Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[LNW-GW Joint]

If these lines are contractually included in the NW programme, might it not make commercial sense for NR to proceed with them rather than renegotiate/cancel the contracts and re-tender them later? And the "synergies with ... power supplies" implies that the Stalybridge grid feeder station is needed to strengthen the NW power supplies post Blackpool-Manchester electrification, even without TP electrification.

As there isn't an NW contractor any more, I don't think anything is decided.

 

[Elecman]

Balfour Beatty chief executive Leo Quinn has described Network Rail as a “difficult” client and revealed the contractor could stop working with the body.

Quinn was speaking to investors as Balfour Beatty posted a £146M loss in its UK construction business for the six months to 26 June 2015.

He set out a range of measures the contractor was taking to turn its fortunes around, saying the losses were from contracts signed before he arrived in January.

Quinn said Network rail was “very, very difficult to work with” and that it was “very, very difficult to make a return” on its projects.

I assume he means that Network Rail is an informed client and won't roll over to extras on the contract or payment for non client delays!!

 

[LDECRexile]

Joe Callaghan and Wrinkley have kindly sent photos today.

I've added them to their albums here:

Joe:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651953947345

Wrinkley:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

I've added them all, plus a few of my own, to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe and Wrinkley.

 

[snowball]

4886i-m show that a pipe has been set up to feed air to Fillie's operators.

Some older pictures such as 4730e show a golden cylinder, looking like a jet engine, which I thought might be a pump awaiting connection to such a pipe.

The last time I saw a picture of such a cylinder (on the Metrolink Oldham town centre line) it turned out to be a heater to accelerate the curing of resin grout in cold weather. That one was gold too. I suppose it could be used as a fan without the heat.

Earlier reports said that the concrete infill to the tunnel would leave a walkway which would feed fresh air from the Farnworth end, but that plan seems to have been dropped.

 

[ironstone11]

4886i-m show that a pipe has been set up to feed air to Fillie's operators.

Earlier reports said that the concrete infill to the tunnel would leave a walkway which would feed fresh air from the Farnworth end, but that plan seems to have been dropped.

Yes, I remember seeing reference to or drawings of a walkway through the concrete infill.

How far do we think the cutting face has advanced into the tunnel? 20 metres?

 

[snowball]

How far do we think the cutting face has advanced into the tunnel? 20 metres?

Hard to say. It looks as though the whole of Fille, including all the stuff at the back seen in the cut-away drawing in this article, is now inside the tunnel, but only just. So if we had a figure for the machine's overall length, that would be a good indication of the progress, but I haven't seen a figure.

From the drawing 20m looks about right.

Oddly there's nothing about Fillie on Tunnel Engineering Services' website.

Edit: if it's really only 20m it means she's still only doing 1m a day --> 9 months!!

 

[Elecman]

The back end isn't connected to the front cutting head except by umbilicals for services and the spoil conveyor

 

[ironstone11]

From the drawing 20m looks about right.

Edit: if it's really only 20m it means she's still only doing 1m a day --> 9 months!!

It is of interest to consider the amount of material that needs to be shifted.

At a bored diameter of 8.8 metres the volume of material to be removed works out at 61 cu metres per metre bored.

A Volvo A400, which looks similar to the one used, carries 22.5 cu metres per heaped load.

Thus for every 1 metre bored, 2.7 dumper loads have to be removed.

With a tunnel length of 270 metres and 20 metres perhaps already bored this leaves 250 metres to go.

With say 60 days left, tunnelling needs to proceed at 4.2 metres per day equivalent to 11.3 dumper loads per day, say 1 load every 2 hours in a 24 hour day. (I think it is less than 60 days. I seem to remember a date of Oct 20 for a completed line.)

However the dumper doesn't have unrestricted access to the tunnel as a set if lining segments need to be delivered for every 1.4 metres bored.

Quite a challenge to achieve the required rate of progress.

 

[LDECRexile]

I've now received two fine sets of source material on the bridges between Farnworth Tunnel and Moses Gate.

The first is the piece in the L&YR Society Magazine No 264, pp12-13 helpfully cited recently. The second is a definitive list of the bridges' names and numbers as used by the railways.

To take the latter first, the current bridges are, from south to north:

(Farnworth Tunnel, then)
MVE1/42 Cemetery Road
blank (no MVE1/43, perhaps a station footbridge long demolished?)
MVE1/44 Phythians FB (the footbridge off the northern end of Farnworth Station)
MVE1/45 Rawson Street
MVE1/46 Bentley's (the balustraded bridge)
MVE1/47 Devon Street FB (aka Squeeze Belly Entry, aka The Humpback Bridge)
MVE1/48 A6053 Bolton Road

The wording and spellings are as per railway usage. The wording in italics is mine.

The L&YR Society article consists of letters to the editor about MVE1/46 the balustraded bridge, of which a photo had appeared in a previous edition.

To summarise two full pages of fascinating and detailed research, much to original sources: 1. no-one knows why the bridge was built in the style it was, except the general point that at the time of construction the land was open estate land, utterly unlike today's urban environment. Local landowners could exercise quite an input into what was built, 2. the weathered creature on the southern keystone is a Lion Rampant, the heraldic device of the Hulton family. The Darley estate originally formed part of the Hulton estate. 3. The (decidedly unweathered, relatively modern-looking) B I E on the northern keystone has everyone stumped. Personally I suggest anyone interested in this industrial archaeology might pursue the 'B' being to do with Bentley, as the bridge is Bentley's to railwaymen and was 'Bentley's Occupation Bridge' in the 1850s.

MVE1/46 is Listed Grade 2 by English Heritage, ID 210495.

The article also refers to MVE1/44 as 'Phydian's Bridge' as opposed to the railway's Phythian. I leave it to classicists to fight that one out.

 

[snowball]

(I seem to remember a date of Oct 20 for a completed line.)

The publicly announced date for restoration of a full service, requiring two operational tracks with signalling, is Monday 5th October.

Once boring is complete, they will have to get Fillie out of the way, dump earth in the tunnel to bring the floor up to the required level, compact it, lay ballast and tracks and any other equipment required, tie in the tracks at the ends, remove the temporary crossovers (or at least clip and scotch them), and install and test the permanent signalling (or reinstate and test the old signalling).

At the time the notice in (e.g.) #1503 was prepared, boring was expected to run from 22 July to 8 Sep.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've now received two fine sets of source material on the bridges between Farnworth Tunnel and Moses Gate.

In addition to these, I believe that until relatively recent times there was a building spanning the tracks at Moses Gate station, on a separate structure immediately on the Bolton side of the existing Bolton Road bridge. It's prominent in the photograph illustrating the Wikipedia page on the station. Whether it had its own bridge number I don't know.

MVE1/46 is Listed Grade 2 by English Heritage, ID 210495.

That ought to be enough to get the fencing inside the balustrades replaced by something better looking and more imaginative.

 

[ironstone11]

The publicly announced date for restoration of a full service, requiring two operational tracks with signalling, is Monday 5th October.

That suggests a dramatic increase in tunnelling rate.

Is it known whether it will be ballasted track in the tunnel or slab track? Either way it will take additional time over and above tunnelling.

I noticed they had several VIP visits last week(s). In my experience there is nothing worse than a VIP visit for delaying progress!

 

[snowball]

Is it known whether it will be ballasted track in the tunnel or slab track? Either way it will take additional time over and above tunnelling.

I don't know, but as I said when somebody else asked, my guess is that it will be ballasted, as I think they only use slab track in tunnels if they're short of space, and in this case they've presumably designed an adequate diameter so that they aren't short of space. Also the circular profile means they'll have to build up the level before the ballast stage.

 

[Darren R]

In addition to these, I believe that until relatively recent times there was a building spanning the tracks at Moses Gate station, on a separate structure immediately on the Bolton side of the existing Bolton Road bridge. It's prominent in the photograph illustrating the Wikipedia page on the station. Whether it had its own bridge number I don't know.

The station building at Moses Gate was a seperate bridge, at right-angles to the track and therefore at an acute angle to the road outside. It used to be bridge number 49.

The missing bridge number 43 was the station footbridge at Farnworth.

(Pic: http://www.boltonmuseums.org.uk/collections/item/2131?subjectId=5)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I have done the maths - it cant be done.

 

[LDECRexile]

Bill Morton has kindly sent four photos of encouraging progress at Grimeford Lane bridge.

I've added them to Bill's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157650900509369

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Bill has also made enquiries about Balshaw Fields Level Crossing in Adlington, which has been closed for ages with no sign of action. He has received this reply:

Subject: Temporary closure FP5 Adlington

I refer to your enquiry regarding the temporary closure on FP5
Adlington, the current closure is to be extended until 31st October
2015. Network rail are currently looking into a permanent solution at
this crossing point. An application process is currently ongoing.

Regards
Lynda Horrocks
Public Right of Way Assistant
Public Rights of Way Department
Lancashire County Council

Thank you Bill

 

[snowball]

Bill has also made enquiries about Balshaw Fields Level Crossing in Adlington, which has been closed for ages with no sign of action. He has received this reply:

I refer to your enquiry regarding the temporary closure on FP5
Adlington, the current closure is to be extended until 31st October
2015. Network rail are currently looking into a permanent solution at
this crossing point. An application process is currently ongoing.

That sounds as though it may be the subject of a planning application, which may or may not have yet been submitted. Is it in the Chorley BC area? Their planning search page is here but I can't find anything:

https://planning.chorley.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application

 

[edwin_m]

I don't know, but as I said when somebody else asked, my guess is that it will be ballasted, as I think they only use slab track in tunnels if they're short of space, and in this case they've presumably designed an adequate diameter so that they aren't short of space. Also the circular profile means they'll have to build up the level before the ballast stage.

This isn't a rotary tunnel boring machine, it's more like the old tunneling shield but with mechanical diggers instead of navvies removing the material from inside it. So the cross-section doesn't have to be circular, although I imagine there would have to be some sort of foundation to keep the walls and track in place.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

This isn't a rotary tunnel boring machine, it's more like the old tunneling shield but with mechanical diggers instead of navvies removing the material from inside it. So the cross-section doesn't have to be circular, although I imagine there would have to be some sort of foundation to keep the walls and track in place.

You don't really want to use anything other than a straight forward circular bore lined with concrete rings made from interlocking concrete segments.

Circular bores are much stronger and when the concrete rings are fitted, provide a nice uniform point on which to propel the TBM or shield forward.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

That sounds as though it may be the subject of a planning application, which may or may not have yet been submitted. Is it in the Chorley BC area? Their planning search page is here but I can't find anything:

https://planning.chorley.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application

Yes, soon ... but not yet.

 

[ironstone11]

This isn't a rotary tunnel boring machine, it's more like the old tunneling shield but with mechanical diggers instead of navvies removing the material from inside it. So the cross-section doesn't have to be circular,...

I believe it does have to be circular to give the stuctural integrity of a tube formed by the concrete lining segments. It also has to have a complete ring of segments for the machine to push against at it advances, thus giving directional control in three dimensions.

So the full 8.8 metre diameter has to be excavated. Some of the pictures of Fillie before it entered the tunnel show lining segments in the lower quadrant.

 

[Class 170101]

Words fail me, they really do.

Sadly I am not surprised. The parts of Network Rail I deal with don't exactly fill me with confidence.

 

[froggy9]

That sounds as though it may be the subject of a planning application, which may or may not have yet been submitted. Is it in the Chorley BC area? Their planning search page is here but I can't find anything:

https://planning.chorley.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application

No planning application yet. I understand that Chorley Council have agreed to sell them some land on condition that it is for construction of a footbridge.

 

[snowball]

Further to the discussion on circularity and concrete segments, a circular profile is the only way to have all the segments identical, so you don't have to worry about using the right ones in the right places.

And if they're identical, you can stagger the segment joints in successive rings, like the joints in successive courses of bricks:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMwNWOyUwAM6rYt.jpg

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Further to the discussion on circularity and concrete segments, a circular profile is the only way to have all the segments identical, so you don't have to worry about using the right ones in the right places.

And if they're identical, you can stagger the segment joints in successive rings, like the joints in successive courses of bricks:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMwNWOyUwAM6rYt.jpg

CrossRail, as the tunnels aren't straight and have passages, did need to have rings assembled in sets, and in the correct sequence. The rings and segments weren't entirely interchangeable.

 

[LDECRexile]

ALX400 has kindly sent four shots of work on the Skew Bridge.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

Wrinkley has kindly sent shots of Ladybridge and Dean Clough Bridge.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

Wrinkley also adds this about Lostock Footbridge:

Lostock footbridge – This is still fenced off and locked, but it must be near completion as the cabin and the rubber mats on the footpath have disappeared. No photos, there was a cloudburst and I had to run for cover, but I still got soaked.

The things we do for art, science and the furtherance of knowledge!

I've also wanged all these shots onto the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you to both ALX400 and Wrinkley.


As an interested layman I really appreciate being able to learn from discussions such as the one above on circular rings, thank you to all who give of their time and expertise in this way.

 

[snowball]

CrossRail, as the tunnels aren't straight and have passages, did need to have rings assembled in sets, and in the correct sequence. The rings and segments weren't entirely interchangeable.

I was forgetting curvature of the line of the tunnel. Farnworth is on at least a horizontal curve. I don't know whether the radius is large enough for the design of the segments to ignore it. Probably not.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

ALX400 has kindly sent four shots of work on the Skew Bridge.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651121057352

Wrinkley has kindly sent shots of Ladybridge and Dean Clough Bridge.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234

Wrinkley also adds this about Lostock Footbridge:

Lostock footbridge – This is still fenced off and locked, but it must be near completion as the cabin and the rubber mats on the footpath have disappeared. No photos, there was a cloudburst and I had to run for cover, but I still got soaked.

The things we do for art, science and the furtherance of knowledge!

I've also wanged all these shots onto the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

Thank you to both ALX400 and Wrinkley.


As an interested layman I really appreciate being able to learn from discussions such as the one above on circular rings, thank you to all who give of their time and expertise in this way.

The Skew Bridge issue - don't know for certain, but a couple of the rebuilt bridges on the EGIP electrification scheme in Scotland are having similar parapet remedial work, and it's thanks to the EU rule concerning parapet height for bridges crossing electrified railways.

The previous standard was 1.5m and this has been increased to 1.8m, but several of the earlier bridges were built to the previous standard. I believe but can't confirm at this time of night, the issue only impacts new electrification projects, i.e a 1.5m bridge can be altered in due course on an existing route, but a new route can't be commissioned with any 1.5m bridge parapets.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

From the drawing 20m looks about right.
Edit: if it's really only 20m it means she's still only doing 1m a day --> 9 months!!

With a tunnel length of 270 metres and 20 metres perhaps already bored this leaves 250 metres to go.

The publicly announced date for restoration of a full service, requiring two operational tracks with signalling, is Monday 5th October.

Once boring is complete, they will have to get Fillie out of the way, dump earth in the tunnel to bring the floor up to the required level, compact it, lay ballast and tracks and any other equipment required, tie in the tracks at the ends, remove the temporary crossovers (or at least clip and scotch them), and install and test the permanent signalling (or reinstate and test the old signalling).

At the time the notice in (e.g.) #1503 was prepared, boring was expected to run from 22 July to 8 Sep.

Lets be generous and say they can finish tunneling On Sept 30th. Let us also say they are upto 30m in other words 240m to go. That is 38 days left. They must achieve 6-7m per day continously or we are in yet another overun which I just do not even want to think about.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Sadly I am not surprised. The parts of Network Rail I deal with don't exactly fill me with confidence.

Words fail me as to how BB can describe NR as "difficult". NR are top-flight by comparison ...

 

[edwin_m]

Words fail me as to how BB can describe NR as "difficult". NR are top-flight by comparison ...

Sounds like the classic non-meeting of minds.