Bigger trains on Northern

[Ian Brown]

Are there any services operated by Northern with more than 4 cars to accommodate growth or is there a limitation to 4 cars on account of station platform lengths not being maintained to accommodate larger trains.

 

[Chester1]

Are there any services operated by Northern with more than 4 cars to accommodate growth or is there a limitation to 4 cars on account of station platform lengths not being maintained to accommodate larger trains.

Most smaller stops can only fit 3-6 coaches. Manchester Oxford Road can only fit 8 coach sets using SDO. At some point extending all platforms Liverpool to Manchester via Chat Moss and Manchester to Preston via Bolton to 160m+ for 2x4 coach 319s might make financial sense. The goal should be to run more 4 coach services, either 319s/769s or doubled up 2 coach sprinters.

 

[fowler9]

It's weird, my local station, West Allerton, could easily accommodate trains much longer than four carriages just by reinstating the old parts of the platforms. Mossley Hill which gets loads more passengers would struggle.

 

[Starmill]

Northern currently operate a small number of 6 car trains between Manchester Airport and Preston and the 0728 Halifax to Leeds is a 5 car train. There are a small number of other sprinter formations that are too I think. Pacer formations of 5 cars also turn up occasionally, but these offer much less capacity.

You haven't specified the route you travel on so it's a bit difficult to be any more specific.

 

[Ian Brown]

Thanks. I was also thinking specifically of soon to be electrified routes such as Manchester to Blackpool where even 2x2 23m Class 156s are already longer than 1x4 20 Class 319s. I have been on the 1609 ex Preston to MIA which is 6 car ie 2 Class 185s one from Barrow the other from Blackpool. Presumably this will cease unless the dual modes can couple to the 319. Doesn’t look to me that this electrification with the train plan much as before over this section will yield more capacity, unlike the Liverpool to Wigan and Preston electrification earlier which did. Unless more than 3tph (plus the TPE Scottish) are planned isn’t it likely that overcrowding will continue or is 8 car operation planned?

 

[bramling]

Northern currently operate a small number of 6 car trains between Manchester Airport and Preston and the 0728 Halifax to Leeds is a 5 car train. There are a small number of other sprinter formations that are too I think. Pacer formations of 5 cars also turn up occasionally, but these offer much less capacity.

You haven't specified the route you travel on so it's a bit difficult to be any more specific.

I've been on a 3x150 formation on the Buxton line. Could be wrong but I don't think any of it was locked out.

 

[Starmill]

There are a number of 6 car services on the Buxton line but last I knew they all ran with the rear 2 coaches locked out.

6 car sprinter formations with all of the coaches in use have operated in the past on some routes from Manchester Vic when there have been strikes or engineering work reducing the number of services.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks. I was also thinking specifically of soon to be electrified routes such as Manchester to Blackpool where even 2x2 23m Class 156s are already longer than 1x4 20 Class 319s. I have been on the 1609 ex Preston to MIA which is 6 car ie 2 Class 185s one from Barrow the other from Blackpool. Presumably this will cease unless the dual modes can couple to the 319. Doesn’t look to me that this electrification with the train plan much as before over this section will yield more capacity, unlike the Liverpool to Wigan and Preston electrification earlier which did. Unless more than 3tph (plus the TPE Scottish) are planned isn’t it likely that overcrowding will continue or is 8 car operation planned?

Most of the Bolton route Northern trains used to be 2-car until the cascade from the Liverpool electrification sent more units over.
You still get single/double unit 142s (Vic/Hazel Grove-Blackpool) as well which will go to 319s.
The TPE Scotland services will return and offer more capacity (eventually 5-car) over the line.
A 319 has about as many seats (320) as 2x156, with a pair of cabs fewer, more than 2x150, and many more than 2x142.

 

[PHILIPE]

There is a thread here which the OP may find useful:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/are-any-northern-diagrams-getting-strengthened-at-dec-17-timetable-change.157667

 

[lejog]

Are there any services operated by Northern with more than 4 cars to accommodate growth or is there a limitation to 4 cars on account of station platform lengths not being maintained to accommodate larger trains.

There are a whole series of train lengthening/platform extensions planned for the current franchise on about 15 lines mainly into Leeds or Manchester, which includes to 5*23m for Manchester to Clitheroe. Some lines into Leeds (Skipton, York, Selby, Calder Valley) are due to see 6*23m services. Details may be found in the Franchise Agreement, search for Appendix 3.

 

[Bovverboy]

Most smaller stops can only fit 3-6 coaches. Manchester Oxford Road can only fit 8 coach sets using SDO.

Platform 4 at Oxford Road will accommodate a double 350, i.e. 8 carriages. Platform 2 can only accommodate same if the doors on the rear unit are locked out. The 350s do not have SDO, if they did you would probably manage by locking out just the rearmost doors.
Double 350s are the only 8-carriage sets currently calling at Oxford Road.

 

[IanXC]

I have been on the 1609 ex Preston to MIA which is 6 car ie 2 Class 185s one from Barrow the other from Blackpool. Presumably this will cease unless the dual modes can couple to the 319. Doesn’t look to me that this electrification with the train plan much as before over this section will yield more capacity, unlike the Liverpool to Wigan and Preston electrification earlier which did. Unless more than 3tph (plus the TPE Scottish) are planned isn’t it likely that overcrowding will continue or is 8 car operation planned?

In this specific example, expect an hourly service from Cumbria via Wigan *and* an hourly Blackpool North to Manchester Airport service via Bolton.