Bidston to Wrexham track

[michael74]

Yesterday I travelled on this journey for the first time in over 20 years and I was very surprised that most of the route from Bidston to the Welsh border was still jointed track (as I remember it travelling on a class 101 with the blinds open behind the driver.....) and after the border it was all welded rail. It made me appreciate the technology of welded rail, but thinking about it why is it still jointed? I live in Devon now and off the top of my head cant think of many places (if any) that so much of the route jointed.

 

[furnessvale]

Yesterday I travelled on this journey for the first time in over 20 years and I was very surprised that most of the route from Bidston to the Welsh border was still jointed track (as I remember it travelling on a class 101 with the blinds open behind the driver.....) and after the border it was all welded rail. It made me appreciate the technology of welded rail, but thinking about it why is it still jointed? I live in Devon now and off the top of my head cant think of many places (if any) that so much of the route jointed.

The track is still good enough for a minor branch.

No doubt before too long it will receive some secondhand CWR from a mainline route.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The southern part of the route has been upgraded/refurbished recently, mainly because of the freight from Wrexham to Dee Marsh - no freight north of there.
There's actually still quite a lot of jointed track on the Cambrian and Central Wales lines and the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch.

 

[michael74]

I did wonder about the freight on the Welsh side, but as I hadn't ridden on it in so long I didn't know when it was done. I was very glad I wasn't on any sort of Pacer.

 

[Statto]

Line that could do with an upgrade, it's painfully slow especially Shotton-Neston section, it's often quicker going through Chester when going from Wrexham or North Wales Coast via Shotton to Liverpool

 

[PHILIPE]

The OP states lives in Devon. Isn't there still a lot of jointed track on the Barnstaple line ?.

 

[michael74]

The OP states lives in Devon. Isn't there still a lot of jointed track on the Barnstaple line ?.

You know what, I was on it in October and I can't remember

 

[Parallel]

You know what, I was on it in October and I can't remember

Some of the jointed track has been removed, mainly around Portsmouth Arms station. IIRC there is still a small amount approaching Umberleigh from southbound, and after Chapelton from southbound. There's also some sections from around Crediton to Morchard Road as well - The worst/the most fun parts have been removed though.

Last year, there was still some between Torquay and Paignton too, if I remember correctly?

 

[michael74]

I suspect I have dementia, I travel from Torquay quite often, no memory of jointed track, nurse!!!!!!!!

 

[kieron]

Line that could do with an upgrade, it's painfully slow especially Shotton-Neston section, it's often quicker going through Chester when going from Wrexham or North Wales Coast via Shotton to Liverpool

Going from the coast, that could be partly due to the poor timetable. The total time's fairly similar on each route for most of the day, but that doesn't help if you get to Shotton on time, only to find that the next train to the coast is an hour away.

I don't know how much can be done with the speeds south of Shotton, given that it's quite steep and bendy in places.

 

[bramling]

I suspect I have dementia, I travel from Torquay quite often, no memory of jointed track, nurse!!!!!!!!

There was a section on the final approach to Paignton. Perhaps it's now gone.

I think nowadays the best line for jointed track is Settle Junction to Carnforth. Certainly as of a couple of years ago it was almost fully jointed track. I think the line speed is 60 mph, and you can sometimes do it on a Pacer too.

Conwy Valley Line is another good one, although speed is more sedate.

At one point the Skegness like was largely jointed track, but much of this has gone in the last few years.

I haven't been up there for a while, but how about some of the rural lines in Norfolk? East Suffolk Line was certainly largely jointed track when I last went on it, including some sections of short-length bullhead rail. Likewise routes like Norwich-Lowestoft/Yarmouth Vauxhall must still surely have some sections of jointed track remaining, with respectable line speeds too.

 

[allaction]

Whitland - Pembroke Dock has its fair share of jointed track too, and (currently) sees HST traffic on summer Saturdays.

 

[loobylou]

to make the connection between Wrexham and Shotton do-able, speeds need to be increased between Gwersyllt and Cefn-y-bed then Hope and Buckley. this way there's a small chance of making the Llandudno train at Shotton. As it stands, even if you're on time its impossible to run and make it. Bidston to Dee Marsh the speed needs upping to 55-60 for the entire length. And reduce the 15mph out of Bidston straight to 60, rather than going to 20 to 50 as it currently is, it's painful! There's also the annoyance of the train from Chester pulling in to Wrexham just as the Bidston train is leaving! just wait 3 minutes and turn it into a connection. It really is an appalling line. All these little improvements would transform the line and you wouldn't have to go back in time to make the diagram work! (arrive at Shotton xx57, leave Shotton xx55)

 

[185]

You want to hear it when you're walking out on the wooden marshes cycle/foot path (568).

Clickety clack. Clickety clack. Clickety clack. ....if that goes to CWL it will be like a piece of the local scenery disappearing.

 

[childwallblues]

I did wonder about the freight on the Welsh side, but as I hadn't ridden on it in so long I didn't know when it was done. I was very glad I wasn't on any sort of Pacer.

No Pacers allowed.

 

[loobylou]

No Pacers allowed.

just checked the Sectional Appendix under line clearance. For the whole route, class 121, 142, 143, 150 & 153 are cleared without restriction. any class higher than that (DMUs) are not cleared. The thing is, I've heard that pacers are not allowed on there too, so I'm wondering where this is written? not that I'm wanting them on the line!!

 

[childwallblues]

It may not say it in the Sectional Index but in practice ATW use only Class 150s.

 

[PHILIPE]

It may not say it in the Sectional Index but in practice ATW use only Class 150s.

Pacers worked it in FNW days and 153s have worked it in ATW days but, now, solid 150

 

[loobylou]

I'm aware only 150's are used on the service, but the statement was "NO PACERS ALLOWED". I was wondering if you'd actually heard this? because they clearly are. Now, 158's and 175's are not allowed. But pacers are.

 

[Ships]

The track is still good enough for a minor branch.

No doubt before too long it will receive some secondhand CWR from a mainline route.

Nope, its proper knackered. Which is why all the jointed on the down between Bidston and wales boundary was renewed in 16/17. The up is being done in CP6.

 

[headshot119]

No Pacers allowed.

Pacers are all cleared, and regularly ran on the line some years ago.

 

[Ships]

The southern part of the route has been upgraded/refurbished recently, mainly because of the freight from Wrexham to Dee Marsh - no freight north of there.
There's actually still quite a lot of jointed track on the Cambrian and Central Wales lines and the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch.

More to do with creating a fully CWR route and reducing the maintenance. Also has the benefit that once all done the route and be PLPR patrolled.

 

[furnessvale]

Nope, its proper knackered. Which is why all the jointed on the down between Bidston and wales boundary was renewed in 16/17. The up is being done in CP6.

If it is properly knackered it will have a TSR applied. Is there such a TSR in place?

 

[Ships]

If it is properly knackered it will have a TSR applied. Is there such a TSR in place?

Track can be "proper knackered" and in need of a renewal and not have a TSR on. In this case the 1950s jointed which is a complete hodge podge of different fastening and sleeper types is most definitely life expired, it's not economical to keep going with refurb so it's being fully renewed in (mostly) steel sleepers as per the rest of the recent renewals.

 

[furnessvale]

Track can be "proper knackered" and in need of a renewal and not have a TSR on. In this case the 1950s jointed which is a complete hodge podge of different fastening and sleeper types is most definitely life expired, it's not economical to keep going with refurb so it's being fully renewed in (mostly) steel sleepers as per the rest of the recent renewals.

You should have spent time, as I did, with Blackburn District Engineers in the early 1960s. If it doesn't need a TSR, it ain't "proper knackered"!

 

[Bevan Price]

Pacers are all cleared, and regularly ran on the line some years ago.

Yes - but it is so long since Pacers were used that crew "traction knowledge" for Class 142 will have expired. On ATW, only South Wales crews will be able to operate them.

 

[Ships]

You should have spent time, as I did, with Blackburn District Engineers in the early 1960s. If it doesn't need a TSR, it ain't "proper knackered"!

Funnily enough scoped the last of the bullhead jointed on the djh for refurb, the geek in me enjoyed the mix of LNER and LMS baseplates on show. Now that was knackered (and did have a TSR), but as it see only a couple of trains a day at present it's eminently more refurbable thank the WDB3.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Track can be "proper knackered" and in need of a renewal and not have a TSR on. In this case the 1950s jointed which is a complete hodge podge of different fastening and sleeper types is most definitely life expired, it's not economical to keep going with refurb so it's being fully renewed in (mostly) steel sleepers as per the rest of the recent renewals.

Steel sleepers? That should finish off any aspirations to absorb the line into Merseyrail (If those plans weren't already dead, that is).

Yes - but it is so long since Pacers were used that crew "traction knowledge" for Class 142 will have expired. On ATW, only South Wales crews will be able to operate them.

That's not the same as being barred though. Leeds crews don't sign 156s but the units aren't prohibited.

 

[Scotrail84]

Steel sleepers? That should finish off any aspirations to absorb the line into Merseyrail (If those plans weren't already dead, that is).



That's not the same as being barred though. Leeds crews don't sign 156s but the units aren't prohibited.

Quite surprised at that for a major train crew depot.

 

[headshot119]

Yes - but it is so long since Pacers were used that crew "traction knowledge" for Class 142 will have expired. On ATW, only South Wales crews will be able to operate them.

But that doesn't mean they aren't allowed on the line which was my point...