Birmingham Chiltern Railways Help

[BHX_Chiltern]

Hello,

For some reason my messages my deleting! I received a letter this morning from Chilterns railways fraud and prosecution lead I'm really worried it entails a charge relating to September where I bought a ticket and my Railcard wasn't valid

It also references other previous incorrect tickets I'm not sure how to approach drafting a response do I need to address both. I've had a go at drafting a response I'd appreciate any insight as I'm not sure how to proceed please can you let me know your thoughts as I'm feeling really anxious about how to approach this correctly

I am writing in response to your letter dated 7th February 2025, regarding the alleged travel irregularity on XXth September 2024 (Customer Reference: XXXX).
I sincerely apologise for any misunderstanding that may have occurred. At the time of travel, I believed I was travelling with a valid ticket under my Railcard, but I now realise that my Railcard had unfortunately expired in June. This was an honest mistake on my part, and I had no intention of fare evasion. I now make it a priority to verify that I have the correct ticket for the appropriate train and have familiarised myself with all relevant ticketing rules and regulations.
For your reference, I have attached copies of both my expired Railcard (valid until June 2024) and my current Railcard (if applicable) to demonstrate that I normally travel with a valid discount entitlement. I have put it into my calendar to renew my railcard every year in my calendar which repeats yearly to prevent me from travelling without a valid railcard.
I would be happy to settle this matter amicably and cover any outstanding fare or administrative costs to prevent the need for legal proceedings.
Please let me know if an out-of-court settlement would be possible, as I wish to resolve this at the earliest opportunity.
I appreciate your time in considering my response. Please confirm the next steps at your earliest convenience.
Yours Sincerely,

 

[Wethebest838]

Some changes I'd personally make -


Dear Fraud & Prosecutions Unit,

I am writing in response to your letter dated 7th February 2025, regarding the alleged travel irregularity on XXth September 2024 (Customer Reference: XXXX). It's not alleged as you did it. I'd say: regarding the letter I received in regard to the travel irregularity I made on XXth September 2024

I sincerely apologise for any misunderstanding that may have occurred. I get it that you didn't know it expired but I wouldn't use misunderstanding: I want to take the time to apologise for the offences regarding fare evasion that I have committed. I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused. At the time of travel, I believed I was travelling with a valid railcard with a valid ticket under my Railcard, but I now realise that my Railcard had unfortunately expired in June. This was an honest mistake on my part, and I had no intention of fare evasion.

For your reference, I have attached copies of both my expired Railcard (valid until June 2024) and my current Railcard (if applicable) to demonstrate that I normally travel with a valid discount entitlement.

I have always sought to pay the correct fare for my journeys and have no history of deliberate fare avoidance. I would be happy to settle this matter amicably and cover any outstanding fare or administrative costs to prevent the need for legal proceedings.

Please let me know if an out-of-court settlement would be possible, as I wish to resolve this at the earliest opportunity. I would be most grateful if you could allow me to settle this matter without the need for court action, and I do hope you can look on this request sympathetically.

I appreciate your time in considering my response. Please confirm the next steps at your earliest convenience.

I am fully willing to cooperate and pay any out standing fees out of court so that Chiltern get all the money they rightfully should be paid back and to pay any fees regarding time put into considering my case due to my regrettable actions.

Yours sincerely,

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

Hi thank you soo much for your revised comments I really appreciate it and will reword. I wanted to also ask if you have any suggestions about addressing the other charges that were mentioned in the second paragraph
Also do you think I should directly address the person at the bottom of the letter?

Thank you for your advice sorry for all the questions I just want to confirm I have addressed everything as it's making me nervous

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

Also is it worth including the following paragraphs to show acknowledgement please can you let me know not sure if I'm overthinking and putting in too much?

Since the incident, I have taken steps to ensure that such a situation does not arise again. Specifically, ensuring I board the correct train at the correct time always with the appropriate ticket , and I have familiarised myself with the rules and regulations regarding ticketing for all future journeys.

I fully acknowledge the importance of adhering to fare regulations and the wider impact that fare evasion has on the railway industry. I am keen to resolve this matter amicably and avoid further escalation. To that end, I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter by paying any outstanding fares, administrative fees, or penalties as appropriate.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my response. Please let me know if there are any further actions required from me. I look forward to your reply and hope for a positive resolution.

 

[notmyrealname]

You should address your reply to the person who signed the letter. Then end with Yours sincerely.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

Thank you for letting me know, I was wondering if you have any thoughts in my above message about the other charges mentioned in the second paragraph?

And if I should include the additional paragraphs from above?

Thank you

 

[John R]

I'm a bit confused, as you talk about a senior railcard, but as though you actually had a different one (albeit expired). So can you be clear which railcard you held, and which railcard you were using to purchase tickets, both before and after it had expired.

To cut to the chase, Chiltern is very likely to offer a settlement, but it will calculate that settlement by identifying all the tickets you incorrectly purchased and then calculating the full Anytime Single fare for each individual journey (so twice for a return). You'd be well advised to do that calculation yourself to get an idea of how much you might be on the hook for, and add around £150 as an admin fee to the total you come up with.

The letter isn't too bad, although I personally don't like the use of the word amicably, as this isn't a situation of equals. You need to be asking them really nicely not to prosecute you, not shake hands over a deal.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

Hi sorry if the message isn't clear the September charge I applied the correct Railcard as I went to work in the middle of the day so I used my 26-30 Railcard not realising it was expired


Can you let me know what you think of this letter outline including the amendments from above:

Dear Fraud & Prosecutions Unit,

I am writing in response to your letter dated 7th February 2025, regarding the letter I received in relation to the travel irregularity I made on XXth September 2024

I want to take the time to apologise for the offences regarding fare evasion that I have committed. I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused. At the time of travel, I believed I was travelling with a valid railcard, but I now realise that my Railcard had unfortunately expired in June. This was an honest mistake on my part, and I had no intention of fare evasion.

For your reference, I have attached copies of both my expired Railcard (valid until June 2024) and my current Railcard (if applicable) to demonstrate that I normally travel with a valid discount entitlement. Since the incident, I have taken steps to ensure that such a situation does not arise again. Specifically, ensuring I board the correct train at the correct time always with the appropriate ticket , and I have familiarised myself with the rules and regulations regarding ticketing for all future journeys.

I fully acknowledge the importance of adhering to fare regulations and the wider impact that fare evasion has on the railway industry. I am keen to resolve this matter to avoid further escalation. To that end, I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter by paying any outstanding fares, administrative fees as appropriate.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my response. Please let me know if there are any further actions required from me. I look forward to your reply and hope for a positive resolution.

Or is this below ending better as a replacement to the above two ending paragraphs? I hope that makes sense

Please let me know if an out-of-court settlement would be possible, as I wish to resolve this at the earliest opportunity. I would be most grateful if you could allow me to settle this matter without the need for court action, and I do hope you can look on this request sympathetically.

I am fully willing to cooperate and pay any out standing fee’s out of court so that Chiltern get all the money they rightfully should be paid back and to pay any fee’s regarding time put into considering my case due to my regrettable actions.

Yours sincerely,

 

[notmyrealname]

You've put Yours sincerely at the end of the letter but haven't addressed it to the person who wrote to you.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

Thank you for flagging I will update can you let me know your thoughts on my questions and if the letter is reasonable?

 

[Wethebest838]

You should address your reply to the person who signed the letter. Then end with Yours sincerely.

I missed that one!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You've put Yours sincerely at the end of the letter but haven't addressed it to the person who wrote to you.

This really isn't the most important thing. When in my (non railway) job) I got a letter addressed to 'Dear Madam'* I didn't let it affect how I replied to the letter at all. I am going to guess that railway correspondence handlers will have the same approach. It's good to be polite if you can - but very few cases are going to be so marginal that the precise salutation and signoff make a difference.

Let's concentrate on the important bits!

* For reference, I don't identify as female.

 

[John R]

I don't think you've posted a copy of the letter received (which would be assistance), but if they have mentioned other occurrences then you do need to address them, which you don't appear to have, other than to use the plural "offences". Since they relate to a different type of offence (using a different railcard to the one you have) you need to set out why you did that.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

Hi please see letter attached can you let me know your thoughts on what other details I may need to add

 

[GadgetMan]

Would a audit of your purchasing history show a pattern of Senior Railcard discounted tickets bought before 10am and 16 - 25 Railcard discounted tickets bought in the afternoon?

If so, you can't claim you accidentally selected the wrong railcard in a rush.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

I've checked my account not sure how else to address the issue if I'm being honest it was my mistake in the morning I know it's not good enough but it's the re-logging in process where I get flustered I'm willing to pay the correct can you let me know your thoughts

 

[notmyrealname]

This really isn't the most important thing. When in my (non railway) job) I got a letter addressed to 'Dear Madam'* I didn't let it affect how I replied to the letter at all. I am going to guess that railway correspondence handlers will have the same approach. It's good to be polite if you can - but very few cases are going to be so marginal that the precise salutation and signoff make a difference.

Let's concentrate on the important bits!

* For reference, I don't identify as female.

I agree it isn't the most important thing but the OP asked specifically and I thought I would answer before the technical experts arrived.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

This really isn't the most important thing. When in my (non railway) job) I got a letter addressed to 'Dear Madam'* I didn't let it affect how I replied to the letter at all. I am going to guess that railway correspondence handlers will have the same approach. It's good to be polite if you can - but very few cases are going to be so marginal that the precise salutation and signoff make a difference.

Let's concentrate on the important bits!

* For reference, I don't identify as female.

I've uploaded my letter can you let me know what your thoughts are on my response I'm hoping to get this sent off as I feel overwhelmed on how to approach this given the mistakes I've made and it's difficult to put together to make sense I'd appreciate any advice you have thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

I've checked my account not sure how else to address the issue if I'm being honest it was my mistake in the morning I know it's not good enough

So you've been selecting the Senior Railcard throughout as it doesn't have a minimum fare in the morning.

Is this

morning tickets where I was in a rush and applied the wrong Railcard which was my mistake having looked through my history

...true? Have you been honest with us?

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

I know how it sounds even as I'm saying I feel silly, if you have any advice I'd appreciate it, I thought all the discounts are the same

 

[Cuthbert]

I know how it sounds even as I'm saying I feel silly, if you have any advice I'd appreciate it, I thought all the discounts are the same

Then why not pick the one you had a railcard for?

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

I just wasn't paying attention and just pressed anything in the process I know that's not good enough so it might be best to contact a solicitor for guidance

 

[AlterEgo]

I just wasn't paying attention and just pressed anything in the process I know that's not good enough

I'm sorry but it's not reasonable to expect us, or the train company, to believe that.

Your story is that your 26-30 railcard expired, yet you were using this discount for travel in the middle of the day. You told us that, and you know it's important, because the 26-30 railcard doesn't have a minimum fare restriction in the middle of the day, only in the morning.

You have been claiming a Senior Railcard discount for your travel in the morning. It is not easy to just randomly, yet apparently consistently, many times, select this. You have to scroll to select it. This railcard does not have a minimum fare requirement in the morning, so not only have you been claiming a discount you were never - and knew you were never - entitled to, you've also been circumventing the minimum fare.

You do know they will know this? We can see it, and so will they. Don't insult their intelligence.

You are an adult of at least 26 years of age; if you cannot be honest to random people on the internet who have no idea who you are whom you have approached for help, what hope do you have?

 

[Cuthbert]

Does Trainline still keep railcards auto selected when you applied one before?
If yes then you have to unclick the 26-30 railcard and search the senior one.
This is a forum to help people with issues. Telling people on this forum with people that know how the ticket system work.
They need the whole truth to fully help you out.

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

I'm sorry you're right I had to re logon to my account to get my tickets and I didn't think things through when selecting the railcard option, apologies again I'll contact a solicitor

 

[John R]

You do know they will know this? We can see it, and so will they. Don't insult their intelligence.

You are an adult of at least 26 years of age; if you cannot be honest to random people on the internet who have no idea who you are whom you have approached for help, what hope do you have?

And the point of this is (just to spell it out - posters are not just giving you a hard time for the fun of it) that if those reviewing your case think that you are not telling the truth, because it is obvious what you were actually doing (so obvious that we can work it out, even without access to your purchases) then how do you expect them to believe anything you are saying, particularly in terms of saying you are sorry and won't do it again.

And if they don't believe a word you are saying, they are very unlikely to offer you a settlement, but rather will "see you in court".

 

[BHX_Chiltern]

No you're right it's a stupid thing I did and now I need to figure out next steps apologies

 

[Trainman40083]

I am sure we are wondering how old you actually are.

 

[GadgetMan]

I'm sorry you're right I had to re logon to my account to get my tickets and I didn't think things through when selecting the railcard option, apologies again I'll contact a solicitor

You don't need a solicitor, that would just be a waste of money.

Just be honest in your reply, they will more than likely offer you an out of court settlement. That'll be the end of it.
What we're saying is don't try digging a deeper hole by lying to them.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi sorry if the message isn't clear the September charge I applied the correct Railcard as I went to work in the middle of the day so I used my 26-30 Railcard not realising it was expired
Whereas the previous charges they mention in the second paragraph are the morning tickets where I was in a rush and applied the wrong Railcard which was my mistake having looked through my history
I wanted to find out what your advice is for this letter do I need to reference the other charges or should I keep it as it is?

Can you let me know what you think of this letter outline including the amendments from above:

Dear Fraud & Prosecutions Unit,

I am writing in response to your letter dated 7th February 2025, regarding the letter I received in relation to the travel irregularity I made on 11th September 2024

I want to take the time to apologise for the offences regarding fare evasion that I have committed. I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused. At the time of travel, I believed I was travelling with a valid railcard, but I now realise that my Railcard had unfortunately expired in June. This was an honest mistake on my part, and I had no intention of fare evasion.

For your reference, I have attached copies of both my expired Railcard (valid until June 2024) and my current Railcard (if applicable) to demonstrate that I normally travel with a valid discount entitlement. Since the incident, I have taken steps to ensure that such a situation does not arise again. Specifically, ensuring I board the correct train at the correct time always with the appropriate ticket , and I have familiarised myself with the rules and regulations regarding ticketing for all future journeys.

I fully acknowledge the importance of adhering to fare regulations and the wider impact that fare evasion has on the railway industry. I am keen to resolve this matter to avoid further escalation. To that end, I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter by paying any outstanding fares, administrative fees as appropriate.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my response. Please let me know if there are any further actions required from me. I look forward to your reply and hope for a positive resolution.

Or is this below ending better as a replacement to the above two ending paragraphs? I hope that makes sense

Please let me know if an out-of-court settlement would be possible, as I wish to resolve this at the earliest opportunity. I would be most grateful if you could allow me to settle this matter without the need for court action, and I do hope you can look on this request sympathetically.

I am fully willing to cooperate and pay any out standing fee’s out of court so that Chiltern get all the money they rightfully should be paid back and to pay any fee’s regarding time put into considering my case due to my regrettable actions.

Yours sincerely,

Do not lie, but if this whole thing was due to a mistake on your part (as opposed to intentional fare evasion on your part) I would not use the word "evasion" at all in what you send them.

eg in this para (see my add ins and deleteions)

I want to take the time to apologise for travelling without a valid ticket the offences regarding fare evasion that I have committed. I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused. At the time of travel, I believed I was travelling with a valid railcard, but I now realise that my Railcard had unfortunately expired in June. This was an honest mistake on my part, and I had no intention of not paying the correct fare fare evasion.

Check the rest of it for 'evasion' examples

 

[TheJester]

I would start by calculating how much the railway will asking you for if you do manage to keep the matter out of court.

They will seek the standard anytime fare for each journey you made with the incorrectly applied railcard. A return = 2 x standard anytime fare. The money you have already spent using the railcards which you did not possess will not count toward this.

Plus a fee for their investigation, possibly in the region of £150.

You won’t be able to pay this in installments.