Birmingham-Manchester standalone service?

[daodao]

* Cutting the London - Birmingham - Glasgow service back to Blackpool in alternate two hours
* Not running peak extras on any route
* Not running any trains to Blackpool via the Trent Valley
* Keeping London to Birmingham at 2tph.
* Not running the proposed second train each hour to Liverpool

All of which are retrograde steps. However, one way to resource an hourly Manchester-Birmingham service with Pendolinos would be to reduce the direct Manchester-London service to 2 tph, as 3 tph is somewhat excessive.

 

[JonathanH]

All of which are retrograde steps. However, one way to resource an hourly Manchester-Birmingham service with Pendolinos would be to reduce the direct Manchester-London service to 2 tph, as 3 tph is somewhat excessive.

Yes, certainly if the Birmingham to Manchester Pendolino could run in the same path as the cancelled London to Manchester service north of Stone in both of directions it would be ideal, maintaining the turnarounds and interworking at Piccadilly together with the 20 minute interval. Even more ideal if it could be matched up to the London to Birmingham path at New Street with a reasonable dwell.

 

[The Planner]

All of which are retrograde steps. However, one way to resource an hourly Manchester-Birmingham service with Pendolinos would be to reduce the direct Manchester-London service to 2 tph, as 3 tph is somewhat excessive.

If its excessive why are they putting it back infront of any of the other cuts? Its not for a laugh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

* Cutting the London - Birmingham - Glasgow service back to Blackpool in alternate two hours
* Not running peak extras on any route
* Not running any trains to Blackpool via the Trent Valley
* Keeping London to Birmingham at 2tph.
* Not running the proposed second train each hour to Liverpool

Hopefully this gives enough to take over the LNR Trent Valley service as well.

All of those things are worse than not having a Pendolino extend from Birmingham to Manchester once an hour. Of course it might well be something worth doing post HS2.

If LNR don't need as many 350s/730s now commuting is less of a thing, how about extending the Euston-Crewe stopper through to Piccadilly? Though in a way I'd rather that went to Liverpool.

 

[Purple Orange]

All of those things are worse than not having a Pendolino extend from Birmingham to Manchester once an hour. Of course it might well be something worth doing post HS2.

If LNR don't need as many 350s/730s now commuting is less of a thing, how about extending the Euston-Crewe stopper through to Piccadilly? Though in a way I'd rather that went to Liverpool.

Something between Crewe & Manchester would have to go in order to facilitate that.

Post HS2, I’m all for seeing 8-car EMUs running on the WCML with doors at thirds up to Manchester. But that absolutely must call at more stops and all go via Stoke in order to maximise coverage of intercity travel.

 

[cle]

Also, if Manchester goes to 2tph, and therefore Stoke - then both MKC and Macc calls are on every service. Which slows it to 2h10 minimum. Assuming Wilmslow is preserved - thay might be able to take a MKC (but it will/should have the Chester for that).

If Manchester didn't justify more than 2tph from London in better times, HS2 2b would not really be a going concern.

If it's the SW/NE going to Moor St, who keeps their direct Manchester, Reading or Bristol? Presumably Bristol would have 2tph headed to Derby?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something between Crewe & Manchester would have to go in order to facilitate that.

The second XC path is currently empty, isn't it?

 

[The Planner]

If it's the SW/NE going to Moor St, who keeps their direct Manchester, Reading or Bristol? Presumably Bristol would have 2tph headed to Derby?

Both could at 1tph

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2021 ==

The second XC path is currently empty, isn't it?

Only between Cheadle Hulme and Picc.

 

[Purple Orange]

Looking at the seating capacity uplift in the integrated rail plan, it looks like Manchester-Birmingham will have 4 tph with about 1,500 seats. Of that, the HS2 element constitutes 1,100 seats (2x200m trains), and 400 seats (2 tph) on the WCML, which is the same as 2x4-car voyagers. London-Manc will be 1 tph on the WCML.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2021 ==

The second XC path is currently empty, isn't it?

True, it is.

 

[cle]

Both could at 1tph

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2021 ==


Only between Cheadle Hulme and Picc.

If both do, what runs from Newcastle/Leeds to Birmingham (if no longer to the South Coast) - terminate at New St.

That's why I'd think a pair of Bristol - B'ham - NE services would be neater. But everyone will want a Manchester I suppose.

Maybe the pre-pandy status quo was best, and just needs longer trains! And regional EMU services/extensions on top, if feasible.

 

[HSTEd]

400 seats (2 tph) on the WCML, which is the same as 2x4-car voyagers.

Or two 3-car XC turbostars IIRC.

 

[350101]

I have a Virgin Cross Country from January - May 2003 before Liverpool was withdrawn. The service was 2-hourly and took the path of the current XX:04 Liverpool - Birmingham pre-covid

 

[mmh]

Where is the spare rolling stock for this?

To be built in the future?