Big diesels Paris, Troyes to Belfort

[LouJ]

I am tempted to ride this line in the very near future to sample the big C-C 72100 diesels before they disappear. After checking the services on the SNCF web site there seems to be nothing running during the day. Services seem to start up mid-afternoon with nothing before that. I was looking at dates in early April and wonder if this is due to reconstruction on the line or is it because there is now a TGV option to southeastern France?

Anyone got any ideas of what's happening here?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes - you are right; the introduction of a TGV service tends to decmiate the classic line services on the same axis.

 

[Gordon]

Yes – do it – it is WELL worth doing (I’m not apologising for the internet capital letters on this occasion!). The Paris – Mulhouse – Basel main line, popularly known as Line 4 or Ligne 4 (after the designation given to it by the original Est company, line 1 being the Est’s top trunk line Paris – Strasbourg), is the last French radial truck line habitually operated by big diesels.

I have used it a few times recently to get back from Swiss ski holidays in one day to London, as the 12.46 Mulhouse – Paris is nicely timed to make the mid-evening Eurostars from Paris. A couple of years ago I got a cheap advanced first class ticket and my wife and I had a 6-person compartment in the leading coach all to ourselves all the way from Mulhouse (depart 12.46) to Paris (arrive 17.14) Heaven!

You need to do it before December 2011 (see reasons below)

The reason there appear to be ‘no services in the morning’ from Paris is because only two trains a day now run all the way through to Mulhouse. If you look at the timetable I have linked you will see that services start up with the 07.11 Paris – Belfort.

http://telechargement.ter-sncf.com/Images/Champagne_Ardenne/Tridion/INT_Rel_3_tcm-18-16137.pdf

Beware that the short workings to Culmont Chalindrey only are now mainly plastic unit, except that some peak hour extras Paris – Troyes and the odd Chalindrey such as the 18.11 Paris – Chalindrey are loco hauled.

It is well worth doing the full journey through to Mulhouse (4.5 hours of big diesel heaven with plenty of gradients), but if you can only do one of the Belfort services you can still change at Belfort for a loco hauled service (Strasbourg – Lyon with class 26000 electric) to get to Mulhouse if you’re going on somewhere else.

Southeast of Culmont-Chalindrey the line is also very old fashioned with telegraph wires for long stretches.

See some of my photos here:

http://frenchrailways.fotopic.net/c1682822.html

http://frenchrailways.fotopic.net/c1759696_109.html




Until a few years ago this was the trunk route from Paris – Central and eastern Switzerland with three – four through trains per day each way Paris – Basel and return. (you couldn’t have many more than that due to the long journey time. For a long time this included a through TEE (later EC) to Zurich – the Arbalète. Because Belfort and Mulhouse are not the largest of French cities, in internal French terms it was always a slightly poor relation so has remained non-electrified.

The reduction in Line 4’s status is in two stages. The first was the opening of TGV Est Europeen a couple of years ago. This was the death knell for through services to Basel, replaced by Lyria TGVs via Strasbourg.

The line will lose its trunk status completely when the TGV Rhin-Rhone phase 1 opens at the end of this year. This will make the Paris – Belfort and Mulhouse TGV service via Rhin-Rhone much faster.


Cheers

Gordon

(Technical Adviser, The SNCF Society)

 

[LouJ]

Thanks for the detailed reply above. I think a stay at the Mulhouse Mercure is recommended!

Since posting the origianl item I have done some research and there does appear to be some major engineering work during weedays. There is a video posted on YouTube in which the Union moan at length about these closures which I think are betweeen Troyes and Chaumont.

However plans are now afoot to complete this journey. I shall start from Mulhouse and hopefully get in the first coach for the four and a half hour 'thrash' to Paris.

I have also found details of the renewal works on the following page

http://www.ter-sncf.com/Regions/champagne_ardenne/Fr/Se_deplacer_en_TER/Avant_mon_voyage/Travaux/DetailsTravaux.aspx?URI=tcm%3a18-16234-4

and they seem to continue until early July when things return to normal. As you can see from the temporary timetable the rail service is decimated with very little during daylight hours. There are also replacement bus services.

 

[burns20]

I was hopefully going to be travelling on the 1246 Mulhouse to Paris on 2nd April 2011, the voyages website when doing a journey plan doesn't bring the engineering work up, but that may be a french quirk.

Ah well TGV it is to Paris

 

[LouJ]

I was hopefully going to be travelling on the 1246 Mulhouse to Paris on 2nd April 2011, the voyages website when doing a journey plan doesn't bring the engineering work up, but that may be a french quirk.

I would wait and see - there may be changes to the operational timetable sooner than the website suggests.

 

[Gordon]

.

If you are planning to travel on 2nd April the train should run.

The engineering work replacement timetable sheet clearly shows 'Monday - Friday', so I think the work will finish on Friday 1 April.

 

[trainrider1985]

I would love to ride this Route as well it sounds amazing I like the TGV but they seem Clinical I would like to travel on a Classic line in France.

 

[Gordon]

24 Feb 2011:

Made my way back from Switzerland for probably the last time with a 72100 on the traditional 12.46 Mulhouse – Paris. As usual, SNCF `fag break' station dwell time (the gripper when not ensconced in the 1st class compartment next to me was smoking his pipe at every stop!)allowed leaps off for photography at intermediate stations.

As on previous journeys I managed to keep a complete 1st class compartment to myself, but not all the way to Paris this time...In a twist on the usual issue, three railway police got on at Troyes and after a pleasant 'bonjour' joined me in my compartment for the rest of the journey to Paris!

Pictures here:
http://frenchrailways.fotopic.net/c1947191.html

Reached Paris in time for a good look at some of the 67400 activity, even better as the two 67400s available for photography co-operated by being Original blue 522 and 524!

26146 12:17 Basel – Strasbourg
26139 4214 Strasbourg – Lyon
26140 Strasbourg – Basel TER 200 at Mulhouse 12.45

72179 12:46 Mulhouse – Paris

25640 awaiting depart from Belfort with RRR

72140 stabled at Vesoul with stock for 1840 (bailed for a quick shot of the two trains together)

Paris Est

674XX outbound double RIO 17.10 at Pantin (17.04 to La Ferté Milon)
17051 17:45 Paris Est - Meaux
17039 on grande lignes ECS work
17077 + RIO assumed another Meaux service
67524 18.04 Paris – La Ferté Milon
67522 in with double RIO, then switched off so onviously wasnlt deopartiung for sime time. No obvious service as the last through La Ferté Milon had gone so are there still one or two Provins services which are not BiBi?
72190 18:11 Paris Est – Chalindrey
72148 18:41 Paris Est – Mulhouse

Then over to Nord for 19.13 E* to St Pancras

 

[notadriver]

Thats what I call a proper holiday

 

[Gordon]

Thats what I call a proper holiday

Thanks!

I've posted the Swiss part of the trip as a separate post

 

[LouJ]

It seems the normal timetable starts again on Saturday 11th June 2011. This is subject to the outstanding line upgrade works being completed by 10th June. Source for this info is Thomas Cook International Timetable. In addition the full service is displayed on the SNCF website after this date too.

Hope this helps anyone planning to ride this libe before the "BIG Diesels disappear off inter-city passenger workings.

I am hoping to be on the 1246 service on Friday 17th June - hopefully enjoying a seat in First Class at the front of the train!

 

[Gordon]

Hope this helps anyone planning to ride this libe before the "BIG Diesels disappear off inter-city passenger workings.

There is no guarantee that this will be the end of the big diesels.

With the new plan for Intercités which has in theory safeguarded some of the other diesel secondary inter city routes such as Boredaeux - Nantes there may just possibly be a future for some 72100 away from Line 4, given that they have been re-engined.

 

[Maurice]

I plan to travel in May (mid week) on 16.41 Paris - Mulhouse. I'm deciding whether to buy a first or second class ticket. Is first class usually at the front or back, and any idea how busy these trains usually are?

Any knowledge would be appreciated - thanks

 

[LouJ]

If my memory serves me correctly first is at the Paris end of the train. An earlier post supports this too.

 

[Gordon]

The first class tends to be near (but not right at the) Paris end of the set. The other week for my trip on the 12.46 Mulhouse – Paris the nearest first class to the loco was the front half of a 1st/2nd composite compartment coach which was the second coach in the train.

The loading on these trains seems to vary, but they are rarely completely empty. I travelled on the 18.41 ex Paris in September 2009 and it was chokka mostly with passengers travelling to Belfort (I alighted at Vesoul). At a guess, the 16.41 ex Paris might not be too full mid week, especially as there is also a 16.11 Troyes service.
In any case if you board the train early you should get a seat without any problems.

My three recent journeys Mulhouse – Paris were completed in the first class compartment (April 2009, April 2010 and February 2011). In April 2009 my wife and I had the 6-seat compartment to ourselves all the way, in April 2010 there were six of us ‘en famille’ anyway and as mentioned in my recent post, this year I was on my own in the 6 seat compartment until Troyes when the railway policemen joined me for the journey to Paris.

The traditional policy on European railway routes that serve a capital city terminus is for the first class to be at the concourse end of the train barring exceptional circumstances (I presume this was always on the basis of it is less distance to walk) at the capital city terminal. This is the case on the UK ECML for example and has normally been the case on SNCF. I tend to travel first class where I can these days and especially if going all the way on line 4 Paris – Mulhouse as it is worth having the extra comfort and space for such a long journey.

 

[Maurice]

Thanks for the info - very helpful. I think I will go for first class, due to the length of the trip, even though this will be back from the loco. It's pity there aren't through trains earlier in the day during early May, but by then a fair bit of the journey will be in daylight. I've got to take this opportunity while I can!