating services to be transferred to the NW station.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I read somewhere that electrifying Lostock to Wigan NW was 1. to provide an electrified diversionary and alternative route from Manchester to Preston and 2. to enable (some) Wigan Wallgate terminating services to be transferred to the NW station.

Correct in all regards; impeccably summarised as ever!

 

[LDECRexile]

Correct in all regards; impeccably summarised as ever!

Thank you.

This afternoon I had an unexpected chance to go to Salford to see progress at Middlewood Viaduct. It seemed to be done and dusted, but maybe we should wait to see if trains resume in the morning.

New photos in the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Two more new bases went in this week ... sadly I know not where!

The new bases, 6 in all, are either side of Buckshaw Parkway.
There are 4 on the Down towards Chorley, and 1 towards Euxton.
Just 1 on the Up, towards Chorley.
These are the first bases west of Chorley Tunnel.
No change elsewhere, except for a bit more yellow paint at future mast sites.

 

[LDECRexile]

The new bases, 6 in all, are either side of Buckshaw Parkway.
There are 4 on the Down towards Chorley, and 1 towards Euxton.
Just 1 on the Up, towards Chorley.
These are the first bases west of Chorley Tunnel.
No change elsewhere, except for a bit more yellow paint at future mast sites.

Yo!

Regret that it'll be Weds before I can update the Progressometer.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Paul and I went to Buckshaw Parkway via Bolton yesterday to photograph the bases etc which LNW-GW reported on Monday.

I've added Paul's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381

and our combined efforts to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

It was great to see first shoots all around, both literally and metaphorically.

Go for it Carrillion.

No progress was visible on any of the foot crossings north of Bolton, nor was there any on the crossings south of Bolton when I passed a fortnight ago.

 

[snowball]

Signs saying "Your next stop is?" as in 5776c have been discussed in another thread. They're sometimes used when trains on a route have different stopping patterns. The idea is that they encourage a driver to think about where his or her next stop should be when leaving the previous stop, thereby reducing the chance of accidentally missed or inserted stops.

 

[QueensCurve]

Thank you.

This afternoon I had an unexpected chance to go to Salford to see progress at Middlewood Viaduct. It seemed to be done and dusted, but maybe we should wait to see if trains resume in the morning.

New photos in the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633

2 Questions:

1. What are the "down Bolton" posts?
2. What is the "do you know your next stop for?

 

[snowball]

What are the "down Bolton" posts?

Presumably locations of proposed electrification masts.

What is the "do you know your next stop for?

See the post above yours.