Birmingham-Wolverhampton Problems 2-4-22

[SCDR_WMR]

Even during the Commonwealth Games? Surely no chance of it coping this summer. I have Games tickets and will be commuting from my sister's flat in Bletchley. Really hope to not have to stand xx

Yep, it's part of railway cost cutting measures from the treasury. Whether the company will try and introduce short term additional services I don't know currently, however that would require staffing they don't currently have, especially given the highly likelihood of industrial action around that time from both RMT and ASLEF

 

[Watershed]

EXACTLY!!! And yet myself and my colleagues from TPE are being vilified for refusing to work our days off unless a reasonable rest day work agreement is put in place

I'm not sure I see the connection between traincrew in general being (understandably) reluctant to do overtime on days where trouble can be expected, and a dispute over the amount which conductors are to be paid for Sunday working?

That and BTP actually issuing £1000 fines for trespass to people who do self-evac!

They can't issue fines, they are not a Court. They could offer an out of Court settlement and label it a Fixed Penalty Notice or whatever, but ultimately only a Court could convict someone of trespass and impose a fine. The maximum £1000 fine is only likely to come into question where the defendant is very wealthy.

Aim is 80% service which is what is run now, despite staff/passengers/managers calling for more.

Of course the problem is that you can't run 80% of a half-hourly service (unless you bin off early and late services, which would entail its own problems). You either run it half-hourly (100%) or hourly (50%). In the case of the Birmingham-Liverpool route, it's currently running at 50% and there seems to be no prospect of it ever returning to full strength.

It does seem rather curious that other half-hourly routes have been unaffected by the cutbacks, for example Birmingham-Rugeley. It all seems rather arbitrary.

 

[setdown]

Of course the problem is that you can't run 80% of a half-hourly service (unless you bin off early and late services, which would entail its own problems). You either run it half-hourly (100%) or hourly (50%). In the case of the Birmingham-Liverpool route, it's currently running at 50% and there seems to be no prospect of it ever returning to full strength.

It does seem rather curious that other half-hourly routes have been unaffected by the cutbacks, for example Birmingham-Rugeley. It all seems rather arbitrary.

I've found the train service requirement contract for West Midlands Trains effective until 2026, and it does indeed specify the Liverpool-Birmingham route to remain hourly. West Midlands Trains Limited 2021 rail contract - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

[Watershed]

I've found the train service requirement contract for West Midlands Trains effective until 2026, and it does indeed specify the Liverpool-Birmingham route to remain hourly. West Midlands Trains Limited 2021 rail contract - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The change to the TSR largely just reflects the reality on the ground. Nothing is set in stone these days, and the level of service could still change (in either direction) in the coming months and years.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I'm not sure I see the connection between traincrew in general being (understandably) reluctant to do overtime on days where trouble can be expected, and a dispute over the amount which conductors are to be paid for Sunday working?


They can't issue fines, they are not a Court. They could offer an out of Court settlement and label it a Fixed Penalty Notice or whatever, but ultimately only a Court could convict someone of trespass and impose a fine. The maximum £1000 fine is only likely to come into question where the defendant is very wealthy.


Of course the problem is that you can't run 80% of a half-hourly service (unless you bin off early and late services, which would entail its own problems). You either run it half-hourly (100%) or hourly (50%). In the case of the Birmingham-Liverpool route, it's currently running at 50% and there seems to be no prospect of it ever returning to full strength.

It does seem rather curious that other half-hourly routes have been unaffected by the cutbacks, for example Birmingham-Rugeley. It all seems rather arbitrary.

You know what I mean regarding the fines, obviously it's the court that issues them but clearly there is no current deterrent to using the egress and going trackside - this needs to change.

Also, the 80% was given for the entire franchise, there are clearly other cutbacks across other routes. They have chosen this route as there are other TOCs people can use - you choosing to compare to a WMT only route isn't really a fair comparison.

 

[philthetube]

fines are relevant but costs being perused, all that delay repay etc. would probably be more of a deterrent.

 

[6Gman]

Surely the common sense move would be for RSSB, ORR and the responsible adults to tell the operator's safety manager this...

- Trainfulls of football fans MUST NOT operate into short platforms. This also happened after a Wolves match last month, the local stopper was cancelled, so a stop order was given for the 8-car Liverpool to call at Tipton, which resulted in the line blocked for 55 minutes at Tipton and seemingly no lessons were learnt.

- A not to call order should be issued for Galton Bridge, Coseley etc when football is on, same out of Liverpool at Winsford, South Parkway etc after football and events.

How would people travel to/from Winsford in that case?

 

[185]

For skipped stations (on infrequest lines), either a bus on from the stop before or change at X and double back.

The real solution is platform extensions at a sensible job-lot cost. For example Galton Bridge needs just 15 foot on each side - totally wasteful at present.

 

[6Gman]

For skipped stations, either a bus on or change at X and double back.

Why?

Why not just let people who have bought a rail ticket travel on a rail service?

 

[185]

Because the line being suspended for an hour stranding thousands dwarfs the handful going to a minor station.

I am told the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of 6G. (Vulcan 11:31)

 

[gazzaa2]

And will still be hourly between May and December at least. I fear this is now the normal timetable, alas.

It wouldn't be so bad if the hourly service had the 8 cars, they often don't.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It wouldn't be so bad if the hourly service had the 8 cars, they often don't.

The New St - Lime St is almost always an 8 car. In fact in the last 12 months I've never worked a 4 car on that route that wasn't meant to be a 4 car

 

[setdown]

It wouldn't be so bad if the hourly service had the 8 cars, they often don't.

I had a 4-car last week in the morning peak, it wasn't too bad. That morning there were service updates saying that a few services would be 4 car throughout the entire day, but they managed to make them all 8 again before the evening peak. That shows that they realise 8 cars must be the standard, it would have been easy just to leave them short.

 

[gazzaa2]

The New St - Lime St is almost always an 8 car. In fact in the last 12 months I've never worked a 4 car on that route that wasn't meant to be a 4 car

I get the 09:06 from Lime Street on Sat morning. It's always been 4 when I've got it.

 

[Chucky]

Edited.

 

[6Gman]

Because the line being suspended for an hour stranding thousands dwarfs the handful going to a minor station.

I am told the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of 6G. (Vulcan 11:31)

Sorry, but how does stopping at Winsford result in "the line being suspended for an hour"?

And I haven't needed to use Winsford in years (but others rely on it e.g. to get to work).

I have used the 1804 on several occasions after football matches, when it does get very busy; the stops at Hartford and Winsford are actually useful because they do result in the train becoming less crowded.

 

[185]

Sorry, but how does stopping at Winsford result in "the line being suspended for an hour"?

You should again refer to the start of the thread, post number three explains what happened.

Part of the train idid not open due to a short platform.

Posts further up refer to football matches and events.

A combination of events and parts of trains not opening is repeatedly causing....

"the line being suspended for an hour"

 

[6Gman]

You should again refer to the start of the thread, post number three explains what happened.

Part of the train idid not open due to a short platform.

Posts further up refer to football matches and events.

A combination of events and parts of trains not opening is repeatedly causing....

Ah, fair point.

But any evidence of it happening at Winsford?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Ah, fair point.

But any evidence of it happening at Winsford?

Regularly. Winsford and Smethwick Galton Bridge are constantly issues regarding UDS operation and people ignoring repeated requests to move to the correct part of the train.

I get the 09:06 from Lime Street on Sat morning. It's always been 4 when I've got it.

I will double check, but that might be a booked 4 car service. I did say not worked a 4 car that wasn't meant to be i.e I've not worked a short formed service.

 

[setdown]

Regularly. Winsford and Smethwick Galton Bridge are constantly issues regarding UDS operation and people ignoring repeated requests to move to the correct part of the train.

I will double check, but that might be a booked 4 car service. I did say not worked a 4 car that wasn't meant to be i.e I've not worked a short formed service.

To be fair, the new screens on the 350s don't seem to reflect what carriage you're actually in. I've had it a couple of times where they try and display a helpful map of 'you are here' along with which are the right carriages to exit from, but the map just appears to switch between random carriages for your present location. (I did report that on Twitter whenever I've noticed it)

 

[SCDR_WMR]

To be fair, the new screens on the 350s don't seem to reflect what carriage you're actually in. I've had it a couple of times where they try and display a helpful map of 'you are here' along with which are the right carriages to exit from, but the map just appears to switch between random carriages for your present location. (I did report that on Twitter whenever I've noticed it)

Yes this fault has been logged. It cycles between carriages, however it does always state if you're in the front or rear set (i.e coach 5 cycles 5/6/7/8 and never 1-4). Quite how they've yet to rectify it I've no idea.

It can be easier to explain to passengers when you have the different seat colours, otherwise it's a look at the PIS in the roof of the coach to see which coach number you are in. A difficult system that causes havoc.

Much prefer the SDO type of operation personally.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

It can be easier to explain to passengers when you have the different seat colours

I've been on trains where the staff have done a very good job using this method to clearly explain to people which part of the train they should be in and how to get there. Even if the displays are wrong, there really is an effort made to clearly explain this. The problem of course is that the displays are useful because many, many people use headphones and therefore a visual cue is also needed and when that visual cue is wrong...

 

[87015]

Yes this fault has been logged. It cycles between carriages, however it does always state if you're in the front or rear set (i.e coach 5 cycles 5/6/7/8 and never 1-4). Quite how they've yet to rectify it I've no idea.

It can be easier to explain to passengers when you have the different seat colours, otherwise it's a look at the PIS in the roof of the coach to see which coach number you are in. A difficult system that causes havoc.

Much prefer the SDO type of operation personally.

There seems to be a competition to get the most wrong train input by a number of guards into Euston. Showing a random crosscity is regular but todays 350 showing a Stratford-Kidderminster was a new one. No corrective announcements of course.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

There seems to be a competition to get the most wrong train input by a number of guards into Euston. Showing a random crosscity is regular but todays 350 showing a Stratford-Kidderminster was a new one. No corrective announcements of course.

If you mean the PIS, it has nothing to do with the guards. Driver inputs the train headcode, the system does everything else.

 

[gazzaa2]

Regularly. Winsford and Smethwick Galton Bridge are constantly issues regarding UDS operation and people ignoring repeated requests to move to the correct part of the train.

I will double check, but that might be a booked 4 car service. I did say not worked a 4 car that wasn't meant to be i.e I've not worked a short formed service.

Any chance that train will be strengthened to 8 cars after May? It's uncomfortable at 4.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Any chance that train will be strengthened to 8 cars after May? It's uncomfortable at 4.

Haven't seen the new diagrams yet, still with LLC but will certainly check. Not expecting major changes other than the rerouting of the Crewe-New St via Stoke (taking even longer!)