Birmingham to Manchester off peak return

[Jamm]

I've started having regular trips between Birmingham and Manchester every weekend with occasional trips during weekday. All trips are outside morning peak period though not necessarily outside afternoon peak.

I've been buying any permitted off-peak day return tickets as it suits what I need - no travel during morning peak but any time after that.

I've been wanting to have a bit of variation on my trips.

Looking though routeing guide, am I correct in saying that a travel as far north as Warrington Stations group is allowed? If so, does it mean I am able to change at Crewe or Warrington Bank Quay?

Any suggestions for other routes? I'm happy to try out some routes as long as overall journey time is under 2 hours 30 minutes. I do have nTrain zonal ticket for rail zones 1-5 if that's any use.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I've started having regular trips between Birmingham and Manchester every weekend with occasional trips during weekday. All trips are outside morning peak period though not necessarily outside afternoon peak.

I've been buying any permitted off-peak day return tickets as it suits what I need - no travel during morning peak but any time after that.

I've been wanting to have a bit of variation on my trips.

Looking though routeing guide, am I correct in saying that a travel as far north as Warrington Stations group is allowed? If so, does it mean I am able to change at Crewe or Warrington Bank Quay?

Any suggestions for other routes? I'm happy to try out some routes as long as overall journey time is under 2 hours 30 minutes. I do have nTrain zonal ticket for rail zones 1-5 if that's any use.

You can change at any station as long as you're following a permitted route. Warrington is as far north as you can go on a BHM-MAN through ticket. I don't think there are any stations or stretches particularly worthwhile going out of your way for on the validity of that ticket, TBH. If anything, Wolverhampton to Stafford on a Pendolino is quite nice, but that would mean changing to get to Manchester - e.g. at Crewe (or Warrington).

There are some reasonable savings to be made by splitting on this journey (not as much as for most XC routes, but still a worthwhile amount IMO), for example at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Stoke. Obviously this restricts your choice of routes significantly, for example you can't take the trains that go via Crewe.

There are also some 'unorthodox' savings to be made by using tickets with very generous routeing valdiity; however, I would strongly recommend not using these on XC as they tend to be very strict on revenue.

If you are willing to restrict your choice of trains even more in the name of saving money, you could get a walkup ticket BHM-SOT (or XC advance; these are even available up to 15 mins before departure). From there on you could take the stopping Northern train - quite slow, but Advances are dirt cheap and also available on the day.

 

[Jamm]

You can change at any station as long as you're following a permitted route. Warrington is as far north as you can go on a BHM-MAN through ticket. I don't think there are any stations or stretches particularly worthwhile going out of your way for on the validity of that ticket, TBH. If anything, Wolverhampton to Stafford on a Pendolino is quite nice, but that would mean changing to get to Manchester - e.g. at Crewe (or Warrington).

There are some reasonable savings to be made by splitting on this journey (not as much as for most XC routes, but still a worthwhile amount IMO), for example at Wolverhampton, Stafford and Stoke. Obviously this restricts your choice of routes significantly, for example you can't take the trains that go via Crewe.

There are also some 'unorthodox' savings to be made by using tickets with very generous routeing valdiity; however, I would strongly recommend not using these on XC as they tend to be very strict on revenue.

If you are willing to restrict your choice of trains even more in the name of saving money, you could get a walkup ticket BHM-SOT (or XC advance; these are even available up to 15 mins before departure). From there on you could take the stopping Northern train - quite slow, but Advances are dirt cheap and also available on the day.

Thank you for very helpful reply! I just have one more question.

Looking at realtimetrains website, trains from Birmingham to Scotland stops at Crewe xx:08 and trains bound for Manchester Picc from London Euston leaves at xx:12. Would this interchange be possible?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank you for very helpful reply! I just have one more question.

Looking at realtimetrains website, trains from Birmingham to Scotland stops at Crewe xx:08 and trains bound for Manchester Picc from London Euston leaves at xx:12. Would this interchange be possible?

If everything is running bang on time, I think I'd just about be able to make it. If you can't walk/run quickly, or don't know Crewe station, or have luggage, no chance. Crewe is a fairly large station and it's 4 mins is well below the official minimum change time of 10 mins, which you must observe if you want to claim delay compensation, or if you want to have a 'valid' itinerary, e.g. in order to be allowed on a later-than-booked train if you have multiple Advances and were delayed earlier in the journey.

Sorry.

 

[andythebrave]

Taking a couple of random historic dates it would seem that this is doable roughly 50% of the time. Typically ex Birmingham uses platform 11 and Manchester leaves from 5 which is over the bridge. On the 50% of times it has been possible the typical time to get over has been around 2-3 minutes.

 

[Jamm]

If everything is running bang on time, I think I'd just about be able to make it. If you can't walk/run quickly, or don't know Crewe station, or have luggage, no chance. Crewe is a fairly large station and it's 4 mins is well below the official minimum change time of 10 mins, which you must observe if you want to claim delay compensation, or if you want to have a 'valid' itinerary, e.g. in order to be allowed on a later-than-booked train if you have multiple Advances and were delayed earlier in the journey.

Sorry.

That's unfortunate, although I do think it's still worth trying out. A break from XC is solely needed.

However there's Manchester bound Northern Trains leaving about 5 minutes later if I miss the connection, so it's not that bad and I don't plan on using advanced tickets for such connections anyway.

Taking a couple of random historic dates it would seem that this is doable roughly 50% of the time. Typically ex Birmingham uses platform 11 and Manchester leaves from 5 which is over the bridge. On the 50% of times it has been possible the typical time to get over has been around 2-3 minutes.

Do both Virgin Train services use the same line into Crewe station (i.e. if one gets delayed then other service is also delayed)?

 

[yorkie]

I've started having regular trips between Birmingham and Manchester every weekend with occasional trips during weekday. All trips are outside morning peak period though not necessarily outside afternoon peak.

There is no afternoon peak on this ticket.

(CrossCountry wanted to introduce such a restriction, but fares regulation bars them from doing so. XC do not like the fact that fares are regulated and are keen for this to change)

I've been buying any permitted off-peak day return tickets as it suits what I need - no travel during morning peak but any time after that.

There are no day returns. You can get cheaper day returns by using a combination of tickets.

(XC do not like this either and are keen for the cheaper fares to increase in price so that it is no longer cheaper to "split")

Looking though routeing guide, am I correct in saying that a travel as far north as Warrington Stations group is allowed? If so, does it mean I am able to change at Crewe or Warrington Bank Quay?

It is, though Birmingham to Manchester via Warrington is only currently valid by walking via Central and not by changing at Bank Quay. I believe this to be an error in the maps.

Do both Virgin Train services use the same line into Crewe station (i.e. if one gets delayed then other service is also delayed)?

Trains can be overtaken between Manchester and Crewe, whichever route they take.

Other (slow) routes you could take if you are keen to sample different routes would include taking the Trent Valley line south of Stafford, and coming off it at Rugeley (via Hednesford), or Lichfield Trent Valley (via Sutton Coldfield), or Tamworth.

 

[jfollows]

Thank you for very helpful reply! I just have one more question.

Looking at realtimetrains website, trains from Birmingham to Scotland stops at Crewe xx:08 and trains bound for Manchester Picc from London Euston leaves at xx:12. Would this interchange be possible?

The train you are proposing to use from Birmingham frequently runs late and is often let out directly in front of the London-Manchester train at Stafford so that the latter is immediately behind it and therefore runs into platform 5 at Crewe very soon after the arrival from Birmingham. It's therefore a quick connection.

However, to answer your other question, it is normal for both trains to use the down fast between Stafford and Crewe, and it is normal to delay the London-Manchester train at Stafford (sometimes bringing it to a stand on the down fast in the station) to allow the Birmingham-Glasgow to cross in front of it.