Blackhorse Road to Staines

[IanD]

My daughter is wanting to visit Thorpe Park and we're looking at the best ticket to get with her 16-25 railcard.

I've looked on brfares.com

http://www.brfares.com/#fares?orig=BHO&dest=SNS&rlc=YNG

and can see a fare of £5 return with a route via Richmond or £7.90 route via London.

Is the via Richmond fare valid

Blackhorse Road (Victoria line) - Vauxhall - Staines
Blackhorse Road (Victoria+Bakerloo/Northern line) - Waterloo - Staines

as long as she takes a Staines bound train passing through Richmond rather than Brentford?

On some booking engines these show as valid and on others only the £7.90 fare appears for those routes with the £5 fare showing as valid via London Overground to Richmond avoiding zone 1 i.e. Blackhorse Road - Gospel Oak/Highbury and Islington - Richmond. I would have thought this route was intended for the not via London ticket @ £6.75.

Cheers

 

[Urban Gateline]

My personal interpretation (and I could well be wrong) is that the "via Richmond" fare is only valid on London Overground services going via Richmond and then transferring onto SWT services to Staines from there. I believe only the latter and more expensive fare is valid on London Underground. Hmm especially since you cannot normally start a Journey at a London Underground station on a National Rail ticket unless the ticket is a U123456 type ticket.

So the route would be Blackhorse Road to Gospel Oak, Gospel Oak to Richmond via Willesden Junction, then Richmond to Staines.

If you found and intinerary stating that using London Underground as you described in your original post is acceptable on the cheaper ticket then by all means book and print the itinerary and give it to your daughter to take with her just in case Staff do decide to challenge that route.

 

[bb21]

By the literal interpretation of the NRG, I believe that Blackhorse Road - Staines Route Via Richmond tickets are valid via central London although you will need to pay separately for the cross-London transfer.

Blackhorse Road is a member of Walthamstow Group routeing point, Staines is a routeing point.

Walthamstow Group to Staines is permitted on maps LONDON, OV, OV+WX.

Using map code LONDON, permitted routes can be constructed by combining permitted routes from Walthamstow Group to London Group, and those from London Group to Staines.

Walthamstow Group to London is permitted on maps TS, WA.
London Group to Staines is permitted on maps WX.

A permitted route can thus be produced satisfying the routeing restriction of this fare going through Richmond as Walthamstow Group - Hackney Group - Liverpool Street - (cross-London transfer) - Waterloo - Richmond - Staines, amongst others.

The NRG makes provisions for inclusive cross-London travel where the Maltest Cross is missing however only in the case of Any Permitted fares. Via Richmond is not Any Permitted hence I do not see any provision for inclusive cross-London travel.

Having said all that, the intention of the Route Via Richmond fare is pretty clear and you may experience problems at central London termini gatelines. Route Via Richmond is pretty poor wording for this fare. It would have been more appropriate to name it Route Via Willesden Jn or something similar if the intention is indeed for the passenger to avoid Zone 1.

 

[gage75]

you could also get a travelcard w/Staines extension from Feltham return to make use of the fast service out of Waterloo

 

[clagmonster]

Is the via Richmond fare valid

Blackhorse Road (Victoria line) - Vauxhall - Staines
Blackhorse Road (Victoria+Bakerloo/Northern line) - Waterloo - Staines

I would say no, for as BB21 says, with a routeing of Richmond and no Maltese cross, there is no allowance for cross London travel, hence the ticket is not valid to Zone U1* London, hence interavailable travel on the northern end of the Victoria line does not apply. See: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1315636 for details of interavailable travel on the Victoria Line.

 

[IanD]

Thanks guys.

She's not that confident using trains :roll: so to keep it simple, I'll advise her to get the £7.90 ticket then she can do a simple 1 change at Vauxhall.

RSH are showing £5 fare for Blackhorse-Victoria-ClaphamJ-Staines but I that's probably too many changes for her and she wouldn't stand her ground if confronted even with a printed itinerary.

I had 1 site suggest Victoria Line to Finsbury Park, FCC to Kings X, Victoria Line to Vauxhall, SWT to Staines (not sure which but I put via Vauxhall in the options).

 

[bb21]

Blackhorse Road and Vauxhall are both interchange stations so I would think Victoria Line to Vauxhall and then SWT to Staines would be the easiest (one change only) with the more expensive ticket.

 

[Be3G]

Note, however, that only two of the four fast-ish trains an hour from London to Staines stop at Vauxhall.