Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Darren R]

I thought the redundant bore at Farnworth was to be overspill storage for the Strategic Steam Reserve?

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps it ought to be converted to a shooting range - small bore rifles, naturally.

 

[LDECRexile]

A proposal by the British Pig Breeders Association is to use it to nurture young breeding males.
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Joe Callaghan has kindly sent a shot of track laying between Farnworth and Moses Gate.

I've added it to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

 

[thealexweb]

A proposal by the British Pig Breeders Association is to use it to nurture young breeding males.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Joe Callaghan has kindly sent a shot of track laying between Farnworth and Moses Gate.

I've added it to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

Is this track relaying being done as part of the goal for 100mph running?

 

[Whistler40145]

I would hope so.

I'm sure someone will know more about it than me.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I would hope so.

I'm sure someone will know more about it than me.

That bit will eventually be 100mph (albeit an MU differential) but the work on this line is actually part of the electrification clearance work.

Working back up the thread, Farnworth Down bore will still have the main cable route in it so it will be fitted with some beautiful steel gates and just left - the new spray concrete lining should last 50 or 60 years!

Balfour Beatty seem (according the industry buzz) to have walked before they were pushed. All else is rumour, but the postponement of the Midland Main Line and Transpennine East electrification projects means that both Carillion and VolkerRail are now have spare OLE resources ...

BB were only doing the OLE, they are not involved in Farnworth Tunnel (which is Buckingham Group, Murphy and Amey, assisted by Tony Gee and Partners, Mott MacDonald, Atkins, Siemens and Babcock).

 

[snowball]

Possibly the wrong thread but it's good to catch JL when he's being talkative.

Can we be confident that the "pause" on TP electrification doesn't include NW phase 5, Stalybridge?

 

[Elecman]

Manchester -Preston, Preston-Blackpool, have BB walked from both these schemes? Is so the timescale for Mcr-Preston must be in doubt as NR will have to re tender the work via an European Journal advert which is seriously time consuming !

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Manchester -Preston, Preston-Blackpool, have BB walked from both these schemes? Is so the timescale for Mcr-Preston must be in doubt as NR will have to re tender the work via an European Journal advert which is seriously time consuming !

NR already has a set of pre-qualified electrification contractors as a result of the frame agreements awarded last year.

Six geographic framework contracts have been awarded, with each having a defined ‘workbank’ of schemes to be delivered.
This approach has been endorsed by the supply chain and industry groups such as the Railway Industry Association, said Network Rail..
The companies involved are Balfour Beatty, AmeyInabensa, CarillionPowerlines and ABC Electrification

I should think they will re-award NW to one of the others, who will hopefully pick up the local resources.
However, if BB were losing money, it might not be too easy to close a deal with anyone without the cost going up.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Possibly the wrong thread but it's good to catch JL when he's being talkative.

Can we be confident that the "pause" on TP electrification doesn't include NW phase 5, Stalybridge?

Positively garrulous!

TransPennine East (Stalyvegas to Leeds) being delayed will have no negative effect on TransPennine West (Victoria to Stalyvegas, aka Phase 5) as Phase 5 is building the new Grid Feeder station for Northern Hub. TpE E was already off in the 2020s before last week's admission / announcement.

There may be (as I observed earlier) a positive effect: sadly, I haven't heard from enough reliable sources to confirm what effect (if any) the imminent departure of BB from the project will have on programme; however, since phases 3 and 5 (Blackpool and Stalybridge) were due to follow-on from Phase 4, then any delay to construction of 4 will delay 3 and 5 if only one contractor is used.

As far as I am aware phase 3, 4 and 5 were all one OLE contract, with BB.

Phases 6 (Windermere) and 7 (Lostock Wigan) have yet to be let, but that may now change as well

I know it's irritating for me to hint but there is more going on than I can currently report on here, but as soon as opportunity presents I'll try and explain further.

 

[Whistler40145]

So watch this space for further information.

 

[WatcherZero]

So they may be planning to Blitz the North West, throwing more resources that would have been used in the North East or Midlands to complete it on time. That sounds promising though I imagine a large portion of resources would be diverted to keeping Great Western on track.

 

[Trackman]

I've added it to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

Great pics!
Why is this signal on caution? I think it's the northbound signal just after the Darley bridge. could be a trick of the light?
Visiting the area next week

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/19026428239/in/album-72157648767927083/

 

[deltic08]

No wonder rail projects are over budget when all companies involved want a cut. Surely one company doing everything would be cheaper because there must be some overlapping duplication of resources and manpower?

 

[edwin_m]

Not all companies have the same experience and capabilities. For example in that list the first three are civil engineering constructors of various types, the next three are civils designers and the last two systems engineers.

 

[Whistler40145]

Is it more economical for contractors to be used versus Network Rail employing their own engineers?

 

[deltic08]

Is it more economical for contractors to be used versus Network Rail employing their own engineers?

I understand NR have to contract out as they do not have inhouse facilities, but there must be duplication of expertise, and cost, by employing more than one company?

 

[edwin_m]

If NR advertises a job as a single contract, then main contractors may need to employ subcontractors to cover the work they can't do in house. Obviously the main contractor wouldn't do that if they thought they could do everything in house, as they could offer a lower price (so have more chance of getting the work) and keep all the profits for themselves.

Sometimes NR will let separate contracts for different parts of the work, because they need to keep control over the interfaces. This might apply for example to the signalling part of the work, because most civils contractors would struggle to manage a signalling contractor. There are also various alliancing models which are intended to encourage everyone to work together to avoid and solve problems rather than focusing on who gets the blame when they happen.

 

[Whistler40145]

Most informative, thanks very much.

 

[snowball]

Deleted

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Not all companies have the same experience and capabilities. For example in that list the first three are civil engineering constructors of various types, the next three are civils designers and the last two systems engineers.

Actually, the last one is doing the signalling installation.
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I understand NR have to contract out as they do not have inhouse facilities, but there must be duplication of expertise, and cost, by employing more than one company?

All those listed do have multiple contracts across the country, and not just with NR, so the whole of Murphy, Siemens, Atkins, TGP, Mott MacDonald, etc. (which would be in excess of 100,000 people) are not all booking to one job!

Some delivery contractors have long-standing working relationships with design houses so they stick together, and sometimes resources are tight causing a small piece of work being contracted to yet another company. The Farnworth list wasn't exhaustive; there are at least four other largish companies involved, and a lot of the station fit out will involve even more subcontractors, without even beginning to list suppliers of excavators, telehandlers, portabogs, etc. This is nothing unusual in construction, where there can be four or five layers of subcontractors under the main contractor.


Farnworth is not the best example though, as it also involves two separate funding streams within NR as well (long story).

 

[LDECRexile]

Joe Callaghan has sent two more topical shots of progress at Farnworth. I share his puzzlement over the kink which seems to have moved since last weekend.

I've added them to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Joe Callaghan has sent two more topical shots of progress at Farnworth. I share his puzzlement over the kink which seems to have moved since last weekend.

4456i - that's a very interesting shot of the new Up platform face at Farnworth.
It shows how much realignment is going to be necessary to get both tracks through the enlarged tunnel.
Similarly with the southern end of the tunnel in 4338s.
Splendid stuff.

 

[LDECRexile]

Bill Morton has kindly sent two shots of the Skew Bridge at Heath Charnock.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650900509369

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083

Thank you Bill.

 

[LeylandLen]

Being an occasional user of the line and taking an interest in whats going on , Id like to know if work at Farnworth goes on around the clock ? I notice from some good pics just how close to the line are the houses. I hope they can sleep easily! No doubt there is noise during the day;cant be nice sitting outside now that we have summer ! No doubt when its all finished the values of property will rise ?? Also sad to hear about the death of Ian Allan at 93.He certainly helped to educate me in railways starting back in 1965 ish ..:cry:

 

[AM9]

Joe Callaghan has sent two more topical shots of progress at Farnworth. I share his puzzlement over the kink which seems to have moved since last weekend.

I've added them to Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651953947345

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083

Thank you Joe.

Dave, the kink in 4496M looks like it's the section of track shown in 4492M. That section looks like it's made up with steel, timber and concrete sleepers. Strange; maybe as a cost saving measure it was a demonstrator or sample, stolen from Railtex after the show.
As far as the kink when installed, although it's probably at the limit of misalignment, but final tensioning can pull joggles like that out, just look at the photos showing the third track near Roby whilst it was being laid. I don't remember it being like that when we did the line, my camcorder wouldn't have covered the shake from that in a 185 at 80+!

 

[LDECRexile]

Dave, the kink in 4496M looks like it's the section of track shown in 4492M. That section looks like it's made up with steel, timber and concrete sleepers. Strange; maybe as a cost saving measure it was a demonstrator or sample, stolen from Railtex after the show.
As far as the kink when installed, although it's probably at the limit of misalignment, but final tensioning can pull joggles like that out, just look at the photos showing the third track near Roby whilst it was being laid. I don't remember it being like that when we did the line, my camcorder wouldn't have covered the shake from that in a 185 at 80+!

Hello Steve

I agree it's the same length of track.

Looking at 4456n it seems that the kink has been moved from beyond the far bridge to between that bridge and the bridge the camera was on.

It looks more like a deliberate kink than wiggly, untamped track to me, but I know the square root of nowt.

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Viscount702]

As part of the rebuild of the platforms at Farnworth are they being lengthened and what will the new lengths be please.

 

[thealexweb]

As part of the rebuild of the platforms at Farnworth are they being lengthened and what will the new lengths be please.

It will be astounding if they aren't, given Network Rail had already made public desire the have them able to serve 4 x 23m during CP5, if I recall correctly.

 

[Viscount702]

According to the sectional appendix they were already long enough for 6 x 23m. Was hoping they may make them long enough for 8 x 20