Big decrease in passenger satisfaction for Southeastern, big increase for Hull Trains

[northwichcat]

The results for the Passenger Focus Passenger Satisfaction Survey for Spring 2014 are in.

http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/ne...ndividual-passenger-experience-remains-varied

Southeastern have seen a 12% drop in satisfaction since Autumn 2013 and are now the lowest rated operator, First Hull Trains have seen a 10% increase to become the highest rated operator, Scotrail have also seen a 4% increase since the last period with no significant changes for any other operators.

Grand Central and Heathrow Express are just below First Hull Trains, with Merseyrail the highest rated franchised operator followed by Chiltern.

 

[SETCommuter]

No surprise to any of us who have to endure Southeastern on a daily basis I can assure you !

 

[Class377]

A big increase for HT?

I've only used them once, but I thought their stock seemed a bit old-fashioned and out of place on such an intercity route!

 

[northwichcat]

No surprise to any of us who have to endure Southeastern on a daily basis I can assure you !

So why are Southeastern so much worse than they were in the last quarter?

 

[Tibbs]

So why are Southeastern so much worse than they were in the last quarter?

It may not just be that. Maybe it's like the crime statistics - they're asking the right people, or people are being more forthcoming in the feedback.

 

[Class377]

It may not just be that. Maybe it's like the crime statistics - they're asking the right people, or people are being more forthcoming in the feedback.

Or could it be a case of the straw that broke the camel's back? As in, they don't mind putting up with it for a while but after a while it becomes unbearable?

 

[Jay1970]

I'm a abit sceptical of these surveys as having filled them out it only asks about the current journey and not recent experiences.

Having said that I can fully see how SE have come in last. No doubt many do blame them for things beyond their control, and many people do not differentiate between SE and Network Rail. They were badly hit by the weather. However their communications and help during these instances have often been woeful. I notice other TOCs badly affected by the weather did not suffer the same level of drops across various measures.

SE just don't do enough to keep passengers informed and offer help. The website was lacking, platform information was lacking, and staff were lacking. They have been promising to fix it before but to no avail. Their state owned predessesor did much better so it can be done.

A lack of stock doesn't help when problems occur either. A follow up order of 377's from southerns (to displace networkers from longer routes) or 378's for routes to Hayes, Dartford, Gillingham etc and adapted to metro use, like 376's inside, is needed soon. Some 377/1 from southern in 4 years isn't soon enough.

SE have been saying the same things for years but little changes. Maybe now Horton is going things will improve.

 

[Darandio]

A big increase for HT?

I've only used them once, but I thought their stock seemed a bit old-fashioned and out of place on such an intercity route!

That is very interesting, given their stock quite new compared to other long distance operators on that line.

I've never used them myself, is the stock in good condition? Or would you get the perception it was old fashioned?

 

[IanXC]

A big increase for HT?

I've only used them once, but I thought their stock seemed a bit old-fashioned and out of place on such an intercity route!

Are you sure? Their 180s are just the same as FGW/GC examples really - not new but hardly old fashiond!

If you want to see old fashioned and tired I'd recommend GC HSTs!

I'm a abit sceptical of these surveys as having filled them out it only asks about the current journey and not recent experiences.

By doing this they remove the bias there would otherwise be - people are much more likely to remember one bad journey than the last 30 good ones, so given the sample size this method should obtain a much more representative sample.

 

[yorkie]

So why are Southeastern so much worse than they were in the last quarter?

I've made some journeys in the last quarter and experienced several instances of staff refusing to issue the correct tickets, being rude and obstructive, so if my experiences are anything to go by, they're an awful Company to have to endure. They seem to see passengers as a huge inconvenience.

 

[Class377]

That is very interesting, given their stock quite new compared to other long distance operators on that line.

I've never used them myself, is the stock in good condition? Or would you get the perception it was old fashioned?

It really didn't feel modern to be honest. It seemed a bit grey and drab from the vestibules, and the purple seating just felt a bit out of place on a long distance operator.

If I saw http://www.shadowlifemedia.co.uk/Tr...riors/i-H5FJtVN/0/L/180106-Interior-(7)-L.jpg and had to completely guess what sort of stock it was, I'd have said it was medium distance sort of stuff (maybe ATW or something).

Sorry for the vague explanation but it just gave off the feel of being old-fashioned and inappropriate for the journey.

Are you sure? Their 180s are just the same as FGW/GC examples really - not new but hardly old fashiond!

If you want to see old fashioned and tired I'd recommend GC HSTs!

It's by no means the worst stock I've travelled on, but when I heard that HT got the highest satisfaction ratings, it somewhat surprised me because that was my first impression when travelling with them.

 

[CC 72100]

I like how while TPE (which is what you would be lead to believe by reading most of the posts on here) has a relatively low percentage with people satisfied for "sufficient room for all the passengers to sit and stand", CrossCountry's figure isn't too bad at all, better than quite a few other operators

It's also a little puzzling the station comments on CrossCountry - I'm guessing they refer to the stations used on the CrossCountry journey's which people were asked about, as they certainly don't correspond to CrossCountry's own stations that they operate, because, well, there wouldn't be any.... !

 

[westv]

HT's legroom for the airline style seats leaves EC in the shade.

 

[LowLevel]

It is interesting to note that for FCC, an entirely DOO operator, 84% of people appear to be dissatisfied with the availability of staff and/or info on trains, all DOO operators seem to do rather badly here.

I caught an FCC 319 from Brighton to St Pancras recently, it was a semi fast with irregular stopping pattern. Not a single announcement combined with no CIS all journey. Anyone visually impaired would have been in difficulty. It's criminal they have gotten away with it this long.

 

[3141]

A big increase for HT?

I've only used them once, but I thought their stock seemed a bit old-fashioned and out of place on such an intercity route!

I haven't been in a Hull Trains class 180, but if they have the same layout as the ones Grand Central operates, then there's a small number of airline-style seats, a lot of tables, and the seats align with the windows.

Is it possible that you've come to regard as "modern" the trains operated by other inter-city TOCs, that have very few tables, lots of airline sates, and you're lucky if you can see out clearly?

 

[fusionblue]

So why are Southeastern so much worse than they were in the last quarter?

To be fair, saying things (in the last quarter, IIRC) like passengers don't like travelling on SET because they use their services to go to work (to do jobs they supposedly don't like) is not going to win you many plaudits.

I had issues with ticketing, staff availability, staff blocking me from leaving stations with valid tickets, not responding to letters properly...

A personal unrelated dislike of mine is how SET say that 2tph on certain routes is sufficient because there is "insufficient demand for more services". The adjacent DLR comes in with 6tph off-peak and London Overground with 4tph per branch, and suddenly even the 378s can't cope in their current state in less than 5 years from launch. Similar issue on the DLR.

SET still sticking to their same line of "insufficient demand", meanwhile.

 

[SF-02]

That line about commuters doesn't help them when other London commuter services got better results. It's the same with their weather argument this time - other TOC's also had severe disruption.

They also came last in the 'Which' magazine survey too recently.

You are entirely right about frequencies and demand - 2 tph stifles demand and having it on Dartford - Victoria (also no service after 8pm and Sundays) along with 2 tph services after 8pm on busy commuter routes such as the Bexleyheath line are completely inadequate. I fear only TfL taking over will change things to any great degree. The DfT and southeastern show no desire for change. No innovation or forward thinking. TfL would also be able to properly staff and collect the fares and cut back on the massive amounts of fare dodging. Indeed they were willing to take on this revenue risk such was their confidence in improving revenues which they surely would. The fare dodgers wouldn't switch to buses as they are painfully slow on the whole around SE London.

 

[causton]

Anyone visually impaired would have been in difficulty. It's criminal they have gotten away with it this long.

If you're too visually impaired to see the CIS you'll probably either hear a platform announcement as the train arrives, or will have booked assistance and someone will be on the platform to tell them how many stops, or someone will be getting them off the train at the other end!

I can certainly understand drivers not wanting to make announcements, especially with the amount of stops FCC have, announcing unfortunately comes quite far down the priority list for a driver. It won't be long until the new stock comes through with a proper PIS though!

 

[Skimble19]

Well this is a great sign for those of us who will shortly have this Charles Horton as our "CEO"..! Hopefully he isn't actually the problem at SE and actually does some good!

 

[Harpers Tate]

It comes as no surprise to me that HT are highly thought of.
The seating layout of their 180 fleet is good with plenty of legroom even in Standard.
In my limited experience they are reasonably punctual.
They serve places that the franchised Railway (whether it be late BR, the DFT or otherwise) has chosen to neglect, and that is not limited to Hull itself
They charge less
And....importantly.....I rarely see such excellent examples of customer-focussed staff attitudes elsewhere on the Railway; in this they invariably excel.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Interesting how the industry was quick to rubbish the Which report back in February, but the Passenger Focus results pretty much match Which's data.

Which found SouthEastern, Greater Anglia and FCC to be the worst, closely followed by Northern, FGW and SWT.

Passenger Focus found SouthEastern and FCC to be the worst, closely followed by Northern, FGW, SWT and Greater Anglia.

SouthEastern's response to the Which survey in February was to say that they did badly because the service ‘takes people somewhere they don’t want to be with money they don’t want to pay’.

No wonder they're stinking the league tables out with customer service like that.

 

[Aictos]

Being pedant for the moment, it's easy for Hull Trains to get such a high result as they don't operate as many services as South Eastern in fact I go as far as to say ALL Open Access operators such as Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains etc ought to be getting 100% in these surveys as they're small companies running over self contained routes which are pretty simple to operate.

Unlike the likes of East Coast, FGW, FCC, Chiltern etc who have far more services to contend with.

 

[northwichcat]

Being pedant for the moment, it's easy for Hull Trains to get such a high result as they don't operate as many services as South Eastern in fact I go as far as to say ALL Open Access operators such as Grand Central, Heathrow Express, Hull Trains etc ought to be getting 100% in these surveys as they're small companies running over self contained routes which are pretty simple to operate.

Unlike the likes of East Coast, FGW, FCC, Chiltern etc who have far more services to contend with.

Hull Trains and Grand Central share tracks with almost as many operators as East Coast do. Do you think they have their own lines in and out of Kings Cross?

 

[Tetchytyke]

they're small companies running over self contained routes which are pretty simple to operate.

A big chunk of SouthEastern's trains run on HS1, which is entirely self-contained and solely for passenger trains.

If SouthEastern can't make the fast modern trains on HS1 work for their reputation, then something is very badly wrong.

Open Access operators do a good job despite the fact, as OA operators, they don't get first dibs on paths into London.

 

[talltim]

Are you sure? Their 180s are just the same as FGW/GC examples really - not new but hardly old fashiond!

If you want to see old fashioned and tired I'd recommend GC HSTs!



By doing this they remove the bias there would otherwise be - people are much more likely to remember one bad journey than the last 30 good ones, so given the sample size this method should obtain a much more representative sample.

Except if the survey is done on a particularly bad day. Or the one good day in the last 6 months...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The big increase for HT might be because their trains have stopped breaking down all the time?

 

[Class377]

No surprise to see FCC and FGW near the bottom.

They don't do a bad job by any stretch of the imagination but at any given time have a look at their twitter feeds and you can see their passengers will complain at the slightest inconvenience (FCC not helped by @firstplatform of course, their resident troll?), so if there was a survey I could imagine them knocking the companies for anything!

 

[northwichcat]

but at any given time have a look at their twitter feeds and you can see their passengers will complain at the slightest inconvenience

Any moaning on Twitter or local media related to London operators gets picked up by the Daily Mail. When it relates to an operator who doesn't serve London then the Daily Mail don't bother.

 

[Tetchytyke]

look at their twitter feeds and you can see their passengers will complain at the slightest inconvenience

My season ticket is nearly four and a half grand a year for a 23-mile train ride. It's double what I'd pay for an equivalent journey such as Halifax to Manchester.

Damn right I, and most other passengers, will complain when we're not getting the service we're paying through the nose for. It's why London TOCs are always at the bottom of the pile.

The amount you pay for your ticket affects satisfaction. The London TOCs charge premium prices, yet the service they deliver is astoundingly mediocre. When I've paid four grand for a service, the "slightest inconvenience" is wholly unacceptable.

 

[northwichcat]

My season ticket is nearly four and a half grand a year for a 23-mile train ride. It's double what I'd pay for an equivalent journey such as Halifax to Manchester.

...

The London TOCs charge premium prices, yet the service they deliver is astoundingly mediocre.

I can tell you that Knutsford to Chester which is around that distance is two and a quarter grand for an annual season ticket. However, you do only get an hourly service even at peak times - if the 08:45 arrival in Chester in the morning is too late for you then you have to arrive at 07:45, while if you're not at Chester for the 17:00 train in the evening then you have to wait until 18:00. Also the 07:45 arrival and 18:00 departures are booked to be 142s. So if you have to work 08:30-17:00 then the train isn't really an attractive option if you own a car.

 

[dk1]

SouthEastern's response to the Which survey in February was to say that they did badly because the service ‘takes people somewhere they don’t want to be with money they don’t want to pay’.

No wonder they're stinking the league tables out with customer service like that.

I found that very honest though & something I have thought all along.