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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

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Joseph_Locke

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Article is very poor.

Today's prize for understatement goes to ... :D

Anyway, I think someone from the Manchester Evening News has moved the BBC - its a lesson in how to squeeze every possible negative out of a story without even hinting at any of the positives:

  • Faster services
  • More frequent services
  • More reliable timetable
  • Overall improvement in seat numbers
  • Improvements to footpath crossing safety
  • More service opportunities (e.g. Manchester - Scotland Pendolinos)
  • Enhanced operational flexibility
  • Reduced operational noise
 
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Bayum

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Today's prize for understatement goes to ... :D

Anyway, I think someone from the Manchester Evening News has moved the BBC - its a lesson in how to squeeze every possible negative out of a story without even hinting at any of the positives:

  • Faster services
  • More frequent services
  • More reliable timetable
  • Overall improvement in seat numbers
  • Improvements to footpath crossing safety
  • More service opportunities (e.g. Manchester - Scotland Pendolinos)
  • Enhanced operational flexibility
  • Reduced operational noise


Has Virgin got enough Pendolinos to offer a Manchester - Scotland service?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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No, they are all deployed.
The plan was to acquire new 6-car Pendolinos for the Birmingham-Scotland services, and they would add to this order for Manchester/Liverpool if they got the route.
However that's all back in the melting pot with the franchise shenanigans over the past year.
If the route was transferred, Virgin would have to use the 350s until something else was agreed.
Virgin will be using the Chat Moss route (and eventually the Chorley route) for WCML Pendolinos on diversion and for ECS runs between Preston and Longsight.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Just read the BBC news article, apparently Network Rail have contacted the BBC and pointed out all the wrong things in the article, but it has yet to be changed!

Article is very poor.

I see that the BBC are keeping up their record of consistency in providing the poorest type of journalism in their railway reporting.

Perhaps the delay in making the required changes will be to allow the completion of supercilious excuses to be ready prepared for dissemination to the masses.
 

Whistler40145

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Any idea as to what Network Rail are doing at Poulton-le-Fylde?

I was in Booths Car Park yesterday & there seems to be some work being carried out on a footpath which is above the railway line opposite the Signalbox.

Any info would be appreciated.
 

driver9000

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Any idea as to what Network Rail are doing at Poulton-le-Fylde?

I was in Booths Car Park yesterday & there seems to be some work being carried out on a footpath which is above the railway line opposite the Signalbox.

Any info would be appreciated.

Work has started on the remaining bridges between Poulton and Layton. Station Road bridge has been clad in scaffolding. A bridge carrying a footpath over the line near Carleton crossing has been removed and work has also been going on at Lea Lane near Salwick to raise the bridge over the line.
 

Lankyline

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BBC Radio Lancashire aired the comments from Lindsey Hoyle MP for Chorley yesterday about how last weekend trains were at capacity, no one getting on at Preston Chorley etc, heading to Manchester, Northern rail said they had put every "servicable" train into service to cope adding an additional 20000 cpacity !

Then Radio lancashire started a moan about the state of rail services in Lancashire, since Lindsey Hoyle was directly affected, he made the comments about insufficient capacity, funding etc, maybe he should get together with his collegues in east lancashire to complain about Northern's stock issues re the Todmorden curve (as discussed that thread)

Its not going to get any easier for him wher the electrification work starts on the line and TPE start switching services away from Chorley to Preston, i bet Northern don't have the stock to pick up some of the slack !

Here's the link to what he said
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-25201620
 
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YorkshireBear

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I responded to his tweet with - "Well why did the labour government cancel a DMU order in 2009 then?" he did not respond :(
 

Lankyline

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I responded to his tweet with - "Well why did the labour government cancel a DMU order in 2009 then?" he did not respond :(

No surprise there then ! Amazing when an MP is directly affected the whole world gets to know. I bet he is going from Preston to London next year so avoiding the nightmare his constituents will face when electrification & reduced services through Chorley impact.
 

Francis

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Chorley's my local station so none too pleased about the cutbacks, though I can understand the reason for them, especially with the stock shortages. I had thought they would replace the diverted hourly fasts to Glasgow/Edinburgh with a Blackpool, Preston, Oxenholme or Barrow service. Obviously there aren't any extra carriages available.

Chorley did well on the old timetable. 2 fasts per hour to Manchester Picc, 1 semi-fast, and 1 all stations to Victoria. It's one of the fasts that we are losing.

Surely since the overall service quality is badly affected, our ticket prices should be reduced. Have TPE and Northern looked at that? Or are they hoping nobody will bring the subject up?

TPE could perhaps improve things in the meantime by stopping their Glasgow/Edinburgh - Manchester EMUs at Euxton Balshaw Lane, which is not two miles from Chorley town centre and has a good car park and bus links. It would be especially useful for the northbound services and for some Manchester commuters. Or are they just hanging us out to dry?

Are Bolton and Chorley going to get their Glasgow and Edinburgh services back in 2016 after electrification? Wigan already has good services up the WCML. Bolton (pop 300,000) and Chorley (100,000) have not.

Once the electrification work starts, and there is single line working through one of the Kearsley tunnels for months, I wouldn't like to be a daily commuter from Chorley or Bolton into Manchester. It will be chaos. I have an 1845 Bradshaw in which the Bolton-Manchester route was via Leigh and Kenyon Junction (on the Liverpool and Manchester railway, the first ever railway junction in the world (1832). But that is no longer in existence, nor is the route from Bolton via Radcliffe and Prestwich. So bustitutions in heavy M61/M60/A580 traffic where there are miles of tailbacks most mornings in the rush hour.
 

CJ

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Are Bolton and Chorley going to get their Glasgow and Edinburgh services back in 2016 after electrification? Wigan already has good services up the WCML. Bolton (pop 300,000) and Chorley (100,000) have not.

It's been decided that the Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services will permanently remain on the Wigan route.

The Barrow/Windermere/Blackpool services will be unaffected and will carry on via Bolton.
 

GRALISTAIR

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It's been decided that the Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services will permanently remain on the Wigan route.

The Barrow/Windermere/Blackpool services will be unaffected and will carry on via Bolton.

So basically a slight inconvenience of a change in Preston. IMHO I would rather do that as I could switch to a Pendo and not have a conventional EMU all the way.
 

lancastrian

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It's been decided that the Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services will permanently remain on the Wigan route.

That is a real pain. I was hoping that we would get our through Scottish services back. My wife travels three times a year to visit our daughter in the north of Scotland, so it was great for her to get to Aviemore with only the one change at Waverley.

If this is true then it will take longer to get there with the additional change at Preston. I could drive to Preston from Bolton, but it would be really annoying to find somewhere to park to drop my wife off and to pick her up, when Bolton station is so convenient for us and easy for us to park nearby (with NO parking costs for me, as I park on my works car park).

I really hope that when all the North West Electrification is complete that we get our through service back. Preston and even Wigan have no shortage of Scottish services without the Manchester Airport to Glasgow/Edinburgh services via Bolton & Chorley.

Yet another example if it happens of putting operating convenience before the Customer.
 

Eagle

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Yet another example if it happens of putting operating convenience before the Customer.

So speeding up journeys for travellers from Manchester to Scotland (who are way more numerous than Bolton to Scotland), and making those trains more frequent and less overcrowded, isn't a customer benefit then?
 

YorkshireBear

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So speeding up journeys for travellers from Manchester to Scotland (who are way more numerous than Bolton to Scotland), and making those trains more frequent and less overcrowded, isn't a customer benefit then?

Of course not? You know the greater good does not apply to personal journeys.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That is a real pain. I was hoping that we would get our through Scottish services back. My wife travels three times a year to visit our daughter in the north of Scotland, so it was great for her to get to Aviemore with only the one change at Waverley.

If this is true then it will take longer to get there with the additional change at Preston. I could drive to Preston from Bolton, but it would be really annoying to find somewhere to park to drop my wife off and to pick her up, when Bolton station is so convenient for us and easy for us to park nearby (with NO parking costs for me, as I park on my works car park).

I really hope that when all the North West Electrification is complete that we get our through service back. Preston and even Wigan have no shortage of Scottish services without the Manchester Airport to Glasgow/Edinburgh services via Bolton & Chorley.

Yet another example if it happens of putting operating convenience before the Customer.

For three times a year her journey will probably be no longer as the 350s will be quicker from Preston to Scotland (110mph most likely within 12 months of start of operation) than the 185s so a good connection (likely due to amount of Bolton-Preston trains) will most likely have little impact overall.

What about Wigan now having a fast service to Manchester as apposed to Bolton which had many? That is a benefit to the Customer too?
 

Bevan Price

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So basically a slight inconvenience of a change in Preston. IMHO I would rather do that as I could switch to a Pendo and not have a conventional EMU all the way.

Many passengers, especially the elderly and those with heavy luggage, do not regards a change as a "minor inconvenience".
 

Moonshot

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Many passengers, especially the elderly and those with heavy luggage, do not regards a change as a "minor inconvenience".


Which is no worse than the 1000s who do that, have done that, and will continue to do that when travelling to London and then making onward journeys by tube etc....

No one can moan about it because timetables are there in black and white, or in multicolour if you happen to use a PC. Uk rail runs 25000 services a day.....but even at that level, there are bound to be journeys from A to B where a change is required. For me personally an ideal service would be Fairfield to West Ealing direct to visit son....but it aint gonna happen.
 

Eagle

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I wonder if there are some figures for how many people travel from Bolton to Glasgow or Edinburgh, to compare them to people travelling from Bolton to places already needing a change of train (popular ones probably including London, Leeds or Liverpool).
 

Bevan Price

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I wonder if there are some figures for how many people travel from Bolton to Glasgow or Edinburgh, to compare them to people travelling from Bolton to places already needing a change of train (popular ones probably including London, Leeds or Liverpool).

Agreed that there cannot be through services between everywhere and everywhere else, but Bolton & Chorley are quite large towns. So, to me, the more interesting question is if (or how many) fewer passengers will travel between Bolton & Carlisle / Scotland when the through service hs ceased ?
 

Leylandlad

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Agreed that there cannot be through services between everywhere and everywhere else, but Bolton & Chorley are quite large towns. So, to me, the more interesting question is if (or how many) fewer passengers will travel between Bolton & Carlisle / Scotland when the through service hs ceased ?

Are there figures available for passenger numbers to/from Bolton/Chorley to Lancaster and stations to Glasgow/Edinburgh? Cutting the through services surely cant increase the numbers...?

I always assumed the switch to Chat Moss was temporary until Manc-Preston was wired. I was surprised when it was confirmed it was permanent :roll:
 

YorkshireBear

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Are there figures available for passenger numbers to/from Bolton/Chorley to Lancaster and stations to Glasgow/Edinburgh? Cutting the through services surely cant increase the numbers...?

I always assumed the switch to Chat Moss was temporary until Manc-Preston was wired. I was surprised when it was confirmed it was permanent :roll:

It might improve passenger numbers overall though but increasing Manchester - Scotland journeys as they are no longer being squeezed intro a train full of Bolton and Chorley Commuters.

It is quicker via Chat Moss, gives Wigan a fast service to Manc which it has not had in recent years regularly and also stops Bolton and Chorley commuters clogging up a (what should be) intercity service.
 

DynamicSpirit

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It is quicker via Chat Moss, gives Wigan a fast service to Manc which it has not had in recent years regularly and also stops Bolton and Chorley commuters clogging up a (what should be) intercity service.

Umm, I agree with most of your points, but surely your point about commuters will basically be cancelled out by Wigan-Manchester commuters clogging up the new service... (especially if there are no other fast Wigan-Manchester services!)
 

WatcherZero

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Which is why they wont be stopping in Wigan at the height of peak.

The Northern Hub plan originally proposed two hourly Wigan fasts via Chat Moss, TPE becomes one so there could/should still be another at some point in the future.
 
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YorkshireBear

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Umm, I agree with most of your points, but surely your point about commuters will basically be cancelled out by Wigan-Manchester commuters clogging up the new service... (especially if there are no other fast Wigan-Manchester services!)

Do not think Wigan will be as high as Bolton and Chorley combined as FTPE will not be a turn up and go frequency. Unlike Bolton and Chorley which make them attractive.
 

Francis

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Just been checking timings from Manchester up to Preston

Manchester Piccadilly to Preston calling at Bolton and Chorley 37 mins
39 mins with extra stop at Horwich Parkway
Manchester Oxford Road to Preston via Wigan 37 mins non-stop
38 mins with stop at Wigan. Add 4 mins extra to Piccadilly.
Once both routes are electrified, will there be any time advantage at all running on the longer route via Wigan?

There is an advantage in giving Wigan an hourly fast (24 minute) service to Manchester Oxford Rd. and Piccadilly. The present services from Wallgate via Bolton take 34 mins, or 36 mins on the Atherton route with three or four stops. The main cause of the slow service here is the poor track condition (50 mph max?) on the Atherton line. It was once the L&Y main line so it could probably, if upgraded, provide a 25 min service from Wigan to Manchester.
TPE trains through Chorley were already usually full anyway. Now we have one less per hour.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Manchester Oxford Road to Preston via Wigan 37 mins non-stop
38 mins with stop at Wigan. Add 4 mins extra to Piccadilly.
Once both routes are electrified, will there be any time advantage at all running on the longer route via Wigan?

The Chat Moss route is also due to be upgraded to 90mph next year (75 over the Moss itself) so that will speed things up a bit.
 

Welshman

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The main cause of the slow service here is the poor track condition (50 mph max?) on the Atherton line. It was once the L&Y main line so it could probably, if upgraded, provide a 25 min service from Wigan to Manchester.

Which would just about return it to what was being regularly achieved by Cl.110 dmus in 1962! :roll:
 
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