Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[WatcherZero]

Those pics show the current operational tunnel like the "mousehole" it is.

Will be, isn't this tunnel wider than Crossrail the previous widest tunnel?

 

[edwin_m]

There are some double track tunnels on HS1 which I expect would be wider.

 

[CAF397]

Trains running through the new tunnel by the end of November then?
Fits in nicely with the 13 December timetable change.
NR and the contractors deserve considerable praise for overcoming the problems and limiting the delay in completion.

Just to stick a spanner in the works, to reconnect the tracks either end of the tunnel, and restore the signalling would take another full blockade of 4-5 days.

Thing is, if the tunnel is ready by the end of November, Network Rail and the TOCs maybe reluctant to do it in the run up to christmas, when weekends are almost as busy as weekdays.

Probably a lot of contractors earning money during the Christmas shutdown, and between Christmas and new year!

 

[furnessvale]

Just to stick a spanner in the works, to reconnect the tracks either end of the tunnel, and restore the signalling would take another full blockade of 4-5 days.

Thing is, if the tunnel is ready by the end of November, Network Rail and the TOCs maybe reluctant to do it in the run up to christmas, when weekends are almost as busy as weekdays.

Probably a lot of contractors earning money during the Christmas shutdown, and between Christmas and new year!

Maybe they will do things in two stages, ie reconnect the up line through the new tunnel and in a separate possession, transfer the down?

 

[snowball]

As luck would have it I'm watching a programme on BBC4 about battlefield tunnelling in WWI.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just to stick a spanner in the works, to reconnect the tracks either end of the tunnel, and restore the signalling would take another full blockade of 4-5 days.

Maybe they will do things in two stages, ie reconnect the up line through the new tunnel and in a separate possession, transfer the down?

They could surely tie in the up line during night-time possessions with minimum interference to operations. Then, if it wasn't for signalling issues, they could clip and scotch the temporary crossovers out of use and run up trains through the enlarged bore and down ones through the mousehole until the turn of the year.

Except that I think Joseph has said that recongfiguring the signalling is the main issue

 

[Joseph_Locke]

They could surely tie in the up line during night-time possessions with minimum interference to operations. Then, if it wasn't for signalling issues, they could clip and scotch the temporary crossovers out of use and run up trains through the enlarged bore and down ones through the mousehole until the turn of the year.

Except that I think Joseph has said that recongfiguring the signalling is the main issue

I believe the current plan is to revert to two-track operation through the new tunnel first (soon) and then recover the S&C later. This two-step plan is presumably being driven by resources such as trains and cranes.

 

[swt_passenger]

Will be, isn't this tunnel wider than Crossrail the previous widest tunnel?

I think Network Rail's PR was simply saying it was the largest tunnelling machine (shield) currently in use in UK.

As it is a double track tunnel it's sort of obvious that it will be bigger than the Crossrail TBMs used for a single track tunnel, I don't see any point in them making comparisons with Crossrail, the latter is a completely different sort of project.

 

[Howardh]

When Preston/Chorley/Bolton/Manchester ends up with fast electric spanking brand new refurbished second-hand stock; what will happen to the Bolton/Blackburn and Wigan lines?

Clearly they won't be electrified - but are there any plans to redouble the former line and run newer diesel stock on both?

Considering three lines run through Bolton and if those other two continue to run the oldest stock NR can find, then the odds are if you turn up at Trinity Street the next train will be as dirty and grimy diesels as they are now I suppose in a couple of years they won't be the nodding-donkeys so that's something.

Not much benefit there unless pax are prepared to wait in our luxury executive class waiting room on 1/2/3 for an electric to glide in!

 

[thealexweb]

When Preston/Chorley/Bolton/Manchester ends up with fast electric spanking brand new refurbished second-hand stock; what will happen to the Bolton/Blackburn and Wigan lines?

Clearly they won't be electrified - but are there any plans to redouble the former line and run newer diesel stock on both?

Considering three lines run through Bolton and if those other two continue to run the oldest stock NR can find, then the odds are if you turn up at Trinity Street the next train will be as dirty and grimy diesels as they are now I suppose in a couple of years they won't be the nodding-donkeys so that's something.

Not much benefit there unless pax are prepared to wait in our luxury executive class waiting room on 1/2/3 for an electric to glide in!

Lostock Junction to Wigan North Western electrification should still be happening. It was previously announced and approved. But you are correct, Phase 4 alone will not allow the introduction of a single extra Northern Rail EMU. The only route that was a possibility was Hazel Grove to Preston but for now at least that continues to Blackpool North.

 

[AM9]

When Preston/Chorley/Bolton/Manchester ends up with fast electric spanking brand new refurbished second-hand stock; what will happen to the Bolton/Blackburn and Wigan lines?

The 319s haven't changed hands since 1994 so they are no more second-hand than they were for over 80% of Thameslink's time with them.

Clearly they won't be electrified - but are there any plans to redouble the former line and run newer diesel stock on both?

Considering three lines run through Bolton and if those other two continue to run the oldest stock NR can find, then the odds are if you turn up at Trinity Street the next train will be as dirty and grimy diesels as they are now I suppose in a couple of years they won't be the nodding-donkeys so that's something. ...

Lines that are still unelectrified, (probably because of a low BCR) will have to use whatever is available from the RoSCos which is likely to include 142s until at least 2020. With the 319s releasing a significant number of existing DMUs, Northern Rail (or their successor) has a greater range and number of units from which to choose, which initially may include 142s & 150s. At least there will be less of an excuse for short forming.

 

[snowball]

are there any plans to redouble the former [Blackburn] line and run newer diesel stock on both?

Work was completed only a month or two ago to extend at both ends the stretch of double track through Darwen. It included rebuilding some bridges. I haven't heard of any further plans for redoubling on that route.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Incredibly there's nothing about the breakthrough on the Northern Programme Twitter feed despite the fact that there are new posts this morning.

Also nothing on the LNW press releases page.

 

[Howardh]

Thanks for the info - can you confirm that Bolton/Wigan will be electrified as alluded to above? Didn't think that was the case, so my mistake. If so then I would suggest it's another good reason to rebuild/relocate Lostock station so the Wigan line is serviced.

 

[snowball]

can you confirm that Bolton/Wigan will be electrified as alluded to above?

It was first announced in Dec 2013 but subject to qualifications. I seem to remember that full authorisation happened earlier this year. On that basis I suppose it could yet be axed in the Hendy review - except that it's shown as going ahead in this map which came with the "un-pausing" announcement on 30 Sep:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transpennine-and-midland-mainline-electrification-works-to-resume

 

[PDG1949]

Slightly off thread, but whilst doing some research on disused stations/lines, Dave/LDECRexile and myself found out that the Northern Office and Yard of Murphy's Civil Engineering Contractors occupies the space once taken by the old GCR Golborne North station and sidings

 

[CAF397]

It's possible that when Lostock Jn - Wigan gets wired, that Wigan Wallgate terminators will transfer to Wogan NW, to allow EMU operation from Wigan to Victoria & Stalybridge. That'll free up DMUs too. Preston-Hazel Grove will possibly go EMU when Chorley is finished, and maybe just leave Blackpool-Preston as a DMU shuttle pending wiring.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's possible that when Lostock Jn - Wigan gets wired, that Wigan Wallgate terminators will transfer to Wogan NW, to allow EMU operation from Wigan to Victoria & Stalybridge. That'll free up DMUs too. Preston-Hazel Grove will possibly go EMU when Chorley is finished, and maybe just leave Blackpool-Preston as a DMU shuttle pending wiring.

I know things were disrupted with Balfour-Beatty etc, but Preston - Blackpool is only supposed to be about 3 months behind Preston -Manchester anyway, so IMHO the above point is somewhat moot.

 

[LDECRexile]

Joe Callaghan has kindly sent some stills and a video from Sunday's brekthrough.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651953947345

I've added them, together with my own, to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

 

[CAF397]

I know things were disrupted with Balfour-Beatty etc, but Preston - Blackpool is only supposed to be about 3 months behind Preston -Manchester anyway, so IMHO the above point is somewhat moot.

There's major work remodelling Blackpool North and Kirkham that needs to be undertaken, various rumours state a 3-month blockade to perform. Apart from the bridge reconstructions done in 2012/2013 there has been no other work done as of yet between Blackpool and Preston.

As far as I know the blockade hasn't even been agreed, I think they wanted the period between the illuminations and the start of the Spring, but the council has objected because that would hit their Christmas period.

 

[Codville]

I thought that it was agreed that the blockade would start in Jan or Feb?

 

[ironstone11]

Joe Callaghan has kindly sent some stills and a video from Sunday's brekthrough.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651953947345

I've added them, together with my own, to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

Great stuff. Thank you Dave and Joe.

 

[snowball]

I thought that it was agreed that the blockade would start in Jan or Feb?

Jan 2017, I thought.


Brilliant videos and stills. Many thanks to those involved.

I wonder how Fillie's final position compared with the circular hole in the concrete portal? Some of the pictures make it seem as if she was a few inches to the right.

The views along Cemetery Road bridge suggest that much the same is happening to the parapets there as at Skew Bridge.

 

[LDECRexile]

Thank you to snowball and ironstone for your kind remarks and encouragement.

I thought the same about Cemetery Road and Skew Bridge parapets.

Re her alignment, it may be that Fillie's nose is sticking out by now. I definitely can't get along today, but am hopeful that I can tomorrow.

Wrinkley has put together four brilliant compilations of films from Sunday. Inevitably there's overlap with material already published, as we were within feet of each other throughout, but hey, how often does Fillie break through?!

I've added them to Wrinkley's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

I've put them in their correct chronological sequence, so you may find it easier to find them by looking in Wrinkley's album, where they appear first.

Thank you Wrinkley

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Jan 2017, I thought.


Brilliant videos and stills. Many thanks to those involved.

I wonder how Fillie's final position compared with the circular hole in the concrete portal? Some of the pictures make it seem as if she was a few inches to the right.

The views along Cemetery Road bridge suggest that much the same is happening to the parapets there as at Skew Bridge.

Agreed! Superb pics and videos. Utter silence from NR on the Twitter feed still I see... I'm going to pop over on the way home tonight and have a look for myself.

 

[Codville]

Must be Jan 2017 then, I've not seen Blackpool Gazette moaning about the planned blockade lately.

 

[snowball]

Utter silence from NR on the Twitter feed still I see.

Now has pics of the Mayor of Bolton opening Ladybridge Lane bridge but still nothing about Fillie!

Despite being a regular reader of the Twitter feed I'm not a registered Twitterer. Is there someone here who is? Can you tweet them to complain?

 

[Chrism20]

Must be Jan 2017 then, I've not seen Blackpool Gazette moaning about the planned blockade lately.

Early 2017 was what I was told when I asked at BPN a few months ago about the work.

Does anyone know if there are going to be Sunday closures on the line again this winter like there were at the start of the year? I'll be going to see my folks after Christmas and the buses were awful this year.

 

[snowball]

I don't know but I imagine the weekend closures were mostly for the bridgeworks, now mostly done.

 

[QueensCurve]

It's possible that when Lostock Jn - Wigan gets wired, that Wigan Wallgate terminators will transfer to Wogan NW, to allow EMU operation from Wigan to Victoria & Stalybridge. That'll free up DMUs too. Preston-Hazel Grove will possibly go EMU when Chorley is finished, and maybe just leave Blackpool-Preston as a DMU shuttle pending wiring.

I can't help but think that an opportunity was lost to concentrate all services on one station by moving the Wallgate platforms to the other side of the road and havving a common station entrance in between the two lines as at Perth/Stone etc.

 

[edwin_m]

Joe Callaghan has kindly sent some stills and a video from Sunday's brekthrough.

Is that what you get when Fillie has finished her cornflakes?

 

[snowball]

Where would Fillie's spoil have gone? Only 16500 cu m so not a vast quantity.