Big cats in the UK

[martin butler]

This seems to be a subject that crops up quite often, on the news,
So, could a large cat survive in the wild and avoid human habitation long enough to establish a territory?

Private collectors were thought to have released some big cats years ago when the rules were tightened up ,
but the evidence, or lack of it, would indicate these animals most likely not surviving very long, so far, unless its been classified, to prevent panic, there are no reports of livestock with the sort of wounds a large cat would inflict, or carcasses found showing large cat inflicted injuries,

Would an animal raised in captivity, still have the hunting instincts if it had never learnt how to hunt, and how would it react to humans, who it must have thought as being providers,

As long as I can remember there have been reports of something being out there, the beast of Bodmin etc, Exmoor, etc, what do you lot think?

 

[SJL2020]

Hopefully lynx will be reintroduced to the UK one day. Would help manage the out-of-control roe deer and other smaller deer populations. There is a group looking at the feasibility of reintroduction to the Kielder Forest area of Northumberland. It would need to be done carefully though, and would no doubt face stiff objections from the farming lobby.

Some idiot set free 4 presumably captive born lynx near Kingussie last January (2025). All were soon captured in poor condition and one died soon after. This suggests that large cats born in captivity are likely to struggle if simply abandoned.

 

[martin butler]

Hopefully lynx will be reintroduced to the UK one day. Would help manage the out-of-control roe deer and other smaller deer populations. There is a group looking at the feasibility of reintroduction to the Kielder Forest area of Northumberland. It would need to be done carefully though, and would no doubt face stiff objections from the farming lobby.

Some idiot set free 4 presumably captive born lynx near Kingussie last January (2025). All were soon captured in poor condition and one died soon after. This suggests that large cats born in captivity are likely to struggle if simply abandoned.

That's what I think, that animals who have never had to actively hunt for food, won't survive very long out in the wild, they might scavenge the odd road kill , or dead carcase killed by something else,

but I can't see any non-native species surviving for long unless someone is feeding it clandestinely, and I'm sure any farmer would soon deal with a threat to their livestock so I doubt any species of large cat will survive in the British countryside for very long,

The only successful re introduction so far has been the Scottish wildcat, and even then, the breed is endangered by inter breeding with the domestic house cat.

 

[Elwyn]

With properly managed reintroductions, the animals usually have some arms length human support, as long as is necessary. So for example, when Golden Eagles were reintroduced here in Ireland some 25 years back, the relevant authority used to put some food out for them for many many years, to ensure they survived. That hasn’t been a total success as there isn’t enough food in the wild any more and the birds are struggling. There’s only about 5 breeding pairs in the country.

Lynx might do better if there are plenty of deer to prey on. But even they will need some initial support as the misguided Kingussie release showed. The other obstacle is persuading local farmers and residents that lynx pose no threat to humans (which they don’t) and only a minor threat to sheep. The tourist benefits can outweigh a bit of compensation for the odd dead sheep. But local support is needed if it’s to succeed.

Lynx are pretty elusive. I know a wildlife expert in eastern Poland where there are quite a few, and he sees them about once a year. He sees their tracks and droppings but the animals themselves are very good at remaining hidden.

 

[deltic]

Feral cats seem to survive in some places and there are occasionally stories of dogs doing the same living on rabbits so i dont see why big cats could not survive. Even very domesticated cats will kill and eat birds and rodents so they retain their hunting instincts.

 

[JohnofWessex]

Read

The Never-Spotted Leopard

Are repeated sightings of non-existent big cats evidence of a yearning for a wilder life?

www.monbiot.com

That is about the extent of it: no photos, no captures, no dung, no corpses (except a couple of skulls, which later turned out to have gone feral after they had escaped from a leopardskin rug and a wall trophy), not even a certain footprint. The Beasts of Britain have evaded police helicopters and armed response teams (it beats logging car crime), a five-week hunt by the Royal Marines, a succession of big cat experts and bounty hunters and the mass deployment of tracking, attracting and sensing technologies.


If such a beast exists then where are the bodies?

 

[Brightonboy]

I had an experience a few years ago (perhaps 20) when I was driving up a country lane close to the edge of a village around 0830 and approaching a junction - when I had a very large pure black cat walk across the road ahead of me, pause in the road, look at me and then walk on into the hedge. Was it a small panther? I don't know but it definitely seemed larger than a normal domestic/feral cat. Sadly, at the time I didn't have a dashcam so I couldn't capture any images. The local fields typically contained livestock (including cattle and sheep) with wild deer common and the usual rural roadkill was always available so a big cat might have been able to survive in the area which had a mixture of fields and small woodlands (which could have provided concealment).

I have, therefore, an open mind on the subject but I do have the thought that unless sufficient numbers were released (or escaped) initially to create a breeding population then any such released/escaped individuals would likely have died out by now and I would certainly have thought that more positive evidence of their existence (kills, deceased cats etc) would have been found by now.

 

[3141]

Releasing into this country any species which currently doesn't exist here may have potentially serious unwanted consequences. Even if that species existed here previously, when the human population was around 4 million, doesn't make it a good idea when the human numbers are about sixteen times larger, and far more of the available land is used to house us or produce food for us.

If it were possible to clone the DNA of a sabre-toothed tiger and create a living one, I bet there'd be some group calling for their re-introduction because they used to live here.

With some forms of AI already bright enough to hack into competitors' sites, I can imagine a science fiction story in which AI produces all kinds of things and releases them into the world for the fun of seeing how we cope.

Incidentally, St. Patrick is credited with having removed all snakes from Ireland; are there campaigners for re-introducing them there?

 

[martin butler]

Releasing into this country any species which currently doesn't exist here may have potentially serious unwanted consequences. Even if that species existed here previously, when the human population was around 4 million, doesn't make it a good idea when the human numbers are about sixteen times larger, and far more of the available land is used to house us or produce food for us.

If it were possible to clone the DNA of a sabre-toothed tiger and create a living one, I bet there'd be some group calling for their re-introduction because they used to live here.

With some forms of AI already bright enough to hack into competitors' sites, I can imagine a science fiction story in which AI produces all kinds of things and releases them into the world for the fun of seeing how we cope.

Incidentally, St. Patrick is credited with having removed all snakes from Ireland; are there campaigners for re-introducing them there?

I can just imagine the warning signs around these reserves, Danger risk of being eaten, do not feed the Sabre-toothed cats, do not leave your cars BBQ's at your own risk,

 

[Sorcerer]

The only question relating to big cats in the UK is whether or not there is both suitable habitat and abundant prey. In our densely populated island I am not sure about either of these. I think using the term "big cat" is also a bit misleading because that tends to only refer to the Pantherine kind (tigers, lions, jaguars, leopards and snow leopards) which definitely wouldn't be well adapted to the UK.

 

[43096]

Why did I look at the thread title and think of Class 68s?!

 

[alxndr]

I had an experience a few years ago (perhaps 20) when I was driving up a country lane close to the edge of a village around 0830 and approaching a junction - when I had a very large pure black cat walk across the road ahead of me, pause in the road, look at me and then walk on into the hedge. Was it a small panther? I don't know but it definitely seemed larger than a normal domestic/feral cat.

I do wonder if anyone has similar thoughts if they see my mother’s cat. My own cat is considered to be large, but he dwarfs him. He’s quite elusive so I don’t have many photographs, but this somewhat shows his size:

 

[JohnofWessex]

There seems to be some evidence to suggest that there was a 'Big Cat'that had been released in Surrey in the past.

But, assuming we do have a 'Big Cat' in the UK

There needs to be a viable breeding population that means 200+ animals = who must be able to meet to breed

If we assume adults live 5 years then that means 40 bodies a year that are not discovered - and unless they are entirely unlike other animals a significant percentage will die on the roads

 

[WesternLancer]

I do wonder if anyone has similar thoughts if they see my mother’s cat. My own cat is considered to be large, but he dwarfs him. He’s quite elusive so I don’t have many photographs, but this somewhat shows his size:View attachment 211221

Definitely a big cat! Very impressive

Or a small arm…

 

[bahnause]

Releasing into this country any species which currently doesn't exist here may have potentially serious unwanted consequences. Even if that species existed here previously, when the human population was around 4 million, doesn't make it a good idea when the human numbers are about sixteen times larger, and far more of the available land is used to house us or produce food for us.

What unwanted consequences? What a lynx does looks s bit like this:

• Regulates deer populations: Hunts weak and sick animals, keeping herds healthy.
• Reduces forest damage: Changes deer grazing habits, protecting young tree shoots.
• Promotes climate-resilient forests: Allows rare tree species like silver firs to grow.
• Restores natural food webs: Fills an ecological gap left by historic predator eradication.
• Boosts overall biodiversity: Strengthens the health and variety of the entire woodland ecosystem.

 

[SJL2020]

What unwanted consequences? What a lynx does looks s bit like this:

• Regulates deer populations: Hunts weak and sick animals, keeping herds healthy.
• Reduces forest damage: Changes deer grazing habits, protecting young tree shoots.
• Promotes climate-resilient forests: Allows rare tree species like silver firs to grow.
• Restores natural food webs: Fills an ecological gap left by historic predator eradication.
• Boosts overall biodiversity: Strengthens the health and variety of the entire woodland ecosystem.

All very good points. In the UK context an example of a tree clobbered by deer overgrazing is aspen. The national decline of aspen is in turn directly linked to the decline of a number of invertebrates, including certain moth, butterfly and hoverfly species.

Another point - perhaps of interest to the guy you responded to - is that excessive deer populations damage farmers' crops as well as forests. I was chatting to a recently retired farmer last year who was telling me that grazing from deer had undermined the viability of his (arable) farm. I bet he wouldn't have minded a visiting lynx to help move them along.

 

[Yew]

Another point - perhaps of interest to the guy you responded to - is that excessive deer populations damage farmers' crops as well as forests. I was chatting to a recently retired farmer last year who was telling me that grazing from deer had undermined the viability of his (arable) farm. I bet he wouldn't have minded a visiting lynx to help move them along.

Probobly more humane for them to be shot with a rifle, than mauled by Lynx, some Venison in that too.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Whilst cryptzoology is a fascinating subject, the case against the existence of big cats in the UK is similar to the case against UFOs, ghosts and other such phenomena. Why is it that pretty much everyone carries a camera with them at all times in their phone, yet there never been any conclusive photographic or video evidence of their existence? If all you have is anecdotal evidence, tall stories, and blurry photographs then it's safe to say that big cats don't exist in the UK.

 

[martin butler]

Whilst cryptzoology is a fascinating subject, the case against the existence of big cats in the UK is similar to the case against UFOs, ghosts and other such phenomena. Why is it that pretty much everyone carries a camera with them at all times in their phone, yet there never been any conclusive photographic or video evidence of their existence? If all you have is anecdotal evidence, tall stories, and blurry photographs then it's safe to say that big cats don't exist in the UK.

But UFO's do exist, why just the other day i was abducted by three female aliens, with humanoid features, dressed in silver latex, and subjected to a rather distressing probing incident, strange how they all had northern accents though

 

[DarloRich]

Whilst cryptzoology is a fascinating subject, the case against the existence of big cats in the UK is similar to the case against UFOs, ghosts and other such phenomena. Why is it that pretty much everyone carries a camera with them at all times in their phone, yet there never been any conclusive photographic or video evidence of their existence? If all you have is anecdotal evidence, tall stories, and blurry photographs then it's safe to say that big cats don't exist in the UK.

is the correct answer!

 

[Trackman]

Feral cats seem to survive in some places and there are occasionally stories of dogs doing the same living on rabbits so i dont see why big cats could not survive. Even very domesticated cats will kill and eat birds and rodents so they retain their hunting instincts.

When I was young the cat we had caught a Field Vole, it then proceeded to eat it - so I watched. It eat everything including the bones, I can remember the crunching noise!

 

[3141]

Probobly more humane for them to be shot with a rifle, than mauled by Lynx, some Venison in that too.

That's what I was thinking. too. Though I suppose a point in favour of lynx is that they'd operate 24/7.

 

[bahnause]

That's what I was thinking. too. Though I suppose a point in favour of lynx is that they'd operate 24/7.

Their kills are typically very rapid. As solitary cats, a lynx cannot afford a prolonged struggle with a large hoofed animal that could kick, injure, or exhaust it.

Incidentally, it is also an argument that farmers repeatedly raise when the subject of releasing native animal species into the wild comes up. Given that it is common practice to leave sheep graze over large, remote territories with minimal daily human supervision and to accept a mortality rate of around 5% to 7% (viral deseases, birthing complications in lambs, accidents or fatal falls in steep terrain, extreme weather exposure, and untreated parasite infestations, hoof problems), I'm not inclined to agree with it.

 

[JohnofWessex]

But UFO's do exist, why just the other day i was abducted by three female aliens, with humanoid features, dressed in silver latex, and subjected to a rather distressing probing incident, strange how they all had northern accents though

Not a Newcastle accent perchance?

 

[Bald Rick]

Hopefully lynx will be reintroduced to the UK one day.

The Africa version is already with us. Unusual but distinctive aroma.

 

[Bevan Price]

What unwanted consequences? What a lynx does looks s bit like this:

• Regulates deer populations: Hunts weak and sick animals, keeping herds healthy.
• Reduces forest damage: Changes deer grazing habits, protecting young tree shoots.
• Promotes climate-resilient forests: Allows rare tree species like silver firs to grow.
• Restores natural food webs: Fills an ecological gap left by historic predator eradication.
• Boosts overall biodiversity: Strengthens the health and variety of the entire woodland ecosystem.

And the snag - they are big enough to eat small children who wander into the wrong areas away from their parents. Children just look like potential food ............

 

[Elwyn]

And the snag - they are big enough to eat small children who wander into the wrong areas away from their parents. Children just look like potential food ............

Very unlikely. They are the shyest creatures and normally avoid children and humans at all costs. Can you quote an example of a lynx attacking a child?