Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Joseph_Locke]

A point that should wonderfully concentrate a few minds nearer the time.

Fear not - it is attracting a little debate already ...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

On Sunday I had a pork pie made in Yorkshire with bury black pudding in it - talk about a free market economy!

Way off topic mods - I appologize - but that sounds like heaven.

 

[WatcherZero]

NR has confirmed in the Bolton News subject to financing Bolton will be getting its fifth platform reinstated.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

NR has confirmed in the Bolton News subject to financing Bolton will be getting its fifth platform reinstated.

Somebody should get on and design it then,
.

Oh, hang on ...

 

[Darren R]

NR has confirmed in the Bolton News subject to financing Bolton will be getting its fifth platform reinstated.

Erm, no it hasn't! Just becasue the Bolton Evening News says that Bolton Council says it's gonna happen don't necessarily make it so!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

NR has confirmed in the Bolton News subject to financing Bolton will be getting its fifth platform reinstated.

To be somewhat pedantic (am I ever anything else..) would it be better for NR to say that the trackwork adjacent to the platform will be reinstated, as the platform itself in that situation surely was not taken away ?

There is already an existing thread about this very matter on this Infrastructure and Stations forum.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

To be somewhat pedantic (am I ever anything else..) would it be better for NR to say that the trackwork adjacent to the platform will be reinstated, as the platform itself in that situation surely was not taken away ?

Depends on your view; there is very little of the coping edge left, no tactile paving and the southern 50mis "harp" units which will have to be replaced anyway. There's a 40m gap where the staff parking ramp has been inserted and then there's Northern's ramp/stairs from Orlando Street up to platform level.

Fancy a virtual pint on it all being rebuilt?

 

[thealexweb]

Well there is/was a way. Bring forward the Wigan - Lostock Jct electrification and it could have happened. OK Chorley residents may get even more ****ed off but it could be done.

Has Lostock Junction to Wigan North West been been confirmed yet? Last time I asked Network Rail about this project, this and the Windermere branch were still being reviewed.

 

[DJH1971]

Has Lostock Junction to Wigan North West been been confirmed yet? Last time I asked Network Rail about this project, this and the Windermere branch were still being reviewed.

According to the NW Sparks website, it was approved last December.

 

[snowball]

This is the press release that said Bolton-Wigan was approved:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/road-and-rail-projects-to-boost-local-and-regional-transport--2

However I seem to remember some of the more knowledgable people on here have said it's in the same state as Windermere, not fully approved.

The CP5 Enhancements Delivery Plan says this:

We are currently discussing the output, scope and milestones of a number of additional
projects with DfT. As these requirements are agreed we will seek to change control the
projects into our plan. These projects include:
 Ely – Soham double tracking;
 Syston – Stoke gauge enhancements;
 Windermere branch electrification;
 Wigan – Bolton electrification; and
 Stratford station (development only).

 

[snowball]

From a post by WatcherZero on Skyscrapercity on Thursday:

Line closure for Manchester-Preston line electrification works from 14th December on Sun-Thu nights,
• Lostock Junction to Euxton Junction from 21:35
• Bolton to Lostock Junction from 22:00
• Salford Crescent to Bolton from 22:50


From Friday 3rd to Monday 6th April 2015, there will be a complete closure of the route between Salford Crescent and Euxton Junction (near Preston) and between Bolton and Blackburn to allow the Farnworth bi-directional operation to be commissioned. From April to August there will only be 4 or 5 paths through the tunnels an hour single line working, Northern are working on the plan which will see all services between Manchester and Preston/Wigan be 4 or 6 car lengths. Passengers will be directed onto Wigan via Atherton and Preston via Wigan services.

 

[thealexweb]

From a post by WatcherZero on Skyscrapercity on Thursday:

Four of five paths per hour is going to be a nightmare. I saw people quoting six paths per hour a few months ago and with that you could provide an hourly service in each direction for each of three routes through Bolton.

A Preston to Manchester Victoria stopper should receive absolute priority for paths due the sheer number of stations it can serve, plus it can be run with 3 x 150s again. I say Preston and Manchester Victoria and not Blackpool North and Huddersfield because I am unsure of platform lengths beyond Manchester Victoria and Blackpool North passengers should be nudged towards Transpennine services or changing at Preston.

 

[Philip]

Going off TRUST it looks like all TPE services will be diverted via Chat Moss/Wigan from April. All of the Northern services through Bolton are still showing so it seems they're still deciding what to do with what. I guess an hourly TPE shuttle formed of doubled up 185s running back and forth between Bolton and Manchester all day was too much to hope for.

As for the Northern services, I'd start the Clitheroe service from Bolton. Southport to Manchester Airport can run as a train and run all stops between Wigan and Bolton. Manchester Vic to Preston all stops Bolton to Preston sounds a good idea. Possibly then run a two-hourly service between Hazel Grove and Bolton and with some peak trains extending to Preston and vice versa. You could maybe fit the stops between Salford and Bolton into either the Southport-Airport or the Preston-Victoria services. Otherwise run an hourly bus service between Victoria and Bolton serving the stops.

 

[thealexweb]

Going off TRUST it looks like all TPE services will be diverted via Chat Moss/Wigan from April. All of the Northern services through Bolton are still showing so it seems they're still deciding what to do with what. I guess an hourly TPE shuttle formed of doubled up 185s running back and forth between Bolton and Manchester all day was too much to hope for.

As for the Northern services, I'd start the Clitheroe service from Bolton. Southport to Manchester Airport can run as a train and run all stops between Wigan and Bolton. Manchester Vic to Preston all stops Bolton to Preston sounds a good idea. Possibly then run a two-hourly service between Hazel Grove and Bolton and with some peak trains extending to Preston and vice versa. You could maybe fit the stops between Salford and Bolton into either the Southport-Airport or the Preston-Victoria services. Otherwise run an hourly bus service between Victoria and Bolton serving the stops.

Is there any chance of Transpennine additionally calling at Wigan North Western, Euxton Balshaw Lane and Leyland to help ease the burden at Bolton, Chorley and Buckshaw Parkway respectively?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As for the Northern services, I'd start the Clitheroe service from Bolton.

Does anyone have recourse to the number of daily Monday to Friday direct Clitheroe, Whalley, Langho and Ramsgreave & Wilpshire journeys to and from Manchester Victoria?

 

[thealexweb]

Does anyone have recourse to the number of daily Monday to Friday direct Clitheroe, Whalley, Langho and Ramsgreave & Wilpshire journeys to and from Manchester Victoria?

17 Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe services per day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...14/10/27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

19 Clitheroe to Manchester Victoria services per day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...14/10/27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

This is excluding any services that only start / terminate at Blackburn.

 

[Darren R]

According to the Network Rail bods who visited the house yesterday, the work to lengthen the passing loops at Darwen, on the line from Bolton to Blackburn and Clitheroe, is to take place next summer at the same time as the Farnworth Tunnel blockade. That being the case, it seems safe to assume that what trains do actually run on the Clitheroe Line during the Darwen works will be timetabled to terminate at Bolton rather than intrude upon the likely chaos south thereof!

* But since I was at work and the two gentlemen concerned discussed the work with Mrs R, who may have misunderstood, I cannot personally vouch for the verisimilitude of what they were reported to have said!

 

[Class 170101]

Presumably these trains will not operate bnetween Bolton and Blackburn and maybe between Manchester and Blackburn depending upon the arrangements for Farnworth Tunnel - Bi-Directional Working was mentioned through one of the bores?

 

[Llama]

Correct, it will be signalled bidirectional working, not single line working (which involves a pilotman and lengthy paperwork for each train).

 

[158756]

According to the Network Rail bods who visited the house yesterday, the work to lengthen the passing loops at Darwen, on the line from Bolton to Blackburn and Clitheroe, is to take place next summer at the same time as the Farnworth Tunnel blockade. That being the case, it seems safe to assume that what trains do actually run on the Clitheroe Line during the Darwen works will be timetabled to terminate at Bolton rather than intrude upon the likely chaos south thereof!

* But since I was at work and the two gentlemen concerned discussed the work with Mrs R, who may have misunderstood, I cannot personally vouch for the verisimilitude of what they were reported to have said!

Work at Darwen is supposed to take place during the Farnworth blockade. I'd guess that for some of this work trains won't be able to run through Darwen, so trains on the Clitheroe line will run only to Blackburn, with buses south thereof(which I don't think can actually get to Entwistle station).
It would then simplify things(IMO) if trains running through Darwen before Farnworth is done terminate at Bolton, so as not to change things part way through the blockade.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Work at Darwen is supposed to take place during the Farnworth blockade. I'd guess that for some of this work trains won't be able to run through Darwen, so trains on the Clitheroe line will run only to Blackburn, with buses south thereof(which I don't think can actually get to Entwistle station).
It would then simplify things(IMO) if trains running through Darwen before Farnworth is done terminate at Bolton, so as not to change things part way through the blockade.

Indeed a seemingly rare example of joined up thinking! Hopefully by then Blackburn will have an alternative route into Manchester via Burnley and Todmorden, too...

 

[Class 170101]

Can you actually reverse at Blackburn and head to Manchester Victoria (post Todmorden curve signalling commissioning) all in on move or are there missing bits of signalling / infrastructure at Blackburn?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The three through platforms at Blackburn are all bi-directional so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The three through platforms at Blackburn are all bi-directional so it shouldn't be a problem.

This is the main reason the Tod curve service is planned to run to and from Blackburn: There's nowhere between there and the curve suitable for the service to turn back.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Indeed a seemingly rare example of joined up thinking!

More than that - the electrical clearance work (and potential platform 5 reinstatement works) at Bolton may also be undertaken during the Farnworth / Darwen Blockade, when it's all nice and quiet ...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

More than that - the electrical clearance work (and potential platform 5 reinstatement works) at Bolton may also be undertaken during the Farnworth / Darwen Blockade, when it's all nice and quiet ...

Glad you mentioned platform 5 at Bolton. Knowing of all the tasks that are required there to bring this platform face back into full operational status, what time period would you personally attach to those works.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Glad you mentioned platform 5 at Bolton. Knowing of all the tasks that are required there to bring this platform face back into full operational status, what time period would you personally attach to those works.

Purely speculation on my part you understand, but I'd see the civils works happening during summer 2015 (with the reconstruction of Orlando Street Bridge and the erection of the new "Skylink" bridge to the Bus Station) the OLE works in early 2016 and the signalling / track and final OLE works later in 2016.

I suspect that the Bolton area may be the last piece of the 2016 jigsaw on this route.

 

[billio]

This is the main reason the Tod curve service is planned to run to and from Blackburn: There's nowhere between there and the curve suitable for the service to turn back.

I presume they could not turn back here at Accrington as it looks to be controlled by a ground frame ?. (This looks like extremely grotty track to me, but I know nothing.) See photo : Accrington 158

 

[Darren R]

I presume they could not turn back here at Accrington as it looks to be controlled by a ground frame ?. (This looks like extremely grotty track to me, but I know nothing.) See photo : Accrington 158

The facing crossover nearest the camera is controlled by the emergency ground frame; the trailing crossover is signalled and controlled from Preston PSB. (Dunnow why they did it that way though!)

(Sorry - slightly off-topic!)

 

[edwin_m]

The facing crossover nearest the camera is controlled by the emergency ground frame; the trailing crossover is signalled and controlled from Preston PSB. (Dunnow why they did it that way though!)
[/I]

Correct. I presume it was some sort of BR penny pinching.

However turnaround would only be possible here if the timetable allowed the train to stand on one of the main lines for its turnaround time without blocking any other trains.