Bizarre Experience on East Coast

[jcevans]

Hi there,

Just thought I would flag this up as an issue for East Coast staff! Today (Mon) I took the train from Bingley to London Kings Cross.

As some of you may know there is no ticket machine at Bingley after 7pm and tickets have to be bought on the train or upon arrival at Leeds station. No conductor was aboard the Northern train between Bingley and Leeds and so I boarded the 2045 East Coast service to Kings Cross ticketless. Due to the ticket barriers I couldn't buy a ticket from the office at Leeds and thought the process would be easier aboard the East Coast service.

Throughout the entire 2hr30min journey I wasn't ticketed. There was a buffet Cart but no ticket inspector. Then, upon arrival at Kings Cross the ticket barriers were unstaffed and open!

East Coast lost themselves around £90.00 in revenue due to laziness? Is this the norm for late Leeds-London trains? They must loose a lot in revenue if so.

 

[bb21]

If you want to clear your conscience you can always post them a cheque for the fare owed.

Seriously, how long did you have to interchange at Leeds?

 

[blackfive460]

Isn't there a booking office at Kings Cross?
I feel sure they would have been happy to sell you a ticket...

 

[cuccir]

There is a ticket office at Kings Cross, open until half 1 in the morning. East Coast have lost revenue because you failed in your obligation to purchase your ticket on arrival.

I do note, however, that the obligation to buy on arrival is one that many (myself until about 3 years ago included) would not be aware of.

 

[43167]

There are ticket selling windows on the platform near platform 1 for passengers who have been unable buy a ticket prior to arriving at Leeds.

 

[jcevans]

If you want to clear your conscience you can always post them a cheque for the fare owed.

Seriously, how long did you have to interchange at Leeds?

10 minutes but assumed it was unthinkable that a conductor wouldn't come around the train en route to London.

How many of you would have paid upon arrival at Kings cross by going to the ticket office? I do feel bad!

 

[williamus]

How many of you would have paid upon arrival at Kings cross by going to the ticket office? I do feel bad!

Obviously I'm a mug, but I would. It's stealing, surely?

 

[Andrewlong]

Surely the train could not have left Leeds without a guard on board ? And the train wouldn't have been that busy at that time of night? Given that many barriered stations are left open late at night, you would have thought a sweep through the train would have been a sensible move ?

 

[jcevans]

Hence the post!

They certainly had staff for the buffet trolley to come down about 4 times. The fact it did made me sure that a ticket check would take place at some point.

 

[samxool]

10 minutes but assumed it was unthinkable that a conductor wouldn't come around the train en route to London.

How many of you would have paid upon arrival at Kings cross by going to the ticket office? I do feel bad!

i'll call it.
in your situation, if i got to kings cross, and the barriers were unstaffed and open, I would have walked up to the barriers, had a good look about to make sure there definitely is no staff/RPI's about. If not, then i would have walked through the barriers and out the station without paying a penny.
I'm not for fare dodging, but if the railway company has chosen not to bother trying to charge me for a ticket, then it's not my fault if i don't get to buy a ticket.
you saved yourself £90 despite you wanting to be able to pay for the ticket, use it for beer money or a nice meal somewhere! Once you are through the barriers, you're journey is over, and the railway company should have given you an opportunity before then for you to pay.
I don't intentionally dodge fares. I will always pay my fare before or during the journey. But if they have made it actually impossible to pay for a fare like in your journey, then so be it, i chalk it up to a free journey. It rarely ever happens, and consider how much i pay for my season ticket, its the least that could happen!
It only would have gone into lining the pockets of the shareholders anyway!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Obviously I'm a mug, but I would. It's stealing, surely?

how? he hasn't stolen anything.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Not so unusual, I often travel between Milton Keynes and Liverpool, there are rarely any ticket checks. Granted there are barriers in MK but I have a season ticket (LBZ-MKC) and don't need the Liverpool ticket to open them. Always have ticket though as company pays

 

[yorkie]

If there's a 'sting' in operation, any customers seen exiting platforms without heading towards the ticket office, could be prosecuted. There are many examples but the Glossop one is particularly interesting Northern Rail: No ticket machine - accused of fare evasion as I visited Glossop soon after this and confirmed the ticket office had moved and was extremely well hidden!

As for...

due to laziness?.

...this is the sort of comment that can really annoy rail staff! To answer the question, we'd have to know whether or not the Guard was in possession of a working ticket machine (ie, not run out of battery power, ticket stock etc), and if the Guard was involved in (a) dispute(s) elsewhere in the train, or any other matter. So I guess the only person who can answer that is the Guard! In the absense of knowledge to the contrary, I would propose not making the suggestion at all.

 

[Deerfold]

I travel on the same trains as the OP every week (though starting/finishing at either Keighley or Steeton and Silsden).
I'd say my ticket isn't checked on about 1 in 5 Northern trains and about 1 in 5 EC trains (with evening services being more likely to not have any checks) - but because both are more likely to not have checks in the evening about a 10% chance of both not being checked.
I usually already have a ticket though.
Is the ticket machine at Bingley not available at that time? I thought it was accessible at all times.

 

[jcevans]

I suppose my surprise is how many times the bloody buffet trolley came blundering down. Has any operator thought of combining both roles in off peak periods?

 

[maniacmartin]

There is nothing bizarre about your experience. For the times I travel (north out of Kings Cross on Saturday mornings and back on Saturday evenings), its quite rare to get a ticket check on-board or at either end!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I suppose my surprise is how many times the bloody buffet trolley came blundering down. Has any operator thought of combining both roles in off peak periods?

Alex trains in Germany do (or did) something similar. The guard serves in the buffet car. Unfortunately this means that there is often noone serving as he's off checking tickets

 

[Deerfold]

Is the ticket machine at Bingley not available at that time? I thought it was accessible at all times.

Ah, presumably those gates are closed...

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_BIY/images/photos/800/o1231-0000025.jpg

 

[Crossover]

How many of you would have paid upon arrival at Kings cross by going to the ticket office? I do feel bad!

I appreciate your point entirely. I travelled at the end of last year from an unstaffed (and no TVM) railway station in West Yorkshire to Doncaster, and back, on GC.

Naturally, the earliest opportunity to purchase was on board the service. No-one came and checked in the hour long journey. When I arrived at Doncaster, I did the decent thing of purchase a ticket (also so I had the return for later)

The lady at the ticket office was rather surprised when I said I wanted a return FROM said station in WY, and clarified a couple of times.

This reaction, coupled with GC's buy-on-board policy means next time, I may not bother...

Got the GC service back and lo-and-behold...no ticket check there either!

I can't help but feel the TOC's don't help themselves sometimes...

 

[jopsuk]

I've once travelled without paying- boarded at an unstaffed station with a broken machine, train was DOO with no RPI, station at destination had gates open, no staff in sight and all ticket windows shut (just machines).

On the other hand, once boarded without a ticket at another broken machine station, got to gateline, gateline staff let me through the barrier on promise that I'd go buy a ticket- which I did. I think I was even sold a cheaper ticket than I'd have been able to buy at my origin had the machine been working- a super off peak return that was only available from the desitnation (I thus never used the "out"). Given how busy the station was they'd have had a hard job catching me if I'd just walked out.

 

[sheff1]

There is nothing bizarre about your experience. For the times I travel (north out of Kings Cross on Saturday mornings and back on Saturday evenings), its quite rare to get a ticket check on-board or at either end!

Same here, but in the opposite direction. I have mentioned before that I don't ever recall seeing the barriers at Kings Cross in use ... but, as we know from certain posters on here, the installation of barriers stops fare evasion at a stroke so there is then no need to check tickets on board

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Kings Cross barriers seem to be open more often than not from what I have seen. With so many entrances and exits there now if the barriers aren't going to work the only viable place they could do an RPI line is on the exit from the arrival platform onto the concourse. If they don't check you there and the barriers are open, that's it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[HST Power]

I travel First Class whenever I go into London, but more often than not I can do Kings Cross to Stevenage (with East Coast) without any ticket check whatsoever.

But get this - last week I spent over £170.00 on four days worth of First Class fares. Kings Cross to Stevenage, no checks. Barriers at my home station, one check on Thursday evening. Outbound to Kings Cross the barriers were always up in the morning, but on the train, nothing. I don't know where FCC are hiding their so called 'revenue inspectors who will carry out checks in uniform and plain clothes to protect our First Class customers' blah blah blah, because I haven't seen one in a very long time.

 

[jon0844]

If you want to clear your conscience, why not email EC and explain the situation and see what they say. I'd imagine they'd say don't worry about it, in which case you've been let off.

Or they'll ask for a cheque, but I think that unlikely.

Given there's a night window, there was an opportunity to pay at KGX. It's down along platform 8 for future reference, but I didn't know it closed at 1.30. I thought it was all night, but given the last FCC service goes at 0136 I guess there's little need to be open longer.

 

[RJ]

Surely the train could not have left Leeds without a guard on board ? And the train wouldn't have been that busy at that time of night? Given that many barriered stations are left open late at night, you would have thought a sweep through the train would have been a sensible move ?

Some guards don't bother with tickets on their last trip. Over a two year period of regular travel on East Midlands Trains, my ticket was never checked on southbound services from Leicester to St Pancras at/after 20:25.

 

[Tibbs]

If you want to clear your conscience, why not email EC and explain the situation and see what they say. I'd imagine they'd say don't worry about it, in which case you've been let off.

Or they'll ask for a cheque, but I think that unlikely.

Given there's a night window, there was an opportunity to pay at KGX. It's down along platform 8 for future reference, but I didn't know it closed at 1.30. I thought it was all night, but given the last FCC service goes at 0136 I guess there's little need to be open longer.

I wouldn't write, clear conscience or not. If there's a ticket window and it was open at the time you arrived, you're guilty of a byelaw 18 offence. To be frank, you'd have to be an idiot to draw attention to an offence no one knows you've committed.

Bear in mind TOCs have taken people to court over 20p, so to ask them to go, 'oh don't worry about £90' in my opinion is risky.

 

[MichaelAMW]

I wouldn't write, clear conscience or not. If there's a ticket window and it was open at the time you arrived, you're guilty of a byelaw 18 offence. To be frank, you'd have to be an idiot to draw attention to an offence no one knows you've committed.

Bear in mind TOCs have taken people to court over 20p, so to ask them to go, 'oh don't worry about £90' in my opinion is risky.

I don't think that's right, because 18(3) in the byelaws removes the guilt if there is no way to buy a ticket where the journey started and, in terms of what is usually in practical terms the reason a byelaw 18 offence is detected, the OP wasn't asked for a ticket during the journey.

 

[philjo]

I don't know where FCC are hiding their so called 'revenue inspectors who will carry out checks in uniform and plain clothes to protect our First Class customers' blah blah blah, because I haven't seen one in a very long time.

My season ticket has been checked twice so far this week on FCC GN services. this morning the RPI came through after we left WGC.

 

[NJTom]

in terms of trying to buy a fare, I travelled from a request stop, to my destination with my railcard and full cash fare on the table in front of me for an hour. The guard ignored me, and the cash and we arrived at our destination. Line at the ticket office, train is delayed, am late for the movie. No revenue inspectors, clear path to the exit and the single fare is virtually the same anyway.

return, TO closed, board train, wave down guard ... he's not interested until he is asking for request stops, i request the stop and a ticket, he says ok. Never see him again.

Just sayin'

ATW if anyone cares.

 

[yorkie]

Most likely the guard did not have a functional ticket machine, it could have run out of stock, have a flat battery, or a fault.

 

[NJTom]

I'm sure it's more than that .. there are many times i've bought the return fare at the destination ticket office and they seem astonished that i didn't just buy a single on the way home.