Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Whistler40145]

Snowball, that's reassuring to hear that.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are also issues (and delays) building with Balfour Beatty regarding CrossRail and there's a bit of interest in having them give up their work there too, whether or not that happens is anybody's guess at the moment, unless I'm behind the times on that, but the general consensus is BB are really not fit for purpose.

I seem to remember Balfour Beatty (or their antecedents) played a significant role in both the WCML and ECML electrification projects under BR.
They also have a big role in Crossrail (apart from the GW work).
They are not in good health as a business though, with sell-offs and profits warnings.

 

[ironstone11]

Does anyone know what the shiny vertical stripes on the concrete are in pictures like 4928h? I've seen them at many other sites too.

They are 'T' section grooves cast into the concrete and filled with polystyrene foam. i.e. 'T' section polystryrene strips are cast into the concrete as part of the formwork.

The grooves are used for attaching ties which are bonded into the stone external cladding. The polystyrene just gets crushed out of the way at the points the ties are fitted.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I seem to remember Balfour Beatty (or their antecedents) played a significant role in both the WCML and ECML electrification projects under BR.
They also have a big role in Crossrail (apart from the GW work).
They are not in good health as a business though, with sell-offs and profits warnings.

Yeah, they started life as cable manufacturer and wiring contractor British Insulated Callender's Cables (BICC). It was BICC that were responsible for much of the WCML and ECML electrification programs.

BICC bought an engineering business that was called Balfour Beatty, sold the cable manufacturing business and took the name of the Balfour Beatty subsidary as the old name didn't make much sense.

The company has become increasingly useless - corporate pride rather than common sense took over when Carillion wanted to merge with BB, and for some deeply unfathomable reason, Balfour Beatty decided to sell Parsons Brinckerhoff instead of merging with Carillion. They spent the Parsons sale proceeds to hand money back to shareholders increasingly exasperated by a listless, direction-less company.

Parsons Brinckerhoff (and Atkins) are the lead designers and integrators for the GWML electrification, and reports say they're becoming more useless and increasingly panic stricken, as I suspect WSP Global, Parsons' new owners, don't really want a massive bill for delays and general incompetence that's undoubtedly going to head their way (and probably Balfour Beatty's too).

That, amongst many other issues, hasn't helped with the GWML electrification, with engineers and talent moving (freely or otherwise) between companies as a result of the aborted merger, the Parsons sale and all of the resulting fallout, so you can see why we're not entirely keen on Network Rail being hammered for all of the problems on the GWML electrification. We can't do much when the principal contractors are being sold or thinking about merging with each other. Network Rail do have some blame to share, but I'd dump most of it at Balfour Beatty's door.

 

[ironstone11]

Yeah, they started life as cable manufacturer and wiring contractor British Insulated Callender's Cables (BICC). It was BICC that were responsible for much of the WCML and ECML electrification programs.

And GE. See this promotional film from around 1949

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Another component in the BR electrification schemes was Balfour Kilpatrick.
They were taken over or merged with BICC at some point.
Seemingly another group of skills that has vanished over the years.

 

[AM9]

And GE. See this promotional film from around 1949

It's interesting that the importance of independant support of each track's catenary was well understood in the 1940s. At 27:13 the commentary says:
"The mechanical independance of each road will be noticed. This complete independance was required to minimise the effect of failure on any one road."
I wonder who in the intervening period said that headspans were such a good idea? I'd wager that they weren't as interested in service reliability as they were with up front cash figures!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Another component in the BR electrification schemes was Balfour Kilpatrick.
They were taken over or merged with BICC at some point.
Seemingly another group of skills that has vanished over the years.

Just checking, it started life as James Kilpatrick & Son, it was taken over by Balfour Beatty becoming Balfour Kilpatrick. They'll have been responsible, I'd have thought, for subsurface cabling, transformer/feeder and switch gear installation, though would need to double check on that. That was their sort of area, anyway.

The skills that have vanished, whilst they would be useful, are also outdated - there's a lot of new equipment, new regulations and the suppliers have changed - no more GEC, ABB is Network Rail's preferred supplier these days, we've now got ATF feeding, and there's things like SCADA monitoring to consider.

And some of the skills we've lost, we're quite happy to have lost. I really don't think we're concerned that our OLE teams can't now stand at the top of a 30ft ladder wiring in droppers and registration arms, whilst their mate stands in the four foot next to an HST set heading for KGX.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60539035@N02/17039160120

 

[snowball]

They are 'T' section grooves cast into the concrete and filled with polystyrene foam. i.e. 'T' section polystryrene strips are cast into the concrete as part of the formwork.

The grooves are used for attaching ties which are bonded into the stone external cladding. The polystyrene just gets crushed out of the way at the points the ties are fitted.

Thanks for that!

 

[QueensCurve]

It's interesting that the importance of independant support of each track's catenary was well understood in the 1940s. At 27:13 the commentary says:
"The mechanical independance of each road will be noticed. This complete independance was required to minimise the effect of failure on any one road."
I wonder who in the intervening period said that headspans were such a good idea? I'd wager that they weren't as interested in service reliability as they were with up front cash figures!

The Germans seem to use headspans quite a bit and make them work. Pity we can't here. I have to say I am increasingly enamoured of Germany and dischuffed with Britain.

https://twitter.com/lilyslynch/status/637754547071492101/photo/1

 

[LDECRexile]

Paul and I toured Bolton's bridges yesterday. In the process we bumped into Wrinkley who was also out with camera in hand.

To cap it all ALX400 has kindly sent some shots.

I've added ALX400's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

I've added Paul's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381

and I've added Wrinkley's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

I've added them all, plus my own material, to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you Paul, ALX400 and Wrinkley.

 

[Darren R]

Paul and I toured Bolton's bridges yesterday. In the process we bumped into Wrinkley who was also out with camera in hand.

To cap it all ALX400 has kindly sent some shots.

I've added ALX400's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

I've added Paul's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381

and I've added Wrinkley's shots to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

I've added them all, plus my own material, to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you Paul, ALX400 and Wrinkley.

Yet more excellent photographs - thanks to all concerned.

The photographs showing the internal detail of the Soho Street bridge deck are fascinating! I couldn't help wonder where the girders were cast given the proximity of the Soho Street Foundary at the time of their construction.

Orlando Street bridge looks rather forlorn bereft of the (presumably) cast iron parapets with their distinctive decoration. Does anyone know what is to become of them? (I am assuming that they won't be reused as part of the new bridge.)

 

[snowball]

Orlando Street bridge looks rather forlorn bereft of the (presumably) cast iron parapets with their distinctive decoration. Does anyone know what is to become of them? (I am assuming that they won't be reused as part of the new bridge.)

I imagine they'll be scrapped - melted down for new steel. One of them looked broken in one of the videos.

Am I right in remembering that the normally-Bolton-bound line from Farnworth to Moses Gate, except in the immediate vicinity of Farnworth, has been in use for service trains every weekday (and engineering trains most Saturdays and Sundays) since the single line service was introduced in early May? So when were they planning to lower it at Moses Gate? And when were they going to relay and reballast it throughout that stretch? Or have they already?

Fillie's slow progress now seems likely to give them extra opportunities over the coming weeks and months but that can't have been the original plan.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Yet more excellent photographs - thanks to all concerned.

The photographs showing the internal detail of the Soho Street bridge deck are fascinating! I couldn't help wonder where the girders were cast given the proximity of the Soho Street Foundary at the time of their construction.

Orlando Street bridge looks rather forlorn bereft of the (presumably) cast iron parapets with their distinctive decoration. Does anyone know what is to become of them? (I am assuming that they won't be reused as part of the new bridge.)

New parapets will be provided - it's a completely different design of bridge which is going in, and there wouldn't be any easy way to reuse the existing parapets, in addition they would need to be increased in height to 1850mm in any case for the new parapet height regulations.

The new parapets will be mid-tan coloured (06D43) with coping and stiffeners in honeysuckle cream (08C31) to match relatively closely the existing bridge colour scheme.

 

[LDECRexile]

Thank you Darren_R, much appreciated.

Joe Callaghan has kindly sent three shots of today's (Bank Holiday Monday) work at Farnworth to re-realign (or is it re-re-realign?) the tracks.

The past and future northbound track has been reconnected to the track through the single line tunnel making it one heck of a wiggle round the end of the realigned platform.

I've added the shots to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651953947345

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

 

[snowball]

Joe Callaghan has kindly sent three shots of today's (Bank Holiday Monday) work at Farnworth to re-realign (or is it re-re-realign?) the tracks.

The past and future northbound track has been reconnected to the track through the single line tunnel making it one heck of a wiggle round the end of the realigned platform.

If Fillie had started and continued in accordance with the schedule that was circulated to local residents in June, she would have been more than three quarters of the way through by now, and we would have been beginning to look forward to a breakthrough.

The slewing that has now happened was probably originally planned to prepare for that by opening up the potential for them to connect the Manchester-bound track to a new track laid through the enlarged tunnel (subject to the demolition of Cemetery Road bridge which is due next weekend according to the circular).

However this does not resolve my questions in #1603.

 

[LDECRexile]

Joe remains acknowledged but answerless to his tweets to NR last week, asking after Fillie's progress.

This is disquieting.


Joe has sent a PS to his shots earlier today, including a photo of what looks like the dumper seen in some of Geeves's recent shots. Joe says it has been plying its trade back and forth to a spoil heap by the motorway all day. This at least shows that Madame is busy now.

I've added them to Joe's album and the Combined Volume as per the links in Post #1605.

Thank you Joe.

 

[Bullfield WEst]

Yet more excellent photographs - thanks to all concerned.

The photographs showing the internal detail of the Soho Street bridge deck are fascinating! I couldn't help wonder where the girders were cast given the proximity of the Soho Street Foundary at the time of their construction.

Orlando Street bridge looks rather forlorn bereft of the (presumably) cast iron parapets with their distinctive decoration. Does anyone know what is to become of them? (I am assuming that they won't be reused as part of the new bridge.)

The bridge construction reminds me of the "Undercroft" or Fairfield Street entrance to Piccadilly Station which has the same Brick semicircular ceilings.
They were attacking the Soho St bridge with a JCB mounted Jack Hammer as we left for Kirkby last Thursday. Didn't notice any falling debris

 

[Trackman]

If the Farnworth tunnel work is going to overrun, would it be better letting everyone know now rather than leaving it to the last minute, or would that just be negative press? I think customer expectations should come first, I know it's a busy route and many people rely on it.

 

[LDECRexile]

1. Joe has kindly sent this:

http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/The-Farnworth-FlyerIssue3.pdf

2. While on engineering works, the new Broom's Cross Link Road from the north end of the M57 has opened. This is a brand new, single carriageway road on a literal and metaphorical green field site.

1. The contractors had unlimited access to site, none of this Fri Midnight to Monday 05:00 stuff
2. No bridges were rebuilt
3. No tunnel was bored
4. No passing trains to avoid
5. No customers chafing

I was never able to find a target opening date, but the local paper, for what it's worth, was talking in Autumn 2014 of it being open by Christmas (2014).

It opened in August 2015. A large sign prominently states it was Balfour Beatty's work.

Those inclined to slag off Network Rail be careful what you wish for.

3. Paul drew my attention to the structure below in St Helens on Saturday....

 

[ironstone11]

Joe remains acknowledged but answerless to his tweets to NR last week, asking after Fillie's progress.

This is disquieting.
Joe says it (the dumper) has been plying its trade back and forth to a spoil heap by the motorway all day. This at least shows that Madame is busy now.

I wonder how frequently the dumper exits the tunnel. My estimates in Post #1538 would suggest that if the dumper is exiting with a load every 2 hours over a 24 hour period, then they should be tunnelling at a rate of about 4 metres per day. Not enough, but at least progress.

 

[Magicake]

I know it's not strictly relevant to the subject of this thread but just wanted to make a point regarding Balfours and the GWML.

There has been some speculation on this thread that the BB withdrawal from the northwest may be a precursor to them being sacked or withdrawing from their crossrail electrification. I don't believe that this will happen any time soon.

My understanding is that that contract has been awarded on a cost plus basis unlike the northwest work and so there is every incentive for BB to stay involved as long as possible as they are guaranteed a profit.

 

[snowball]

1. Joe has kindly sent this:

http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/The-Farnworth-FlyerIssue3.pdf

It's a little bit misleading that they keep referring to Fillie as the biggest TBM in the country. She's somewhat larger in diameter than the Crossrail ones because she's for a double track tunnel, but they, being rotary, are much longer, much heavier, and much more expensive.

Their typical rate of moving forward is also several times the rate Fillie was expected to achieve, let alone what she actually seems to be doing.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its also an entirely separate BB team rather than a single work group isn't it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I know it's not strictly relevant to the subject of this thread but just wanted to make a point regarding Balfours and the GWML.
My understanding is that that contract has been awarded on a cost plus basis unlike the northwest work and so there is every incentive for BB to stay involved as long as possible as they are guaranteed a profit.

Good for BB but not for the overall costs of the GW project!

 

[Geeves]

In regards to the dumpers, there are two of them, so while one is being loaded the other is at the top unloading so as soon as the other one is back to the top the next one can go down to take its place.

As I mentioned in my email to LDEC they are having quite a bit of trouble with pockets of bricks and sand from the previous dumping that was used as infill. Also they said it takes a while swap the heads over on the cutting arms depending on what they are attacking at the time.

Plenty of new new drainage on site too at Bolton station. Also a few squares drawn onto the ballast much like we saw drawn onto the platforms on the Manchester to Liverpool wiring showing where the new OHLE supports will be placed soon.

 

[snowball]

A tweet on the Northern Programme Twitter feed claims the platforms are being rebuilt at Farnworth, Moses Gate and Kearsley. I assume that's wrong?

https://twitter.com/networkrailnp

By the way, I don't think any of us congratulated NR on completing the Darwen doubling on time.

 

[ironstone11]

I wonder how frequently the dumper exits the tunnel. My estimates in Post #1538 would suggest that if the dumper is exiting with a load every 2 hours over a 24 hour period, then they should be tunnelling at a rate of about 4 metres per day. Not enough, but at least progress.

I notice the dumpers being used are Volvo A30E, which are slightly smaller than the type I had assumed. The heaped capacity is 17.5 cu metres, which works out at 3.5 loads per metre of tunnel bored.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

May I ask two related Dumbo questions?

I believe Fillie nudges along, one ring at a time.

1. Suppose the upper operator is digging away three feet or so ahead of her and the earth at the top of her face's circle changes to very loose; what is to stop it cascading down and leaving a void above, perhaps under the fast lane of the major road on top?

2. Suppose it does and this is not spotted, so Fillie places the next ring and nudges ahead, leaving a void above which subsequently collapses?

I hope the questions make sense.

I don't have a definitive answer, but if I were doing it I would nudge Fillie forward as soon as enough space was excavated to do so. i.e. if I had excavated 3", I would push her forward 3".

So I would have thought it is an almost continuous push forward process until 1.4 metres is reached so that another ring of lining segments can be placed.

Whether there is a retractable shield above the hydraulic pushing rams I don't know. There is obviously some risk of collapse here in the ring fitting section.

 

[snowball]

It's probably impossible to guarantee completely against tunnel collapses. A tunnel known locally as Black Harry collapsed with fatalities in the 1950s, only about four miles from Farnworth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Hall_Tunnel

I agree with ironstone that Fillie is probably meant to advance whenever she can, rather than waiting for a full ring width.

When a ring of segments has been installed, grout is injected under pressure through holes in the segments in the hope of filling any voids.

There are several tings I don't understand about the process, especially where the Rail Engineer article says "the build [of the rings from the segments] takes place within the tailskin". I don't see how that would allow the segments to be placed.

 

[ironstone11]

I notice the dumpers being used are Volvo A30E, which are slightly smaller than the type I had assumed. The heaped capacity is 17.5 cu metres, which works out at 3.5 loads per metre of tunnel bored.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I don't have a definitive answer, but if I were doing it I would nudge Fillie forward as soon as enough space was excavated to do so. i.e. if I had excavated 3", I would push her forward 3".

So I would have thought it is an almost continuous push forward process until 1.4 metres is reached so that another ring of lining segments can be placed.

Whether there is a retractable shield above the hydraulic pushing rams I don't know. There is obviously some risk of collapse here in the ring fitting section.

Although a different type of TBM, according to this video from Crossrail the lining segments are assembled within the shield. At least one lining ring is always within the shield.

I would expect Fillie to be be similar in this respect, so there is never any possibility a roof fall.