Blackpool lines- decline and fall

[Taunton]

Yes, having lots of coaching stock idle for much of the year was uneconomic. But, it was not exactly new stock; it had probably long repaid its building costs, and was retained with just enough basic maintenance to keep it useable for things like summer extras, which was then considered preferable to the current situation with short formations and frequent overcrowding. Of course, the change in UK holiday patterns & destinations was inevitably going to reduce the need for a lot of that old coaching stock.

Uneconomic? Really? Fully depreciated, cheap, and unlike today they were simple coaches. Motive power would come from the freight side, idle at weekends, likewise the crews. The coaches possibly didn't even have heating - not too important when the loco couldn't supply steam heat anyway.

Beeching went on about uneconomic excursion stock, without grasping that the figures produced for their "costs"were a fiction. BR costing methods were crude, simply take all the maintenance costs for labour, parts, cleaning etc, and divide them by the total number of vehicles to get a cost per vehicle. Of course, the vast majority of this effort went on the all-day main line stock, but the figures weren't collated down to that level, it was easy, and to an extent advantageous to hide actual effort differences in the averaging.

 

[coppercapped]

Yes, having lots of coaching stock idle for much of the year was uneconomic. But, it was not exactly new stock; it had probably long repaid its building costs, and was retained with just enough basic maintenance to keep it useable for things like summer extras, which was then considered preferable to the current situation with short formations and frequent overcrowding. Of course, the change in UK holiday patterns & destinations was inevitably going to reduce the need for a lot of that old coaching stock.

The issue about this was that the long tail of 6000 coaches were the oldest in the system, some dating back to the First World War if not earlier. These were hardly a good advertisement for the modern railway having been subject to a regime of minimum maintenance and cleaning at a time when more of the general population could afford cars with up to date facilities.

Much of such stock would also have had peak use in the week and weekend 'excursion' traffic gave it something to do rather than sitting idle, so perhaps there was not as much retained just for this traffic than at first appears. Other factors come into play too of course, primarily staffing levels (as opposed to wages) making everything more expensive than it should have been.

I think you have misinterpreted the Beeching report data. Beeching wrote:

(These data which relate) to 1959:-

Total number of gangwayed coaches allocated to fast and semi-fast services .. .. .. .. .. .. 18,500

Number in year-round service .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 5,500
Additional vehicles for regular summer service .. .. .. .. .. .. 2,000
Available for high peak service .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..8,900
Under repair .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. . ..2,100

A large number of the coaches available for high peak traffic were only required on a limited number of occasions as the following table, relating to the last 6,000 vehicles in the fleet, shows:-

Number of Coaches Required on not more than:
2,000 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..10 occasions
2,000 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..14 occasions
2,000 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..18 occasions

The annual cost of providing the 6,000 coaches was E3.4m. Against this it was estimated that they only earned £0.5m after allowing for all other costs of the movements concerned.

So of the 18,500 coaches only 5,500 (less than a third of the total) were needed all the year round together with another 2,000 for the additional regular and lengthened trains run in the summer timetable. The coaches used for peak services throughout the year some of which may have been used for 'bucket and spade' traffic at weekends are not included in the long tail of 6,000 coaches which spent most of their lives doing nothing. Except rusting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2022 ==

Uneconomic? Really? Fully depreciated, cheap, and unlike today they were simple coaches. Motive power would come from the freight side, idle at weekends, likewise the crews. The coaches possibly didn't even have heating - not too important when the loco couldn't supply steam heat anyway.

All rrue. But were these old fashioned and dusty coaches competitive in the new order of growing motor car ownership?

Beeching went on about uneconomic excursion stock, without grasping that the figures produced for their "costs"were a fiction. BR costing methods were crude, simply take all the maintenance costs for labour, parts, cleaning etc, and divide them by the total number of vehicles to get a cost per vehicle. Of course, the vast majority of this effort went on the all-day main line stock, but the figures weren't collated down to that level, it was easy, and to an extent advantageous to hide actual effort differences in the averaging.

BR's costing methods may have been crude back in the early 1960s, but they were a lot better than those available even a few years earlier. Management accounting in the railways has come on by leaps and bounds since those days - but they had to start somewhere and one can argue that it was already 15 years too late.

 

[RT4038]

and the feeling even then , that the motor coach was seen to be better than rail (despite a wide range of rail services with complex and varied "extras" - cheapness being a key factor for the not too well paid workers of that era.

Road Motor Coaches were a lot cleaner, and would make a refreshment stop on the way. They were more modern, and travelling by them showed that you could afford them over the dirty old steam trains.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Anecdotal but when I started spotting early 1970 we used to go to Preston on Saturday morning for all the summer specials to Blackpool. Now and again we would see some unusual motive power. Peaks, Class 37, 26/27 and my favorite- named Brush 4 D1660-1677. Those were the days I remember with great fondness.

 

[Springs Branch]

According to Gordon Suggit's " Lost Railways of Lancashire" regular scheduled services on the Marton line continued until 1965 - is anyone with an LMR 1964/5 timetable able to confirm that? - and excursions continued until 1967. That means platform 3 and 4 at South only finally closed in 1967 doesn't it ?. I assume that no excursions went into South after 1967 as the two remaining platforms would have struggled to cope / there was more than enough capacity at North.

The Timetable World website has a LMR Passenger TT covering June 1965 - April 1966. Table 98 has the Blackpool & Fleetwood line services.

I won't take the mick with TW's copyright by posting screenshots (too useful a resource to do that to), but in summary - there was a handful of regular scheduled services still going direct via Marton in Summer 1965, but only on weekends, not Monday to Friday (the clue is a fast 18-20 min journey from Preston, and obviously no stops along the coast).

These trains were:-

• Down direction
• 08:40 SO Manchester Vic - Blackpool S. (arr. 10:00). Dated 19 June to 4 Sep 1965.
• 12:52 SO Leeds Central - Blackpool S. (arr. 15:12). Dated 19 June to 4 Sep 1965.
• 14:35 SO Manchester Vic - Blackpool S. (arr. 15:52). Dated 19 June to 4 Sep 1965.
  
  
• 10:10 SuO Liverpool Exchange - Blackpool S. (arr. 11:19). Dated 11 July to 15 Aug 1965.
  
  Up direction
• 12:40 SO Blackpool S. - Manchester Vic. Dated 19 June to 4 Sep 1965.
• 19:36 SO Blackpool S. - Leeds Central. Dated 19 June to 4 Sep 1965.
• 20:50 SO Blackpool S. - Manchester Vic. Dated 19 June to 4 Sep 1965.
  
  
• 20:14 SuO Blackpool S. - Liverpool Exchange. Dated 11 July to 15 Aug 1965.

 

[tbwbear]

he Timetable World website has a LMR Passenger TT covering June 1965 - April 1966. Table 98 has the Blackpool & Fleetwood line services.

Oh, that's a very good find - I knew he had 1962 up there but the 1965 one must be relatively new.

So, I have my own copy of the following 1966/67 LMR passenger TT. In it the only trains that go to Bpl South non-stop from Preston are the SO Leeds train and the SUO Liverpool train shown in your list. But, both are timed for 28/29 minutes from Preston, enough time to go around the coast non-stop. In fact both down trains and the up Liverpool survive as non-stop between Preston and Blackpool South until the 1969/70 timetable, the last one before the Kirkham shuttle began in 1970 (which I also have a copy of).

From this, we can say that Suggit is correct: the last scheduled trains in the PTT along the Marton line were in the summer of 1965, they would be the ones that you list above.

If it ran, the 20:50 Blackpool S - Manchester Vic on Saturday 4th September 1965 was the last train in the PTT ever to run on the line?

such traffic may have continued until 3 September 1966, with formal closure on 13 February 1967. The section at the Blackpool end remained in use for goods traffic to Marton Gas Works until around 1971.

Suggit also suggests the Marton line was used for excursion traffic to Blackpool South "until 1967", so that would support what Gloster is saying about traffic continuing until 3rd September 1966 and the point about the direct platforms (3/4) formally closing on 13 February 1967 would also seem to make sense.

We have no information yet on what/when the last passenger train to traverse the whole line was, or when the line was lifted?

The gas works part is confusing me though. The 1969 OS map (One Inch - Sheet 94) at the Library of Scotland shows the whole Marton line lifted including the lines into the gas works. The gas works itself is intact but no longer connected by rails. The same map shows the sidings north of Blackpool South intact. The map could be in error of course, but is it conceviable that it is not? There must be a record of the date of track lifting somewhere ?

 

[Andy873]

The 1969 OS map (One Inch - Sheet 94) at the Library of Scotland shows the whole Marton line lifted including the lines into the gas works.

Be careful with what you see on these OS maps!

Researching my old line (Great Harwood loop line), the 1966 one shows no track West of Padiham i.e. at Great Harwood it's as if someone had just rubbed out the track. In fact only one of the two tracks was lifted - the other (up line) remained until Sept 1967.

There must be a record of the date of track lifting somewhere ?

My line was built by the Lancashire & Yorkshire railway co, and I found that there is a society called (strangely enough!) the Lancashire & Yorkshire railway society. I contacted them and asked if they had any info / knew anyone who could help - and boy did that help!!

They passed me onto a very informed person who lived in the area who answered all sort of questions.

Also, after searching online, I found a website "steaming north" which had photos of the line including the final track lift, the demolition train (8F 48218) which I saw!

From all of the above, it was confirmed that it was finally lifted around September 1967 - the "steaming north" website even has photos of the men lifting the final track.

Regarding train traffic:
My 1963 working time table shows 19 daily trains going to Blackpool, of which only 1 goes to North station, the rest go to Central. Sadly the WTT does not state which route the Central trains go as it's out of the WTT area covered.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[tbwbear]

Be careful with what you see on these OS maps!

Point taken.

The OS map could very well be wrong. Perhaps they removed the line on the map in anticipation, and a single line was kept to the gas works ?

The 1978 SK Baker Atlas actually shows a short stub at the Kirkham end of the Marton line labelled "CCE tip". That is not on the OS map either.

It would be interesting to know all the exact dates though. I am actually a member of the L&YR society and your suggestion to contact them is an excellent one.

 

[Springs Branch]

Suggit also suggests the Marton line was used for excursion traffic to Blackpool South "until 1967", so that would support what Gloster is saying about traffic continuing until 3rd September 1966 and the point about the direct platforms (3/4) formally closing on 13 February 1967 would also seem to make sense.

We have no information yet on what/when the last passenger train to traverse the whole line was, or when the line was lifted?
- - - - - -
There must be a record of the date of track lifting somewhere ?

I have a Working Timetable for the very last days of the Marton line - dated 18 April 1966 to 5 March 1967.

The WTT, is unambiguous that by 1966 absolutely everything to/from Blackpool South in the regular timetable was booked via the coast (all trains show a pass or dep. time at Lytham). Being a Passenger WTT, it included ECS, Parcels and Light Engine moves too, but no Freight.

As you mention, the three SO Leeds & Manchester and SuO Liverpool trains still ran in 1966 (give or take a few minutes), but all via the longer coast route.

Interestingly, you might have expected if the Marton route was still available, this would be a good way to send a sneaky Light Engine or ECS move to keep the rust off the rails - but this didn't seem to happen. At least not officially.

In summary - no extra clues from the 1966-67 WTT as to what the last trains might actually have been.


There may possibly have been Illuminations Specials and Excursions using the Marton line through October 1966, but I doubt if BR ran any bucket & spade excursions to Blackpool in mid-winter. Surely no-one would want a day trip there in January or February. But that's not to say there wasn't a mid-winter Railtour - or even a Football Special - that made a "last trip" via Marton in early 1967, as per Suggit's suggestion. Time for a trawl through Six Bells Junction, I suspect.

Regarding closures, maybe we could find info in Signal Notices announcing track & signalling alterations? Do we have any friendly members of the Signalling Record Society who could check their extensive (members only) database of these things?

 

[Andy873]

I am actually a member of the L&YR society and your suggestion to contact them is an excellent one

No problem, they should be able to point you in the right direction, and I understand the need to work it all out - I was exactly the same with my line.

Signalling notices - another excellent idea - yes let's hope we have a friendly SRS member around to help.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[WAO]

Road Motor Coaches were a lot cleaner, and would make a refreshment stop on the way. They were more modern, and travelling by them showed that you could afford them over the dirty old steam trains.

But they could never have had the capacity to deliver enough punters to keep the large economy of Blackpool alive. Blackpool's two main stations had 30 platforms between them!

I remember the unimproved A" roads of the '60's and the lack of town traffic management. The mid-life road coaches of the period were not that comfortable either - IIRC, 0.18m^2 per person versus 0,5m^2 on the train.

At the same time Kent and Sussex resorts, often seedier and less attractive than Blackpool had electrification and frequent 8-car trains.

Two Englands.

WAO

 

[Andy873]

and a single line was kept to the gas works ?

Be careful with this one too!

When I was trying to find out if the gas works (next to Great Harwood station) was still using coal etc to produce gas in 1964 (year of line closure)...

I contacted an expert in this field who showed me returns for the GH gas works - to my surprise it stopped producing gas from coal as early as around 1930. Until I was told about this I thought the works were still receiving large amounts of coal - how wrong was I!

So by say 1967, the gas works at Blackpool were mostly just storing gas produced somewhere else... can't prove it but it's mostly likely, especially as gas works producing gas from coal were let's just say "smelly" at the least.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[RT4038]

But they could never have had the capacity to deliver enough punters to keep the large economy of Blackpool alive. Blackpool's two main stations had 30 platforms between them!

I remember the unimproved A" roads of the '60's and the lack of town traffic management. The mid-life road coaches of the period were not that comfortable either - IIRC, 0.18m^2 per person versus 0,5m^2 on the train.

At the same time Kent and Sussex resorts, often seedier and less attractive than Blackpool had electrification and frequent 8-car trains.

Two Englands.

WAO

But by 1964 this level of business in Blackpool was already falling away quickly from the railways - people were voting with their feet and not availing themselves of the larger seats and general filth of railway rolling stock, whereas the coach business kept buoyant for longer.

I guess that there was a much greater all-year commuter and trip trade to Kent & Sussex resorts than the concentration to Blackpool in Wakes Weeks and on two bank holidays per year, which meant electrification could be financially justified. Kent resorts didn't get any electification until 1962.

 

[edwin_m]

Once the Southern commuter routes were electrified, it made sense to exploit the economies of scale and maximise the use of the investment in electrifying the more complicated bits nearer London by extending it to the coast. The frequent and modern electric service probably helped those places withstand the general decline in British seaside holidays, though some like Hastings were still hit hard.

For the same to happen in Blackpool would have needed a similar spread of electrification north of Manchester and east of Liverpool. This might have happened if WW1 hadn't, and/or if the L&Y, with its focus on fast and frequent regional service and interest in electrification, hadn't merged into the LMS which was more interested in long-distance passenger and freight.

 

[Revaulx]

What I would have done if I had been in charge of Blackpool, BR and the Treasury:

1. Closed the direct line.
2. Retained a double track line into Central, rebuilding it as a simple two-platform terminus.
3. Flogged off and redeveloped the rest of the Central site and the redundant carriage sidings.
4. Spruced up North, which was perfectly sited for the commercial centre and very close to the prom, and concentrated all the long distance services there.
5. Retained North's excursion platforms until certain they were no longer needed, and disposed of them at a later date.
6. Electrified both lines at the same time as Weaver Jn-Glasgow, along with the lines to Manchester and Liverpool.

This would have left Blackpool with a nice centrally sited main station and avoided the ridiculous situation with the Coast Line ending in the middle of nowhere, while getting rid of the vast amount of overcapacity. I visited North shortly before it was closed and demolished; the building was in perfectly good condition and just the right size, unlike Bradford Exchange with disappeared a little earlier but was vast and semi-ruinous.

 

[Magdalia]

But by 1964 this level of business in Blackpool was already falling away quickly from the railways - people were voting with their feet and not availing themselves of the larger seats and general filth of railway rolling stock, whereas the coach business kept buoyant for longer.

Holidaymakers staying for 1 or 2 weeks at English seaside resorts, and travelling by train, was already falling rapidly before Beeching. I've done some analyses of the ER PTTs which show that between 1961 and 1964 the number of summer Saturday dated trains advertised in the PTT fell by 40-50 per cent on the routes that I've looked at.

It is harder to tell with the day excursions but my impression is that the decline in traffic was not very great until Beeching, and then very rapid. I'm finding it hard to imagine the committees of miners' welfare and working men's clubs switching from rail to road until they were forced to.

 

[WAO]

Blakemore's book records a miners' rally in 1919 in Blackpool that required 130 specials to transport 97 000!

To be fair it wasn't just the Treasury or Southerners that dished the L&Y system; it was Northerners also (Merseyside honourably excepted) that favoured roads and private cars, without analysing the alternatives numerically.

To me it proves the wisdom of Walker and Missenden of the SR who effectively hid their excess coaching stock in EMU's rattling around the system off peak "every half hour" at low marginal cost but building up modest traffic and retaining the Southern middle class's confidence in and use of the local railway.

Blackpool (like Southport) did have respectable even luxurious L&Y commuter services. Perhaps they were too good; I couldn't imagine mill girls etc travelling in those opulent club cars off peak!

WAO

 

[Falcon1200]

Motive power would come from the freight side, idle at weekends, likewise the crews.

I'm not sure the freight crews worked for nothing on their rest days, nor that the fuel for the locos was free.

1. Closed the direct line.
2. Retained a double track line into Central, rebuilding it as a simple two-platform terminus.
3. Flogged off and redeveloped the rest of the Central site and the redundant carriage sidings.
4. Spruced up North, which was perfectly sited for the commercial centre and very close to the prom, and concentrated all the long distance services there.
5. Retained North's excursion platforms until certain they were no longer needed, and disposed of them at a later date.
6. Electrified both lines at the same time as Weaver Jn-Glasgow, along with the lines to Manchester and Liverpool.

Agree with all that, although getting either route to Blackpool electrified, or the vital routes to Manchester and Liverpool, was well beyond BR's means throughout its existence !
It has always seemed strange that a much-simplified route from South to Central was not retained, would it really have impacted the Council's dreams that much ?

 

[Merle Haggard]

I would like to make a few further points on the comments posted since my earlier post.

On clearer recollection, I exaggerated the number of day excursions; the number given was 48 not 58 (which I rounded to 60)
The majority of these came from the West Riding via Copy Pit and Lancashire but ones from further afield included Bristol (with an appearance of a Barrow Rd. Jubilee off its usual strict SW/NE workings). Blackpool was also popular in Scotland, particularly Glasgow, though I'm not sure of their were any day trips. Coming South, these turned left through the East Lancs platforms at Preston, right to join the Blackburn line West bound through Lostock Hall then right again to come back out on the Northern Union at Skew Bridge but facing North and so to Blackpool without reversal. Busked the interesting bit myself once!

Day excursions were for many the only option during the works holidays - I don't think we were poor, but a stay away was not affordable for my parents in the 1950s.

Road coaches weren't that good in the 1950s - early 60s. Likely to be one used on trips from school to the swimming baths in the week. Might have looked sleek and more modern than a steam train, but rattled (bits of trim sometimes fell off) with vibration, noise, leaked when it rained. Barbara Castle's introduction of the idea of a limit on coach drivers' hours was not well received in that industry, but the day excursion to the Illuminations would have been one driver working from one morning to the early hours of the next with little rest.

After a butterfly like early railway career it was decided, due to the apparent rarity of numerate railwaymen, that I was the ideal candidate to spend the rest of my time traffic-costing. I am untroubled by the general bad press that occupation seems to attract but, in my defence, I will make the point that in the complex network that was then B.R. there was a large number of possible ways to treat joint, shared, avoidable and marginal costs and these represented the overwhelming majority of cost causation in that environment . Using resources on their last legs is an example of the difficulty, although RfD did finally ran out of shoe-strings...

One of the factors that hasn't been mentioned is that British holiday resort organisations generally regarded their customers as fair game for exploitation. I remember the fish & chip restaurants where a board outside stated a price for that meal. The waitress under her breath committed you to also purchasing a slice of bread, a slab of butter and a pot of tea which, together, somehow resulted in a bill twice the advertised price. And 'residents' at B&Bs were unwelcome between the hours of 08.00 & 18.00, even in cases of torrential rain. The discovery that Spanish holiday resorts saw a connection between holidaymakers and their own own employment and income may also have been a factor in Blackpool losing trade. There were so many holidaymakers, that if you ripped off your customers the fact that they wouldn't return next year was not a worry. Pictures exist of the platforms at Central packed with passengers from the ramp to the exit and from coping edge to coping edge.

 

[Revaulx]

I'm not sure the freight crews worked for nothing on their rest days, nor that the fuel for the locos was free.



Agree with all that, although getting either route to Blackpool electrified, or the vital routes to Manchester and Liverpool, was well beyond BR's means throughout its existence !
It has always seemed strange that a much-simplified route from South to Central was not retained, would it really have impacted the Council's dreams that much ?

I thought that the original plan was to electrify most of the “branches” following the Glasgow electrification; even Barrow. I’m sure that was the case when electrification of the route was first announced in c1970.

 

[tbwbear]

It has always seemed strange that a much-simplified route from South to Central was not retained, would it really have impacted the Council's dreams that much ?

In one sense it is strange, but we have to remember that the original Beeching Plan intended to close Blackpool North (and Layton) and retain Central.

The railway was looking to save money and both Blackpool North and Layton and all the track as far as Poulton were supposed to be part of that saving.

One assumes that the money BR got from Blackpool Council for the Central site was enough to compensate ? In the end, only one station (Central) was lost instead of two and the amount of route mileage lost was less. In one (perverted) sense the town got a good deal - it was only supposed to end up with one terminal station within its boundary but it managed to retain two.

Central was in a far better location than North, nearer the promenade, at the foot of the Tower and nearer the central shopping zone. It wouldn't really have made sense to retain just two platforms there.

Would BR have even gone for that deal - effectively keeping both stations open ? And given that until 1970 it ran the main service from two platforms at South anyway, wouldn't it have done the same from Central? Then given that one of the main reasons for the 1970 switch to North was better access to the town, would that have happened in the same way?

No, if you were going to keep it at all, it would have been better to keep Central as the main station. Probably reducing it down in size by reusing or removing the excursion platforms - in the same as way as what happened at North.

Beeching had it right, they should have shut North, kept Central but shut the Marton line. The only loss would have been the Poulton/Layton-Blackpool North traffic, a counter to the actual loss of the Lytham St Annes-Blackpool Central traffic. Part of the Central site and all the area of the redundant sidings would still have been available for development - they probably could have still fitted in "Coral Island" somewhere.

If they had done that there is probably a good chance Fleetwood (the line to Wyre Dock was not in the Beeching Plan for closure) might have also been saved, certainly because closing it would have meant closing Poulton too (possibly a step too far) and it could easily have been worked as a Kirkham shuttle - in a mirror of what actually happened with the South Fylde line. By 1969 there would have been just two termini in the Fylde left, instead of the three that were actually left by then.

Just my twopenneth.....

 

[Andy873]

I think it's a great debate but one of the main questions was when was the line lifted / last train...

These can be hard to discover, let me give you examples:

I have a book about my old branch line, it tells me many things but states the demolition date of Simonstone station was unknown...

One of my contacts at the L&Y society told me the Lancashire Evening Telegraph (dated 30/12/1965) had the headlines "End of the Loop". It mentions 4 miles of track had been lifted between Great Harwood & Padiham, and goes on to say "the stations and buildings at both Great Harwood & Simonstone have been demolished".

This means Simonstone station was demolished at the same time as Great Harwood (Oct - Dec 1965) & the track removal.

Next, Padiham station. The book says it was demolished in 1967, okay but when in '67? I found that Burnley library had an archive copy of the Burnley Express from 17/8/2007 marking the 40th anniversary of the stations demolition.

The bottom line was Padiham station was demolished 19/8/1967!

So you see, sometimes books are a great start but you have to find those contacts / sources and ask very nicely for help, keep searching, and keep going!

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It's true that there was a cost to the railway in providing enough stock (although each rake could have several workings per day) but there has also been a large cost in the mauling (rather than modest decline) of local economies. There must be a fair balance somewhere. I hope that the NW EMU's will make a difference.

I've taken my family to Blackpool by car (never again) and queued for hours to see the lights. Roads do not have the required capacity. Railways do.

WAO

You can't view the lights from a train so it would either be walk the length and/or try to get on a tram.
My recollectionfrom the early 1960s is that each train length of carriages went to Blackpool and parked there or worked back inland to park then were dragged back to Blackpool to do the return working. Not several workings to and from big cities or distant counties.
How much would extra stock cost to buy or lease to do additional summer peak weekend workings and what would be the cost deficit to be eventually picked up by the taxpayer for those leisure trips ? That seems quite an important question.
In the mid 1960s I worked in Blackpool town centre and travelled from Preston. The rail commute was possible only slowly around the coast to Blackpool South both ways with a walk to town centre. On Saturdays there was no way to get to work by 8.30am so it was the service bus from Preston to Blackpool and return. You may appreciate why I had a fairly jaundiced view of the rail connection to Blackpool even though three routes were possible.
My last train journey to the Fylde Coast by train was fine on the way out but trains back from lunchtime were cancelled so it was the, at least free, service bus back to Preston to then catch a train to complete my journey so again a poor rail experience along this line.
Are numbers available of visitor numbers to Blackpool and the Fylde Coast who travel by rail and the number by road ?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Closure of the Marton Direct line did enable the M55 and its extension Yeadon Way to bring car and coaches directly to the Tower. Blackpool probably though it was doing the right thing in embracing the motor-age, but better road access did mean day-trips and short stays became the norm instead of traditional holidays. The irony is that a lot of the central site remained undeveloped - although that is about to change - apart from the police station (now closed) and the courts.

 

[WAO]

It's true that it's easier to see the lights by car; it's just the peak three hour queue through Blackpool to get to them. Then that's all you can do as you can't stop easily for your fish suppers or other doubtful purchases. When I last visited there looked to be plenty of room on the frequent trams and they did give a better, panoramic view than from inside a car.

I remember the large 1960's poster ads in the NW for day trips to Blackpool from the big cities - I think that it might have been 7/6d excursion return from Liverpool? - so the railway did try. Today's railway is of course mostly much improved, with fast EMU's spare at weekends, capable of intensive use and well marketed.

It will be interesting to see how the electric services affect travel to Blackpool as we come out of COVID (probably a separate topic)- present figures won't tell us much.

Wish I was back there, though!

WAO

 

[Revaulx]

@tbwbear Some good points! I’m not sure I agree that Central’s location was “far better” than the original North’s. The latter was also a sensibly-sized building in good condition. Central (from photos of the time) wasn’t.

What we ended up with was two termini; one in a less than ideal location, the other in an atrocious one. Given that most of the “suburban” (work, shopping etc.) traffic into Blackpool is presumably from the Coast line, it would seem sensible to have left those passengers with a simple station in a central location rather than dumping them in the middle of nowhere.

 

[WesternLancer]

Is there any easy to access map of the area (inc outside the town on the peninsula) showing the lines then and now / or with overlay to see how things have changed to now?

I'm struggling to understand how exactly things have changed over the time discussed in this interesting thread - it seems like quite considerable rationlisation as a result of the changes mentioned in all the various interesting posts on this thread.

 

[gg1]

Is there any easy to access map of the area (inc outside the town on the peninsula) showing the lines then and now / or with overlay to see how things have changed to now?

I'm struggling to understand how exactly things have changed over the time discussed in this interesting thread - it seems like quite considerable rationlisation as a result of the changes mentioned in all the various interesting posts on this thread.

The excellent National Library of Scotland mapping site, use the slider in the bottom left to switch between the current and historic views:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=53.81789&lon=-3.05464&layers=219&b=1

 

[tbwbear]

Is there any easy to access map of the area (inc outside the town on the peninsula) showing the lines then and now / or with overlay to see how things have changed to now?

I'm struggling to understand how exactly things have changed over the time discussed in this interesting thread - it seems like quite considerable rationlisation as a result of the changes mentioned in all the various interesting posts on this thread.

The National Library of Scotland is indeed a wonderful site.

It might not help much, but if you are after more general background, I wrote a short history of the railways around Blackpool on my blog here - it uses some of the maps from the Scotland site, particularly the 19th century ones. It is still missing a lot of detail, including all those closure dates mentioned by this thread, but it may be useful to someone who doesn't know the whole area. https://trainstobeyond.com/railways-around-blackpool/

 

[WesternLancer]

The excellent National Library of Scotland mapping site, use the slider in the bottom left to switch between the current and historic views:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=53.81789&lon=-3.05464&layers=219&b=1

Thanks - I'd forgotten about the slider functionality - most helpful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2022 ==

The National Library of Scotland is indeed a wonderful site.

It might not help much, but if you are after more general background, I wrote a short history of the railways around Blackpool on my blog here - it uses some of the maps from the Scotland site, particularly the 19th century ones. It is still missing a lot of detail, including all those closure dates mentioned by this thread, but it may be useful to someone who doesn't know the whole area. https://trainstobeyond.com/railways-around-blackpool/

Thanks for your link - I've had a quick look and enjoyed the bit I read - I shall certainly read it through properly as it's exactly what I was thinking of in terms of learning more about the area. I've only ever done the route to the current Blackpool North and had wondered about how things had developed.