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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

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snowball

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The excavated ground doesn't have to support itself. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Fillie is fitted with a hood and fore-poling plates which extend 2.275 metres ahead of the main body. So the ground is supported before the cutting booms even get to work.
But there has to be a gap behind the hood when they're about to put the next ring in, and it must take some time to place a ring, and if there's sand it will fall in.

User "Mwmbwls" has posted this on skyscrapercity:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=127789652&postcount=3240
 

Philip Phlopp

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But there has to be a gap behind the hood when they're about to put the next ring in, and it must take some time to place a ring, and if there's sand it will fall in.

User "Mwmbwls" has posted this on skyscrapercity:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=127789652&postcount=3240

We've had this discussion already, the hood/tunnelling shield is larger in diameter than the finished tunnel, the ring is assembled inside the shield and when assembled, the machine moves forward. Grout is then injected into the small space left when the shield moves forward and clear of the completed ring. It's a bit like one of those telescopic radio aerials, if that helps make sense of it.

There's no gap or void at any point between the hood/shield and the concrete tunnel lining, the only gap of any sort (excluding the obvious cutting head) is the very small gap, a matter of tens of millimetres (at a conservative estimate), between the concrete ring and the excavated tunnel void in the ground, but that's pumped with grout to bind the concrete lining to the ground and stabilise the situation.

At a guess (I'm not a tunnelling engineer) I'd suggest the subsidence is simply a result of the soil settling in and around the new concrete lining as the tunnelling machine moved forward, and that this would be confirmed by the engineers as they examine the grout injection pressures and volumes.
 

Lurpi

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On a related note, it was suggested a few posts ago that the evening closures of the A666 were due to Fillie only tunneling at night, instead of 24 hours a day as planned.

This article from the Bolton News (of course) contradicts that. Apparently the evening closures are due to planned resurfacing, not tunneling, unlike the lane closures.

In which case, all is hopefully well with the tunnel for now.
 
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ironstone11

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On a related note, it was suggested a few posts ago that the evening closures of the A666 were due to Fillie only tunneling at night, instead of 24 hours a day as planned.

That statement was corrected by Snowball in the Post that followed.
 
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Trackman

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The photo in this article shows it and suggests it was expected and nothing to worry about: http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...er_s_Way_as_engineers_tunnel_underneath_road/

Edited to include more detail

I drove past last Sunday- no dip. same lanes closed off in the picture too.

Also what are the tunnels correct name? Bolton Council call it Clammerclough
Tunnel I think OS maps do.
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/TC-Footpath-KER008-012.pdf

When I was there is the 80's it was called 'Farnworth U tunnels'
 

snowball

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I drove past last Sunday- no dip. same lanes closed off in the picture too.

Also what are the tunnels correct name? Bolton Council call it Clammerclough
Tunnel I think OS maps do.
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/TC-Footpath-KER008-012.pdf

When I was there is the 80's it was called 'Farnworth U tunnels'

Why U?

The oldest OS maps say Clamourclough. More recent ones spell it Clammerclough. But in railway circles it seems to be just Farnworth.
 

Lurpi

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That statement was corrected by Snowball in the Post that followed.

Since you mention it...

The dip is somewhat worrying, but the lanes were going to be closed anyway when Fillie is under them.

As the road isn't totally closed we can be confident that the authorities don't think there's a threat to life and limb.

That's not quite what I said ;) The all-day lane closures are because of Fillie. The nightly closures are because of resurfacing. That was my point, and it was a new one.
 
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snowball

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Since you mention it...



That's not quite what I said ;) The all-day lane closures are because of Fillie. The nightly closures are because of resurfacing. That was my point, and it was a new one.

The post by me that ironstone was referring to was not the one that you quote. He was referring to my #1870:

The night-time road closures are for Bolton Council's work to the road, unrelated to the railway.

My estimates of the rate of progress since 19 September are around 3m a day.

which replied to his #1868:

This suggests that for safety and to minimise ground vibration from traffic, the tunnelling is only being done at night.

If this is the case, the tunnelling rate is probably reduced to one ring per night. Down to 1.4m per 24 hr day while Fillie is under the A666.

And the first mention of the fact that Bolton Council would be closing the road at night was in the press release linked by ironstone in #1830 on 30 Sept.
 
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Lurpi

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Oh... then I was looking in the wrong place... my mistake.

I think the Bolton News will be sorry when the tunnel does get finished, they've been dining out on the twists and turns.
 

Trackman

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The sign you remember was an ancient wooden one (it was in London Midland Region 'red') and would at some point have originally read 'Farnworth Up Tunnel' ;)

No it was on the down, the board was in the ground where the new 'Farnworth Tunnel Downside' sign was. You can see it on the wikipedia page.
 

snowball

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I drove both ways along the A666 at about 19:00 this evening. All lanes were open, suggesting Fillie has moved on.

The temporary services bridge at Blackrod is still there after all these weeks, still carrying a solitary duct.
 

ALX400

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I drove both ways along the A666 at about 19:00 this evening. All lanes were open, suggesting Fillie has moved on.

The temporary services bridge at Blackrod is still there after all these weeks, still carrying a solitary duct.

That duct is a virgin media cable awaiting removal, they have been left with a hefty bill as its way over timeline, once that's done the whole thing will be re surfaced as there's still an issue with United utilities assets in the road which are causing a depression on the Horwich bound road, I received an email after reporting it from NR stating that it was to be re done in November.
 

Howardh

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Oh... then I was looking in the wrong place... my mistake.

I think the Bolton News will be sorry when the tunnel does get finished, they've been dining out on the twists and turns.

Doubt it - there will still be plenty of price hikes, broken down trains, overcrowded trains and electric line failures to get their teeth into! On top there will be the long-awaited opening of the bus interchange. Be interesting if bus companies did an *Ibiza* and refused to use it!

Doing an *Ibiza* for those not in the know, a spanking new bus station was built under the city. Small, dank, out of the way, difficult for pedestrians to find, tight curves most buses couldnt get round easily :( the bus companies eventually went back to parking on the street. Anyone have an update, it's over a year since I was last there so not sure if the problems were sorted - a little check on the ibiza bus website suggests they aren't and are still using the street.
 
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snowball

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To be clear of the lanes of the A666, Fillie must have done at least 190m and have at most 80m to go. She appears to be making good speed lately.

On 6 Oct (see #1863 on page 125) 105 rings out of 190 were said to be in place. Working on 1.4m a ring, that comes to 147m; alternatively, working on 105/190 of 270m, it comes to 149m.

So she appears to have done at least 41m in the 11 or 11.5 days from 6 Oct to last night. That's well in excess of the 2.5m a day recently quoted by Joseph Locke.

Bonfire night anyone?

Edit: She started on 1 Aug so 2.5m a day sounds about right for her overall average speed since then, including the time she was stationary while they dealt with the soft ground.
 
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Howardh

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What will happen to Fillie when completed? Could the machine be used elsewhere, or was it specifically built for just this one job, and it will be dismantled with bits used in other machinery?
If neither, and it emerges in one piece, I rather hope it gets displayed. A location could be the centre of the "triangle" on approach from the north @ Trinity St?
 

Philip Phlopp

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What will happen to Fillie when completed? Could the machine be used elsewhere, or was it specifically built for just this one job, and it will be dismantled with bits used in other machinery?
If neither, and it emerges in one piece, I rather hope it gets displayed. A location could be the centre of the "triangle" on approach from the north @ Trinity St?

It was to be refurbished and made available for other projects, but engineers on the project seem to think it will be scrapped after the Farnworth project is completed.

I've not been able to confirm whether it's confusion over the machine being dismantled for removal, or if it's a change in plan and the machine will be stripped for spare parts and disposed of.
 

snowball

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We've had this discussion already, the hood/tunnelling shield is larger in diameter than the finished tunnel, the ring is assembled inside the shield and when assembled, the machine moves forward. Grout is then injected into the small space left when the shield moves forward and clear of the completed ring. It's a bit like one of those telescopic radio aerials, if that helps make sense of it.

There's no gap or void at any point between the hood/shield and the concrete tunnel lining, the only gap of any sort (excluding the obvious cutting head) is the very small gap, a matter of tens of millimetres (at a conservative estimate), between the concrete ring and the excavated tunnel void in the ground, but that's pumped with grout to bind the concrete lining to the ground and stabilise the situation.

I think I'm beginning to understand this at last. Here is a picture from the Northern Programme Twitter feed:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRSdeHCU8AAjOtn.jpg

I take it that Fillie's direction of travel in the picture is from right to left. We can see four of the 20 rams which enable her to advance. They are in varied states of retraction so I assume that an advance of one ring's width has just been completed. The rams have recently been pushing on the completed ring of concrete segments which we see at the right of the picture.

Behind the rams we are looking at the inside of the shell. The completed ring on the right is either entirely or almost entirely beyond the end of the shell. When the rams started pushing on that ring it was still inside the shell and therefore not yet grouted in.

My problem was that I had been assuming that only a grouted ring could be used for pushing against.

When the rams have finished retracting, the ring assembly mechanism (which must be out of shot to the right) will place the 10 segments of the next ring in the space where the rams now are, inside the shell, starting with the bottom segment and then working up both sides in balance. Then the rams will push on the new ring as the digging at the front permits.

As they push, the tail end of the shell will move forward past the new ring, which will presumably be grouted in (perhaps during the push, working from its right to its left end). By the end of the push, the new ring will be clear of the shell. The rams will then retract and the cycle will repeat.
 
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LDECRexile

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I really appreciate the recent informed and high quality contributions on engineering matters, thank you.

Joe Callaghan has kindly sent a film of a bridge parapet section being craned onto Cemetery Road bridge. I think there may be more in the pipeline, but Joe is being 'entertained' by Windows 10. He's also sent a photo with a difference.

I've wanged both onto Joe's album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157651953947345

and onto the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648767927083

I've also updated the Bridgeoscope, below.
 

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Philip Phlopp

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I think I'm beginning to understand this at last. Here is a picture from the Northern Programme Twitter feed:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRSdeHCU8AAjOtn.jpg

I take it that Fillie's direction of travel in the picture is from right to left. We can see four of the 20 rams which enable her to advance. They are in varied states of retraction so I assume that an advance of one ring's width has just been completed. The rams have recently been pushing on the completed ring of concrete segments which we see at the right of the picture.

Behind the rams we are looking at the inside of the shell. The completed ring on the right is either entirely or almost entirely beyond the end of the shell. When the rams started pushing on that ring it was still inside the shell and therefore not yet grouted in.

My problem was that I had been assuming that only a grouted ring could be used for pushing against.

When the rams have finished retracting, the ring assembly mechanism (which must be out of shot to the right) will place the 10 segments of the next ring in the space where the rams now are, inside the shell, starting with the bottom segment and then working up both sides in balance. Then the rams will push on the new ring as the digging at the front permits.

As they push, the tail end of the shell will move forward past the new ring, which will presumably be grouted in (perhaps during the push, working from its right to its left end). By the end of the push, the new ring will be clear of the shell. The rams will then retract and the cycle will repeat.

Yes, and upon reviewing what you've quoted, apologies for sounding dismissive, that wasn't my intention. I remember having a similar discussion but I don't think it was in this thread, or it's a long distance back.

Everything you've said is absolutely spot on, the only trivia fluff to add is that the rams that push the TBM forward against the completed concrete ring allow a vast variation in the course of the machine, effectively they're the steering system. The left hand rams can push a little less far than the right hand rams and you get a left turn.
 

Geeves

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Its all very clever stuff, glad to see they are making good progress. In regards to the demise of the machine, the gent who took us round stated that while the structure of the tbm will be scrapped all reusable parts like the rams for example can be refurbished and reused in the next Tbm :)
 
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