Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[LDECRexile]

Paul and I visited a few locations today.

Our findings plus others sent in recently have been woven into the Bridgeosope, below. Please point out errors and omissions.

I'll add today's photos tomorrow.

 

[Darren R]

Not a dumb question.

On-track Plant, such as road-rail diggers and electrification cherrypickers will use the track before and after the rails through the tunnel are removed or buried. They might run away, as the Balfour Beatty electrification train did at Bryn a few months ago (mercifully hurting no-one) and as a trailer did in Westmorland (I think) not too long ago, killing people. Hence the need for catch points.

Thank you for asking.

That makes sense - thank you!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Not a dumb question.

On-track Plant, such as road-rail diggers and electrification cherrypickers will use the track before and after the rails through the tunnel are removed or buried. They might run away, as the Balfour Beatty electrification train did at Bryn a few months ago (mercifully hurting no-one) and as a trailer did in Westmorland (I think) not too long ago, killing people. Hence the need for catch points.

Thank you for asking.

*cough* They're trap points - they are fully worked by the signaller and cannot be trailed.

There will be trains brought in and out during possessions but they will be left unattended during the day - NR/L2/TRK/2049 D.7.1. (and other standards) apply so trap points are required. Some of the posts at each end are for the "stop and await instructions" signs for drivers leaving the "siding".

 

[LDECRexile]

*cough* They're trap points - they are fully worked by the signaller and cannot be trailed.

There will be trains brought in and out during possessions but they will be left unattended during the day - NR/L2/TRK/2049 D.7.1. (and other standards) apply so trap points are required. Some of the posts at each end are for the "stop and await instructions" signs for drivers leaving the "siding".

Have I just used a wrong/obsolete/non-existent word or are catch points and trap points different things?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Paul and I went exploring yesterday, I've put his photos in his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157649792560381/

and all our Blackpool-Salford photos in the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you Paul (especially for the Mint Aero.)

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Have I just used a wrong/obsolete/non-existent word or are catch points and trap points different things?

Two different things;
A catch point only ever points uphill and is used to derail trains (or portions of trains) rolling back down hills, out of control. Catch points are generally un-worked (though there were exceptions in high-speed lines where the catch point would be closed for a train movement in the right direction). Most (but not all) catch points have now been removed since NR does not permit the operation of unfitted trains, e.g. those not equipped with continuous automatic brakes). Catch points could exist anywhere, even mid-section, and used to be marked with a yellow triangle on a post and had to be held closed on the lever provided to allow engineering trains past in the "wrong" direction.

A trap point is a worked switch used to prevent an un-authorised movement from fouling a running line; they point towards the direction from which the un-authorised movement would approach and can also have sand-drags added to arrest passenger trains in a controlled manner (where a signal overlap cannot be provided).

 

[LDECRexile]

Two different things;
A catch point only ever points uphill and is used to derail trains (or portions of trains) rolling back down hills, out of control. Catch points are generally un-worked (though there were exceptions in high-speed lines where the catch point would be closed for a train movement in the right direction). Most (but not all) catch points have now been removed since NR does not permit the operation of unfitted trains, e.g. those not equipped with continuous automatic brakes). Catch points could exist anywhere, even mid-section, and used to be marked with a yellow triangle on a post and had to be held closed on the lever provided to allow engineering trains past in the "wrong" direction.

A trap point is a worked switch used to prevent an un-authorised movement from fouling a running line; they point towards the direction from which the un-authorised movement would approach and can also have sand-drags added to arrest passenger trains in a controlled manner (where a signal overlap cannot be provided).

Fab, thank you.

Dave

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Something like 5 more mast bases have gone in between Adlington and Chorley on the Down line in the last week or so, making 31 on that section and 45% of the Lostock-Euxton section.
Not sure about the Up as the light was difficult, but presumably something similar.
Mast counts (averaging both tracks) between stations from Lostock are: 34/20/42/31 total 127.
Preparations for more bases run west from the L&L canal bridge towards Chorley, and there are now signs of similar work around Agecroft.

I reckon the rate of progress needs to average 12 structures (base pairs) a week (at 15 per km) to finish the NW scheme by October 2017 (30 months).
That covers Manchester to Blackpool/Wigan/Stalybridge and Oxenholme-Windermere.
That amounts to about 800m of route a week.
They need to keep this up with masts and wires too.
You'd expect the first masts to be imminent.

 

[Darren R]

*cough* They're trap points - they are fully worked by the signaller and cannot be trailed.

There will be trains brought in and out during possessions but they will be left unattended during the day - NR/L2/TRK/2049 D.7.1. (and other standards) apply so trap points are required. Some of the posts at each end are for the "stop and await instructions" signs for drivers leaving the "siding".

When I was typing the post which LDECRexile was responding to, I tried to remember the difference between catch- and trap-points, but couldn't and gave up! I knew that, if I picked the wrong one, some smart a*** would be along to put me straight!

As always Mr Locke your postings are informative and educational. I hadn't realised that the Up track was being retained for engineering purposes; I kind of assumed that it was being removed completely for the duration - hence my bemusement at the sudden appearance of two sets of trap points.

 

[snowball]

I imagine the track from Moses Gate most of the way to Fanworth can remain undisturbed throughout the operation, though it will be within the single-line working zone.

 

[LDECRexile]

Something like 5 more mast bases have gone in between Adlington and Chorley on the Down line in the last week or so, making 31 on that section and 45% of the Lostock-Euxton section.
Not sure about the Up as the light was difficult, but presumably something similar.
Mast counts (averaging both tracks) between stations from Lostock are: 34/20/42/31 total 127.
Preparations for more bases run west from the L&L canal bridge towards Chorley, and there are now signs of similar work around Agecroft.

I reckon the rate of progress needs to average 12 structures (base pairs) a week (at 15 per km) to finish the NW scheme by October 2017 (30 months).
That covers Manchester to Blackpool/Wigan/Stalybridge and Oxenholme-Windermere.
That amounts to about 800m of route a week.
They need to keep this up with masts and wires too.
You'd expect the first masts to be imminent.

Thank you.

Progressometer updated as below.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thank you.
Progressometer updated as below.

Dave, I'm sure you know there are a few (2-3?) completed but bare Phase 2 portals east of Salford Central on the L&Y route, before the Chat Moss wires come in from the south approaching Deal St.
Maybe they were just completing the structures over a bridge or something.
They contribute to Phase 4 really.

 

[LDECRexile]

Dave, I'm sure you know there are a few (2-3?) completed but bare Phase 2 portals east of Salford Central on the L&Y route, before the Chat Moss wires come in from the south approaching Deal St.
Maybe they were just completing the structures over a bridge or something.
They contribute to Phase 4 really.

Indeed, aren't they represented by line 15 'Deal Street Jn to Salford Central east end' in the spreadsheet, or are they something else which I've missed?

I take Phase 4 to start at Deal St Junction, please tell me if I'm wrong.

When I first got involved with Phase 4 I asked if Man Vic should be included, I've taken the reply I received than as definitive.

I had a brief shufty at Man Vic today, with a visitor. It's coming on!

Dave

 

[thealexweb]

Another bridge rebuild is experiencing delays.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...Orlando_bridge_work_could_now_take_10_months/

To me it just seems there is a worrying lack of progress for a project supposedly 20 months away from completion.

 

[snowball]

The article is in error in saying Orlando Street bridge needs to be rebuilt for electrification. It has been previously stated on here that it already has the necessary headroom, but needs to be rebuilt because it's in poor condition.

 

[Geeves]

It makes sense to rebuild it while all the other works are on/closure, seeing as the majority of it is propped up by industrial strength scaffold poles currently.

Also I guess they can have a straighter run into the new platform 5 too.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

The article is in error in saying Orlando Street bridge needs to be rebuilt for electrification. It has been previously stated on here that it already has the necessary headroom, but needs to be rebuilt because it's in poor condition.

It sort of infers a rebuild for headroom, but as you say it is a condition-led rebuild (ahead of it simply falling down at some point in the medium future).

It makes sense to rebuild it while all the other works are on/closure, seeing as the majority of it is propped up by industrial strength scaffold poles currently.

Have they put more up now? north side of one span last time I saw.

Also I guess they can have a straighter run into the new platform 5 too.

Ironically it may be because of the need to protect P5 (and the engineering need to have a single span, for other reasons) that may be causing the further delay; last I heard the required single span was pushing the limits (length-wise).

I imagine the track from Moses Gate most of the way to Fanworth can remain undisturbed throughout the operation, though it will be within the single-line working zone.

If it didn't have to be lowered for electrification and relaid to support the higher speeds, then yes, it could ...

 

[LDECRexile]

I've added a dollop of photos to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm delighted that ALX400 has sent some shots of trackwork and bridgework at Blackrod which he took earlier today.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157651121057352/

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/sets/72157648767927083/

Thank you ALX400

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I've added a dollop of photos to the Combined Volume here:

re: 3796j & k Blackrod - replacing it in anticipation of the proposed increases in speed through here.

 

[ALX400]

re: 3796j & k Blackrod - replacing it in anticipation of the proposed increases in speed through here.

thought that may be the case re line speed, I've noticed a dodgy piece of track at Horwich parkway aswell where it looks like a dip in a small section on the line towards Blackrod, it was more noticeable when the Christmas special was running with the class 47's top and tail they had a right bounce going over that little bit

 

[LDECRexile]

re: 3796j & k Blackrod - replacing it in anticipation of the proposed increases in speed through here.

Thank you, I've added 'Comments' to the photos accordingly.

 

[ALX400]

Just noticed on RTT an addition has been thrown in Tomorrow night Mon 13th for a freight movement terminates at Blackrod at around 21.35 trailing load of 715 tonnes from Preston, al nip down to have a look, i'm guessing it'll probably be dropping ballast off but wouldn't it be coming from Crewe Bass Hall then ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Infact there's another one to coming from Blackburn via Bolton at the same time that's interesting

 

[LDECRexile]

Just noticed on RTT an addition has been thrown in Tomorrow night Mon 13th for a freight movement terminates at Blackrod at around 21.35 trailing load of 715 tonnes from Preston, al nip down to have a look, i'm guessing it'll probably be dropping ballast off but wouldn't it be coming from Crewe Bass Hall then ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Infact there's another one to coming from Blackburn via Bolton at the same time that's interesting

Good spot that man!

Here's a link to realtimetrains showing the trains:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BLK/2015/04/13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Good luck with your first night shots.

Dave

 

[Bevan Price]

Some of the freights shown with "load 715 tons" on RTT tend to be mobile track machinery, etc.

 

[LDECRexile]

Some of the freights shown with "load 715 tons" on RTT tend to be mobile track machinery, etc.

Good tip, thank you.

On the subject of realtimetrains, as folks may have seen, I filmed a Stoneblower going through Farnworth Tunnel and station on Friday 10th April around the middle of the day.

I'm blowed if I can find it on realtimetrains, though it shows a wonderfully exotic, if cancelled, Maryport to Guide Bridge working via the Cumbrian Coast.

Am I looking in the wrong place?

 

[LDECRexile]

While the cat's away....

LNW-GW Joint has asked me to deputise as the Monday Mast and Base counter, so, gulp, here goes.

Headlines:

1. First bases in place between Windsor Bridge North Junction and Bolton
2. First mast to appear in a station
3. Continued steady increase in number of bases in place

1.1 Four bases in situ west of tracks in the general vicinity of the Viridor site north of Salford Crescent
1.2 Seven bases in situ east of tracks in the general vicinity of the VTG site north of Salford Crescent

2.1 One mast base half way along Adlington's southbound platform

3.1 Detail shown in Progressometer (please see below). Only fly in ointment was that I was distracted in both directions between Chorley and Adlington so can't properly update that stretch.

4. I didn't travel north of Chorley

5. I visited Soho Street bridge in Bolton which is due for rebuilding. As a layman I can't see why it can't just be demolished, it has three neighbours within yards, one of which is disused. Soho St bridge carries no road traffic. This may well bring the wrath of Bolton upon my head. There appears to be some preliminary underground electricity cable work taking place at its northern end.

6.1 A 'Haul Road' has been created from the hard standing at the northern end of Dean Clough (Overdale Drive) bridge down to track level.
6.2 In my commentary to the photos of this bridge I described the scaffolding bridge to the west of the existing bridge as a 'footbridge'. I was wrong, it is a temporary bridge to carry services such as gas and water. It will serve the same purpose as the steel temporary bridge immediately north of Station Road bridge at Blackrod. At least one fat service conduit now lies along the temp services bridge.

Progressometer and Bridgeoscope below.

Photos later.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

While the cat's away....
LNW-GW Joint has asked me to deputise as the Monday Mast and Base counter, so, gulp, here goes.
Headlines:
1. First bases in place between Windsor Bridge North Junction and Bolton
2. First mast to appear in a station
3. Continued steady increase in number of bases in place
1.1 Four bases in situ west of tracks in the general vicinity of the Viridor site north of Salford Crescent
1.2 Seven bases in situ east of tracks in the general vicinity of the VTG site north of Salford Crescent
2.1 One mast base half way along Adlington's southbound platform

Well done sir, I knew something big would happen in my absence!
It's also a certain fact that an inquisitive conductor will appear in mid-count...
Last week the strong Lancashire sun was reflecting off the windows at the crucial point...

 

[ALX400]

Good tip, thank you.

On the subject of realtimetrains, as folks may have seen, I filmed a Stoneblower going through Farnworth Tunnel and station on Friday 10th April around the middle of the day.

I'm blowed if I can find it on realtimetrains, though it shows a wonderfully exotic, if cancelled, Maryport to Guide Bridge working via the Cumbrian Coast.

Am I looking in the wrong place?

Is this it Dave, that would be the one I think


Schedule Information
•VAR schedule UID O88159
•Runs on 10/04/2015 only
•Service code 53693601


Operational Information
•Schedule from VSTP
•Diesel locomotive
•Runs as required


Realtime Status
•TRUST ID 32635R2J10
•Running as 635R
•Activated 10/04/2015 12:33




WTT

Realtime

Route

Allowances


Location

Pl

Arr

Dep

Arr

Dep

Dly

Line

Path

Eng

Pth

Prf


Guide Bridge B'sde Sdgs 1140 No report
Guide Bridge [GUI] pass 1143 No report
Ashburys [ABY] pass 1149 pass 1226 37L
Philips Park South Jn pass 1156 No report
Philips Park West Jn pass 1159½ pass 1233 33L
Miles Platting [MLP] pass 1202 pass 1235 33L DS
Manchester Victoria [MCV] 5 1213 1217 1239 N/R 26L
Deal Street Jn pass 1218 No report
Salford Central [SFD] pass 1224 pass 1240 16L DD
Salford Crescent [SLD] 2 pass 1227 pass 1243½ 16L B
Bolton [BON] 4 pass 1237 pass 1300 23L M
Lostock Jn [XLK] pass 1241 pass 1304½ 23L
Chorley [CRL] pass 1250 pass 1314¼ 24L
Euxton Jn [XOU] pass 1255 pass 1318¼ 23L F
Preston [PRE] 3 1302 1318 1326¼ 1326¼ 8L F
Garstang & Catteral pass 1328 pass 1339¼ 11L
Lancaster [LAN] 3 pass 1339 pass 1407½ 28L M M
Morecambe South Jn pass 1341 pass 1415½ 34L
Carnforth North Jn [XOA] pass 1345 pass 1421¼ 36L M
Oxenholme Down Goods Loop 1359 1420 1441 1441½ 21L G
Oxenholme Lake District [OXN] 2 pass 1422 pass 1442¾ 20L
Tebay [XIT] pass 1447 pass 1507 20L
Penrith North Lakes [PNR] 1454 1458 1538½ 1538½ 40L
Penrith Isu (Ce) 1500 1544 44L

 

[Darren R]

Just noticed on RTT an addition has been thrown in Tomorrow night Mon 13th for a freight movement terminates at Blackrod at around 21.35 trailing load of 715 tonnes from Preston, al nip down to have a look, i'm guessing it'll probably be dropping ballast off but wouldn't it be coming from Crewe Bass Hall then ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Infact there's another one to coming from Blackburn via Bolton at the same time that's interesting

The one from Blackburn isn't that interesting - it's only a Tamper I'm afraid! (There is usually one stabled at Blackburn and it makes frequent trips to the Bolton area.)

...
Last week the strong Lancashire sun was reflecting off the windows at the crucial point...

You don't need to worry about that being a problem again anytime soon!

 

[LDECRexile]

Is this it Dave, that would be the one I think


Schedule Information
•VAR schedule UID O88159
•Runs on 10/04/2015 only
•Service code 53693601


Operational Information
•Schedule from VSTP
•Diesel locomotive
•Runs as required


Realtime Status
•TRUST ID 32635R2J10
•Running as 635R
•Activated 10/04/2015 12:33




WTT

Realtime

Route

Allowances


Location

Pl

Arr

Dep

Arr

Dep

Dly

Line

Path

Eng

Pth

Prf


Guide Bridge B'sde Sdgs 1140 No report
Guide Bridge [GUI] pass 1143 No report
Ashburys [ABY] pass 1149 pass 1226 37L
Philips Park South Jn pass 1156 No report
Philips Park West Jn pass 1159½ pass 1233 33L
Miles Platting [MLP] pass 1202 pass 1235 33L DS
Manchester Victoria [MCV] 5 1213 1217 1239 N/R 26L
Deal Street Jn pass 1218 No report
Salford Central [SFD] pass 1224 pass 1240 16L DD
Salford Crescent [SLD] 2 pass 1227 pass 1243½ 16L B
Bolton [BON] 4 pass 1237 pass 1300 23L M
Lostock Jn [XLK] pass 1241 pass 1304½ 23L
Chorley [CRL] pass 1250 pass 1314¼ 24L
Euxton Jn [XOU] pass 1255 pass 1318¼ 23L F
Preston [PRE] 3 1302 1318 1326¼ 1326¼ 8L F
Garstang & Catteral pass 1328 pass 1339¼ 11L
Lancaster [LAN] 3 pass 1339 pass 1407½ 28L M M
Morecambe South Jn pass 1341 pass 1415½ 34L
Carnforth North Jn [XOA] pass 1345 pass 1421¼ 36L M
Oxenholme Down Goods Loop 1359 1420 1441 1441½ 21L G
Oxenholme Lake District [OXN] 2 pass 1422 pass 1442¾ 20L
Tebay [XIT] pass 1447 pass 1507 20L
Penrith North Lakes [PNR] 1454 1458 1538½ 1538½ 40L
Penrith Isu (Ce) 1500 1544 44L

Yes, I'm sure that's the one. Where did you find it? Did I just miss it in realtimetrains or do you have somewhere else to look?

 

[ALX400]

I always look for the station after near the time so it shows the pass time, I put Bolton instead of Farnworth..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The one from Blackburn isn't that interesting - it's only a Tamper I'm afraid! (There is usually one stabled at Blackburn and it makes frequent trips to the Bolton area.)

Indeed they were both Colas Rail Tampers, Orange Army out in force, must have something to do with the track replacement over the weekend and the removal of the points, I was there at Blackrod from about 21.25 and got the last scheduled non stoppers through, its sounds a lot quieter now those points have been removed and the track replaced, I live not far away and you could always hear the trains rumble over that length.