Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[LNW-GW Joint]

Since phase 4 so long, "whopping great electric clobber" will appear at intermediate points on the route; I'd say at three roughly equally spaced points (say around 6, 12 and 18 miles along the route).

Maybe the 12-mile stuff is going into the large Balfour Beatty work site taking shape west of Bolton.

 

[snowball]

Since phase 4 is so long, "whopping great electric clobber" will appear at intermediate points on the route; I'd say at three roughly equally spaced points (say around 6, 12 and 18 miles along the route).

You're allowed to use the word "autotransformer". The AT system has been explained on here a few times, so most of us regulars have some understanding of it.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Maybe the 12-mile stuff is going into the large Balfour Beatty work site taking shape west of Bolton.

I thought there was a "whopping great feeder/old power station" at Kearsley IIRC- surely that would be logical.

 

[snowball]

I thought there was a "whopping great feeder/old power station" at Kearsley IIRC- surely that would be logical.

There's also an existing substation at the proposed Stalybridge site. Joseph will no doubt give a definitive answer, but my guess is that with the AT system to improve distribution within the railway, and with feeder stations at Stalybridge, Newton-le-W and other points on the WCML, the expense of additional feeds from the grid at intermediate places such as Kearsley is considered unnecessary, at least until wiring of some further lines is authorised.

Edit: Though I suppose Kearsley would therefore be a good place for a switching/AT station that might be developed in future into a feeder station if needed.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

You're allowed to use the word "autotransformer". The AT system has been explained on here a few times, so most of us regulars have some understanding of it.

They aren't a function of AT, they'd be there if it was BT or BL too.

 

[WatcherZero]

Maybe the 12-mile stuff is going into the large Balfour Beatty work site taking shape west of Bolton.

If you mean north west that's the new bus station, will have a elevated walkway to connect to the station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you mean north west that's the new bus station, will have a elevated walkway to connect to the station.

No it's further out to the west, just a bare site with BB portacabins on it.

Don't feeder stations have to be near grid lines though?
They usually happen near where rail and grid lines intersect.
I think that's why Stalybridge is a feeder station, as a good site at a strategic point on both networks (as is Newton le Willows).

 

[snowball]

Don't feeder stations have to be near grid lines though?
They usually happen near where rail and grid lines intersect.
I think that's why Stalybridge is a feeder station, as a good site at a strategic point on both networks (as is Newton le Willows).

Yes, but it appears from Joseph's post #869 that no feeder stations are proposed between Stalybridge and Newton-le-W (and others to the north or south on the WCML). So any other "electric clobber" sites have no grid connection but are just for autotransformers, booster transformers, or switchgear to divide the route into electrical sections.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm pleased that power supply discussion is being powered up.

Going back to mast and base counts, having seen this correspondence a source closer to the action has written to me with accurate estimates of the foundations intended for most of the route.

There are two difficulties with it:

1. it is incomplete, because the design is incomplete (see a note to a Kearsley photo I took a while ago when I talked with an Orangeman who was out there contributing to design from the mucky end.)

2. it includes things like 'bases for back ties' (which I think are 'concrete tent pegs' such as 3868l in the Agecroft North Junction photos published yesterday) and 'wall brackets', which wouldn't count in a mast count.

Those caveats apart, on the figures supplied I reckon our provisional target of 1230 is low, so our % count is flattering. But not wildly so.

I propose we raise the target mast count, with mast meaning mast and base meaning base - ie not attempting to include wall fixings and the like - to 1400.

Thank you source.

 

[Class 170101]

I don't think there will be any capability built into Phase 7 (Lostock Junction to Wigan NW) to allow Bolton to be fed from the Wigan end, but you never know...

Isn't this a bit risky only feeding a route from one end and not both ends, especially as the lines at both ends will already be wired at that stage?

I would have expected this route to be fed from both WCML and Bolton ends of the route.

 

[Elecman]

I would think that Willow Park ( Newton le Willows), Stalybridge and the existing feeder at Garstang and Catterall would be sufficient for all the proposed NWest schemes.
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Isn't this a bit risky only feeding a route from one end and not both ends, especially as the lines at both ends will already be wired at that stage?

I would have expected this route to be fed from both WCML and Bolton ends of the route.

You would need to put in an intermediate Track Section Cabin somewhere in the middle if you wanted the ability to feed from both/ either end

 

[Class 170101]

I would think that Willow Park ( Newton le Willows), Stalybridge and the existing feeder at Garstang and Catterall would be sufficient for all the proposed NWest schemes.
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You would need to put in an intermediate Track Section Cabin somewhere in the middle if you wanted the ability to feed from both/ either end

What happens should you lose ability to feed from the end thats being planned to be fed from. Does it mean a Blocked to Electric Trains scenario then?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What happens should you lose ability to feed from the end thats being planned to be fed from. Does it mean a Blocked to Electric Trains scenario then?

I am not an electrical engineer - but surely no. It will just mean lower power in the section and multiple trains at full belt may not be possible.

 

[edwin_m]

If the feed is physically severed then there will be no power in a single-end fed branch line. But this would mean the wires were down so there wouldn't be any trains running anyway.

Feeders are arranged so that if any one of them goes out of action, circuit breakers can be operated to feed its area from other feeders.

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that Bill Morton has sent three more photos, this time of Adlington station, including one of the mast base set into the Manchester-bound platform. Thus far this remains the only one on a station site on Phase 4.

I've added them to Bill's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157650900509369/

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you Bill
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Joe Callaghan has sent this link.

Hats off to the producers, I reckon.

http://www.northernrail.org/news/7644

Thank you Joe
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Joe Callaghan has also sent this link which includes all sorts of goodies, especially of 'our' line iin the Agecroft-Kearsley-Farnworth area in the 1970s.

The David Flitcroft site is here:

http://www.dflitcroft.co.uk/The Railway Image/Early_Years/1970s/1974/1974_1.htm

Thank you Joe and thank you Mr Flitcroft for sharing you treasures.

 

[LeylandLen]

Under NRE 's 'Future engineering work ' , the section dealing with ' Major improvement work between Man Pic/Vic and Preston , starting May 2nd , STILL says '

'The timetable has not yet been finalised. However the following is being proposed but is subject to change.......' etc

May 2nd is 10 days away.(today being 22/4) When will it be finalised ? . Customers , sorry passengers, need to make plans ....

 

[snowball]

The page

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/farnworth/

has had links to timetables for a while.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would I be correct in thinking there's a Track Section Cabin at Preston Fylde Junction?

 

[LDECRexile]

I'm delighted that ALX400 has sent a phot of the new crossover just north of Blackrod.

I've added it to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651121057352/

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you ALX400.

I did a railtour (Southport-)Wigan Wallgate-Bolton-Buckshaw Parkway-Bolton-Hindley-Wigan(-Southport) today, mainly to photograph Buckshaw P/w and Hindley to have a set of 'then' shots for the future. I also wanted to see the line without my eyes glued to mast bases.

1. I reckon the Ridgeway Bridge is done and dusted, I could see no trace of men, signs or machinery from the train in either direction.

2. I couldn't make out the Balfour Beatty worksite west of Bolton which LNW-GW mentioned on Monday. I could see an anonymous site north of the tracks a short distance west of the tunnel west of Bolton station, I couldn't see any branding. It could be BB but it looks to be in an awfully small site with no sidings. A site of some sort is being established off the eastern end of the Lostock station car park, but once again, it looks small and sidingless.

I'm flummoxed, as there seems to be no obvious place to have a Phase 4 equivalent of Edge Hill. The only candidate would appear to be the sidings south of Bolton on the east side, but they were overgrown with trees the last time I looked.

3. Hindley was a delight. I had the good luck to arrive whilst two members of the 'Friends of Hindley Station' team were painting some of the things they have used to make the station really rather special. Community engagement like this can only be good for the railway, the community and the participants. All power to their elbows!

Photos later.

 

[Elecman]

Yes there is TSC at Fylde Jct

 

[LDECRexile]

I've now had a look at the FOHS (Friends of Hindley Station) website.

This section of old (probably 1950s and 1960s) photos may strike a particular chord.

http://fohs.sharepoint.com/Pages/OldStation.aspx
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I've wanged yesterday's photos of Buckshaw Parkway, Bolton Platform 5 and Hindley on the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

I'll write the accompanying texts later, it's gardening time now.
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This is a layman's straight question, not a 'why don't those idiots do this' pseudo-question.

When bridges such as Blackrod and Broughton Road are rebuilt for electrification there seems to be a lot of risk and cost associated with discovering, diverting then de-diverting services such as gas and water pipes.

The technique at both of those locations, and presumably others, appears to be to:

1. build a temporary pedestrian bridge and a temporary services bridge
2. divert people and services onto the temporary bridges
3. rebuild the main bridge
4. de-divert people and services to the rebuilt bridge, then
5. demolish the temporary bridges.

Why not:

1. build a permanent pedestrian bridge and a permanent services bridge
2. divert people and services onto these permanent bridges
3. rebuild the main bridge without services and without at least one footpath.

The apparent benefits would be:

a. segregation of some pedestrians and road traffic
b. ease of access to services for future upgrade or repair (no more 'road up')
c. much simpler, quicker and presumably cheaper structures and process.

I realise that this won't be possible in all locations, but at Blackrod it would seem to be.

 

[AM9]

The technique at both of those locations, and presumably others, appears to be to:

1. build a temporary pedestrian bridge and a temporary services bridge
2. divert people and services onto the temporary bridges
3. rebuild the main bridge
4. de-divert people and services to the rebuilt bridge, then
5. demolish the temporary bridges.

Why not:

1. build a permanent pedestrian bridge and a permanent services bridge
2. divert people and services onto these permanent bridges
3. rebuild the main bridge without services and without at least one footpath.

The apparent benefits would be:

a. segregation of some pedestrians and road traffic
b. ease of access to services for future upgrade or repair (no more 'road up')
c. much simpler, quicker and presumably cheaper structures and process.

I realise that this won't be possible in all locations, but at Blackrod it would seem to be.

Would it not result in a permanent land acquisition, and three structures to support forever?
Although maintenance of services and road surfaces are inconvenient to users of the bridge, they rarely impact on rail operation.
I also imagine that pedestrian bridges can be a nuisance to meet H&S rules when they pass over OLE routes whereas pedestrian behaviour is more visible on a single combined road.pedestrian/services crossing.

 

[LDECRexile]

Would it not result in a permanent land acquisition, and three structures to support forever?
Although maintenance of services and road surfaces are inconvenient to users of the bridge, they rarely impact on rail operation.
I also imagine that pedestrian bridges can be a nuisance to meet H&S rules when they pass over OLE routes whereas pedestrian behaviour is more visible on a single combined road.pedestrian/services crossing.

That sounds like several good reasons for starters, thank you.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I've wanged yesterday's photos of Buckshaw Parkway, Bolton Platform 5 and Hindley on the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

First person to spot a crossover appearing in photo 3910y wins a prize ...

 

[LDECRexile]

First person to spot a crossover appearing in photo 3910y wins a prize ...

Oooooh, Please Sir, Please Sir, what's the prize Sir?

On a wider note, I understand Phase 4 work this weekend will include two days of activity on the drains through the tunnel and bridges west of Bolton station.

I'm also hoping the new Dixon Fold span will be craned in tomorrow.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Oooooh, Please Sir, Please Sir, what's the prize Sir?

The crossover in 3828m

 

[LDECRexile]

The crossover in 3828m

Drat, I've already got one of them.
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A new thread has been started entitled "Farnworth Tunnel Options Report" which publishes a report commissioned by Network Rail into the merits or otherwise of various options for upgrading the tunnel.

Interesting.

 

[ALX400]

Noticed and addition on RTT for next Wednesday 29th from Lancaster to Blackrod FRGT which terminates there, al go see what that it is , Dep Lancaster at 20.14 for a 21.30 arrival at Blackrod.

 

[LDECRexile]

Noticed and addition on RTT for next Wednesday 29th from Lancaster to Blackrod FRGT which terminates there, al go see what that it is , Dep Lancaster at 20.14 for a 21.30 arrival at Blackrod.

Good man.

I went to Dixon Fold and Cock Robin footbridges today.

The latter is open for business and looks a really nice job, though, oddly, the lifting lugs have been left on a couple of coping stones.

As hoped, Dixon Fold's new span was craned in whilst I was there.

Bridgeosope updated below.

Films and photos later.

 

[LDECRexile]

I've wanged yesterday's images on here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/