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Bicester Town > Village - flawed renaming

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The Planner

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Well I'd hope NR would be neutral as infrastructure owner. But you're also in a position to check if any proposal for renaming is indeed sensible, has merit, and doesn't present any issues. Do you blindly accept every proposal without checking? Also who is there to represent EWR interests?

And is it really cost neutral? How much time and ££ has been spent? Why can't every business that wants one have their own station renamed after them?

Doesnt matter how much time and £££ has been spent, as I said, if it was cost neutral via Chiltern paying up for the change and the time required then what difference to NR is it what the name is? The same applies to the often discussed Birmingham International, others are arguing over the name and who pays for it all. IBM had their own station up in Scotland.
 
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Tetchytyke

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But at the expense of the quality of service for those commuters. There are now two stations with the existing service split between them.

But Bicester North only had as many trains as it did as a "space filler" for when the through trains to Oxford started.

As for the OP's point, I get that the relationship between the town and the Village is fraught at the best of times. But the fact is that the station is for the Village and the Village are paying for quite a bit of it. Calling the station Bicester Village is a sensible commercial decision. Anyone who reads it as demoting the town is reading too much into it; people from outside the area will simply see Bicester Village as the station for, er, Bicester Village.
 

Bletchleyite

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But Bicester North only had as many trains as it did as a "space filler" for when the through trains to Oxford started.

I don't believe that is entirely correct; before Oxford was even a glint in anyone's eyes it had more than 1tph, which is all it effectively has because the supposed 2tph are within minutes of each other. 2tph would be fine if they were at roughly half-hour intervals - is there any scope to tweak stopping patterns so that could be achieved?
 

67018

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As per opening post, it was a done deal before it was announced. The consultation was a joke. Chiltern Railways just ignored the concerns of eg our MP, also Bicester Town Council and OBRAG to name but a few. They also didn't consult with members of the East West Rail consortium.

However I'm curious as to why now Chiltern Railways has only just put details of the rather dubious survey on their website, ie just in the last few days. I have complained to Network Rail but am still awaiting their formal response...

At least 800 people signed a petition against the name change...

So, in reality, Chiltern only really 'stuck two fingers up' at 800 people not the other 29,200 or so who couldn't give a monkey's (or, as has been mentioned, are more bothered about the actual service changes and resultant overcrowding than the station name. The impression originally given is that the Bicester North terminators would be diverted, not the fast services which have actually been shifted causing significant gaps in the remaining provision).

I would bet that the majority of the people complaining are those who hate everything about Bicester Village and will use every opportunity to vent their outrage. The railway is just such a convenient outlet.

One of the downsides of living in a smallish town is the amount of noise made by a small section of the population about some pretty minor issues. I suppose it gives the local paper something to write about other than the daily crashes on the A34.
 

Radedamer

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Surely this station isn't only used by commuters and Village People, I mean, Village shoppers. It's also going to be the station of arrival for anyone who goes to Bicester from or via Oxford, Didcot, Cotswolds, MK, ....
 

HowardGWR

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I thought the contention by NR people on here that NR couldn't care what something they own and are authority for, is named, quite astonishing. I suspect the contributors are not in authority on that subject (perhaps thankfully).
 

jimm

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But Bicester North only had as many trains as it did as a "space filler" for when the through trains to Oxford started.

As for the OP's point, I get that the relationship between the town and the Village is fraught at the best of times. But the fact is that the station is for the Village and the Village are paying for quite a bit of it. Calling the station Bicester Village is a sensible commercial decision. Anyone who reads it as demoting the town is reading too much into it; people from outside the area will simply see Bicester Village as the station for, er, Bicester Village.

As Neil Williams correctly says, Bicester North had trains over and above the long-distance West Midlands services long before the 'shadow' timetable to allow for the future Oxford service was implemented.

The station is also a station for the town of Bicester. Is that so hard to grasp for some of you? Even if it appears many locals still prefer to use the other one.

67018, so glad to see you respect the views of your fellow residents. How dare some of them have any opinions of their own and actually express them.

And it is not a fact that the Village is paying for quite a bit of it. They didn't pay for any of the rail-side facilities at all, just their new entrance area from the station. http://anonw.com/2015/10/26/bicester-village-station/#jp-carousel-76424

I'd love to point out this structure's location but the map for Bicester 'Village' on the National Rail site, linked to from Chiltern's site, is for... good old one-platform Bicester Town... which might once again confuse the newly unconfused shoppers. Not that they would be any this wiser looking at Bicester Viilage's own map in advance of their visit, which shows people where to get the shuttle bus to Bicester North but not where the 'Village' station access is.

And things could indeed get fraught again on Friday as Bicester Village's position on Black Friday - after last year's utter shambles when the town and surrounding roads were gridlocked (or maybe it was just a few deluded people who thought that was the case and got stroppy about it, 67018?) - appears ambiguous, to say the least.

BBC story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-34806751

Bicester Village shopping outlet has said it will not be holding Black Friday sales, after the event led to "absolutely awful" traffic last year.

Independent story http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...llage-on-traffic-chaos-concerns-a6733396.html

“Bicester Village is not actively promoting Black Friday,” a spokeswoman for Bicester Village told the Independent.

However she said that shops in the Village would be open from 7am to ensure that any additional footfall can be responsibly handled as a contingency plan.

They are also 'responsibly' staying open three hours later than usual, until midnight - so only the odd five hours more than a normal Friday - nudge, nudge... but no, they're not actively promoting it...

Presumably they are hoping that Chiltern will spare their blushes this time round. We shall see.
 
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Doctor Fegg

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Surely this station isn't only used by commuters and Village People, I mean, Village shoppers. It's also going to be the station of arrival for anyone who goes to Bicester from or via Oxford, Didcot, Cotswolds, MK, ....

But seriously, who does that?

I live in the Cotswolds, in another rail-connected Oxfordshire town with a town/village identify crisis. In our case, we're formally a town, but the small population (3,000, one-tenth of Bicester's) and unspoilt, cottagey air means that many people refer to us a village.

The old guard get very het up when "incomers" describe it as a village, not a town. To which my answer (even as a town councillor) is: if we're a town, we should behave like a town. Not set the boundaries of the settlement in stone forevermore. Not object to extended opening hours for the (few remaining) shops in the town centre. Not sit back and expect the world to admire us, but instead, go out and market ourselves.

If Bicester wants to be respected for its town centre, rather than for the Village, the town centre needs to sharpen up its act - and that isn't Chiltern Railways' problem. I know no-one here who ever visits Bicester town centre, even though it's just 25 minutes' drive away. Bicester Avenue, for the out-of-town garden centre, yes. Bicester Village, sometimes. Bicester North station when our own GWR service is up the spout, yes.

But Bicester town centre? No: people go to Witney, Chippy, Oxford, Cheltenham, Worcester, Cirencester and Stratford even, but never Bicester. Witney, in particular, was a similar market town to Bicester 15 years ago but has leapt ahead in the years since. Bicester is caricatured as "Tesco town": nothing but a bunch of anonymous supermarkets.

I can't pretend I like Chiltern's renaming, but I can't blame them for it. The shopping village is the one big draw in Bicester. For the town to complain about Chiltern's choice of name is confusing cause and effect.
 

Radedamer

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Who does that? I don't know, I just had a look at a map and national rail and saw that it's possible! Twenty odd years ago I used to drive through Bicester quite a bit on my way to... was it Schwarzkopf? I can't remember now! Some customer somewhere. I remember it had, maybe still has, a cheap petrol station at the southern end of town. But surely someone must visit the town sometimes. Isn't there a big army base nearby?
 

67018

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67018, so glad to see you respect the views of your fellow residents. How dare some of them have any opinions of their own and actually express them.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but anyone thinking the whole town is up in arms would be sadly mistaken. Those who don't like the new name have largely got over it by now.

And things could indeed get fraught again on Friday as Bicester Village's position on Black Friday - after last year's utter shambles when the town and surrounding roads were gridlocked (or maybe it was just a few deluded people who thought that was the case and got stroppy about it, 67018?) - appears ambiguous, to say the least.

Black Friday was a problem in several places last year, being a relatively new phenomenon causing sudden peaks in demand where they never used to exist. After last year's gridlock day people were predicting meltdown before and after Christmas and regularly since, which hasn't happened since the park and ride system has been put in place. Maybe they could tweak that process and direct everyone to Oxford Parkway to P&R!

How everyone else must be laughing at us though. Millions get spent on a major upgrade, new station and more trains, something many towns are crying out for, and all we can complain about is the name of the station!

Personally, I'm more grumpy that my normal morning train has been close to half an hour late three times in the last week or so, then there was the crushed journey on the train that was 3 cars short...
 

andrewkeith5

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even their own survey with a colossal 100 responses or so from all of 200 questionnaires sent out - it was clear that people in Bicester did not want the station to be named after a shopping centre but Chiltern went ahead and did it anyway.

What's much more clear from that survey is that 50% of the people surveyed probably don't care what the station is called, otherwise they'd have bothered to voice their opinion.

Ask the whole of Bicester and I imagine that 50% is a fairly low estimate of the proportion of people who don't really care...

Presumably you'll now try and argue that nobody will listen to people who voice their opinion and respond to surveys? Well, if you don't take the opportunity to voice your opinion at the right time, decisions will be made and won't be undone for the minority who do so late...
 
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Tetchytyke

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As Neil Williams correctly says, Bicester North had trains over and above the long-distance West Midlands services long before the 'shadow' timetable to allow for the future Oxford service was implemented.

And now it doesn't because the stoppers have moved to Village and the through Stratford trains have been reduced.

The station is also a station for the town of Bicester. Is that so hard to grasp for some of you? Even if it appears many locals still prefer to use the other one.

Indeed it is. That'll be why it's called Bicester then, won't it?

67018 said:
How everyone else must be laughing at us though. Millions get spent on a major upgrade, new station and more trains, something many towns are crying out for, and all we can complain about is the name of the station!

Well quite.

It seems that this is just the latest focus of vague and undefined complaints about Bicester Village shopping centre.
 

FordFocus

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I've read and heard a lot about this name change and I don't get why people can get so upset about the name of a station. The local commuters know where the station is regardless of whether it's called Bicester Village, Bicester Town or Nestle Reebok Hovis London Road station.

There are a large amount of tourists for which English is not their first language who want to go by train to an outlet called Bicester Village, it makes perfect sense for a station next door to be then called Bicester Village as it avoids confusion with Bicester North station.

Chiltern, NR and other parties have pumped millions into providing a better service for Bicester with more services to Marylebone and future services to Oxford City Centre with trains off to the East a few years away... More trains coupled with past expensive Evergreen projects so they want to recuperate their money somehow and get bums on seats, creating a big market out of Marylebone for leisure travellers out of peak hours. Make it easier for travellers and less daunting by making the railway simpler to boost passenger numbers. This Bicester Village name is a good way of doing it. IT helps boost Bicester's local economy as well.

What's do people gain if Bicester Village was renamed to Bicester Town other than some local campaign in a village hall chinging glasses of champagne saying 'well done everybody'? :|


Actually the number of foreign tourists milling around in a state of confusion has dropped noticeably since Bicester Village station opened. If it had been called Bicester Town then we'd still be fielding dozens of questions every trip about which Bicester station they should be travelling to. Now it is crystal clear, even to complete non-English speakers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for the implied criticism of a commercial company making commercial decisions that are in their commercial interest, well shock horror. Whatever next?

I'm both baffled and amused by how hot under the collar some people are getting over such a nugatory matter. It isn't going to change in the foreseeable future. Like it or lump it.

^^^^ This
 

Bletchleyite

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Chiltern, NR and other parties have pumped millions into providing a better service for Bicester with more services to Marylebone and future services to Oxford City Centre with trains off to the East a few years away...

No. Chiltern etc have pumped money into providing a better service for *those going from London to Bicester Village*, and to compete with GWR when they reach Oxford.

The changes are not to the benefit of the vast majority of Bicester commuters nor off-peak travellers, regardless of what happens to be on the station nameboards.
 

FordFocus

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Bicester to Oxford City (eventually) every 30 minutes?
Extra 1 tph to Marylebone?

Evergreen 3 Phase 1 project that slashed journey times from Bicester to London with a new 100mph service?

Okay.
 

Bletchleyite

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Bicester to Oxford City (eventually) every 30 minutes?
Extra 1 tph to Marylebone?

Evergreen 3 Phase 1 project that slashed journey times from Bicester to London with a new 100mph service?

Okay.

I won't be unique when commuting in preferring a slightly slower service with a seat. And the service frequency at Bicester North has, in at least one direction, been cut to effectively hourly by a bit of braindead timetabling.

Better? I think not.
 

FordFocus

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Ahhh I'm with you now, so you would prefer a slower service with a seat? Looking at the timetable there seems to be a stopping service that starts from Banbury which should be suffice for your needs :)
 

charley_17/7

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Why not just rename Bicester Village (the outlet) to Bicester? That way the station could be simply called Bicester too!

Personally, I think the whole naming issue is something to do with the station manager being Canadian and from the airline industry........
 

bramling

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I've read and heard a lot about this name change and I don't get why people can get so upset about the name of a station. The local commuters know where the station is regardless of whether it's called Bicester Village, Bicester Town or Nestle Reebok Hovis London Road station.

There are a large amount of tourists for which English is not their first language who want to go by train to an outlet called Bicester Village, it makes perfect sense for a station next door to be then called Bicester Village as it avoids confusion with Bicester North station.

Chiltern, NR and other parties have pumped millions into providing a better service for Bicester with more services to Marylebone and future services to Oxford City Centre with trains off to the East a few years away... More trains coupled with past expensive Evergreen projects so they want to recuperate their money somehow and get bums on seats, creating a big market out of Marylebone for leisure travellers out of peak hours. Make it easier for travellers and less daunting by making the railway simpler to boost passenger numbers. This Bicester Village name is a good way of doing it. IT helps boost Bicester's local economy as well.

What's do people gain if Bicester Village was renamed to Bicester Town other than some local campaign in a village hall chinging glasses of champagne saying 'well done everybody'? :|




^^^^ This

Reading this thread with interest.

A few thoughts:

It seems like the majority of people don't like the name, but equally many accept that commercially the reasoning behind it is at least understandable.

Reading through the suggestions various posters have made, personally I'd prefer something along the lines of "Bicester South (for Bicester Village Shopping)". At least this would reduce potential future issues should the shopping centre change its name, or even close down.

On a different note, I'm amazed people on holiday in London would consider spending the day to visit a mere shopping mall, but I haven't been to the venue in question so perhaps I'm missing something (and I'm not a fan of shopping malls in general!). However, for Bicester passengers it does seem like they now have a choice of travel to/from Bicester North and get a crowded train with passengers from the West Midlands, or alternatively travel to/from Bicester Town and get a crowded train with passengers from (ultimately Oxford) as well as daytrippers to the shopping mall. Not an issue if trains are of sufficient length, however I've quite often found Chiltern's trains can be overcrowded even during the day, despite the operator in general having a reasonable reputation. Certainly I ditched using Chiltern for trips to/from Birmingham as I found Virgin's trains emptier.
 

Bletchleyite

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Ahhh I'm with you now, so you would prefer a slower service with a seat? Looking at the timetable there seems to be a stopping service that starts from Banbury which should be suffice for your needs :)

It appears, from a quick look, that the 0610 from Banbury is formed of the slamdoor LHCS set. Maybe not everything is bad in the world after all :)
 

jimm

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Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but anyone thinking the whole town is up in arms would be sadly mistaken. Those who don't like the new name have largely got over it by now.

And you know this because? Another highly scientific poll perhaps...? Or perhaps it's just your opinion.

Black Friday was a problem in several places last year, being a relatively new phenomenon causing sudden peaks in demand where they never used to exist. After last year's gridlock day people were predicting meltdown before and after Christmas and regularly since, which hasn't happened since the park and ride system has been put in place. Maybe they could tweak that process and direct everyone to Oxford Parkway to P&R!

And how much did all the palaver involved to avoid a repeat after Christmas last year cost? Park-and-ride, forests of signs, armies of traffic marshals and even a special traffic order... would Bicester Village have done half of it if Black Friday hadn't been, er, black? No chance, based on many years of previous problems after Christmas. Equally, no one ever predicts meltdown at any other time of the year, because there never has been meltdown at any other time of the year than post-Christmas or on Black Friday.

What's much more clear from that survey is that 50% of the people surveyed probably don't care what the station is called, otherwise they'd have bothered to voice their opinion.

Ask the whole of Bicester and I imagine that 50% is a fairly low estimate of the proportion of people who don't really care...

Presumably you'll now try and argue that nobody will listen to people who voice their opinion and respond to surveys? Well, if you don't take the opportunity to voice your opinion at the right time, decisions will be made and won't be undone for the minority who do so late...

Have you actually read this thread and taken in the points about Chiltern's so-called efforts at consultation or the amazing smoke and mirrors survey that still couldn't produce a majority in favour of calling the station Bicester 'Village'. Chiltern weren't bothered what anyone said to them at any stage, at the 'right time' or any other time - nor what was said in the local papers - because they had already made up this mind and all the 'consultation' and 'survey' were for was to provide a fig leaf for this.

It seems that this is just the latest focus of vague and undefined complaints about Bicester Village shopping centre.

If you lived anywhere near Bicester, you would be well aware that there is nothing vague or undefined when it comes to complaints about Bicester Village - most notably in regard to traffic congestion. What its next phase of expansion brings remains to be seen but with the number of shops increasing by a quarter and parking by another 500 spaces, it won't an easing of the pressure on roads in and around the town.

I've read and heard a lot about this name change and I don't get why people can get so upset about the name of a station. The local commuters know where the station is regardless of whether it's called Bicester Village, Bicester Town or Nestle Reebok Hovis London Road station.

There are a large amount of tourists for which English is not their first language who want to go by train to an outlet called Bicester Village, it makes perfect sense for a station next door to be then called Bicester Village as it avoids confusion with Bicester North station.

Chiltern, NR and other parties have pumped millions into providing a better service for Bicester with more services to Marylebone and future services to Oxford City Centre with trains off to the East a few years away... More trains coupled with past expensive Evergreen projects so they want to recuperate their money somehow and get bums on seats, creating a big market out of Marylebone for leisure travellers out of peak hours. Make it easier for travellers and less daunting by making the railway simpler to boost passenger numbers. This Bicester Village name is a good way of doing it. IT helps boost Bicester's local economy as well.

But the poor confused shoppers have been managing to make their way there via Bicester North or ye olde-fashioned Bicester Town for a very long time and in very large numbers. The big market has been there for years already, on the back of heavy marketing by the centre's owners in China and elsewhere, and it remains to be seen if a train to the doorstep will have some sort of transformative effect on custom, compared with a train almost to the doorstep and short bus trip, using a combined ticket, which doesn't appear to have been that much of a deterrent in the past.

Tourists somehow manage to make their way to the Cotswolds by train even though none of the stations have Cotswolds in the name. Perhaps GWR will now feel inspired by Chiltern's example and rename Moreton-in-Marsh (which already has station signs in Japanese) 'Cotswolds North' and Kemble 'Cotswolds South' - the locals will still know where they are, so that'll be okay, won't it...?

As for it boosting Bicester's economy, that's a source of much debate. Many staff commute as well and most of the shoppers go straight into their destination and straight out again afterwards, without spending a penny anywhere else in the town. And local people's perceptions of traffic problems, real or imagined, about Bicester Village, do nothing for other businesses in the town generally, as many people living nearby take their trade elsewhere, be that Oxford, Witney, Banbury or Aylesbury.
 

Bletchleyite

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Tourists somehow manage to make their way to the Cotswolds by train even though none of the stations have Cotswolds in the name. Perhaps GWR will now feel inspired by Chiltern's example and rename Moreton-in-Marsh (which already has station signs in Japanese) 'Cotswolds North' and Kemble 'Cotswolds South' - the locals will still know where they are, so that'll be okay, won't it...?

We have to be fair had Oxenholme for the Lake District (in various permutations) for some time, and a number of similar examples.
 

67018

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And you know this because? Another highly scientific poll perhaps...? Or perhaps it's just your opinion.
I would guess I have at least as much evidence as you have. Maybe I was out of town when the mob of pitchfork wielding protesters stormed the new station.

And how much did all the palaver involved to avoid a repeat after Christmas last year cost? Park-and-ride, forests of signs, armies of traffic marshals and even a special traffic order... would Bicester Village have done half of it if Black Friday hadn't been, er, black? No chance, based on many years of previous problems after Christmas. Equally, no one ever predicts meltdown at any other time of the year, because there never has been meltdown at any other time of the year than post-Christmas or on Black Friday.

Congestion was a regular occurrence on most weekends. I can't see that the naming of the station would make things worse.

If you lived anywhere near Bicester, you would be well aware that there is nothing vague or undefined when it comes to complaints about Bicester Village - most notably in regard to traffic congestion. What its next phase of expansion brings remains to be seen but with the number of shops increasing by a quarter and parking by another 500 spaces, it won't an easing of the pressure on roads in and around the town.

I agree that this has been the major complaint, and explains why the relatively minor issue of a station name has caused so much noise. The railway isn't really the issue here.
 

FordFocus

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But the poor confused shoppers have been managing to make their way there via Bicester North or ye olde-fashioned Bicester Town for a very long time and in very large numbers. The big market has been there for years already, on the back of heavy marketing by the centre's owners in China and elsewhere, and it remains to be seen if a train to the doorstep will have some sort of transformative effect on custom, compared with a train almost to the doorstep and short bus trip, using a combined ticket, which doesn't appear to have been that much of a deterrent in the past.

Tourists somehow manage to make their way to the Cotswolds by train even though none of the stations have Cotswolds in the name. Perhaps GWR will now feel inspired by Chiltern's example and rename Moreton-in-Marsh (which already has station signs in Japanese) 'Cotswolds North' and Kemble 'Cotswolds South' - the locals will still know where they are, so that'll be okay, won't it...?

As for it boosting Bicester's economy, that's a source of much debate. Many staff commute as well and most of the shoppers go straight into their destination and straight out again afterwards, without spending a penny anywhere else in the town. And local people's perceptions of traffic problems, real or imagined, about Bicester Village, do nothing for other businesses in the town generally, as many people living nearby take their trade elsewhere, be that Oxford, Witney, Banbury or Aylesbury.

So where is the gain if it was renamed from 'Bicester Village' to 'Bicester Town'?
 

Andyjs247

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We have to be fair had Oxenholme for the Lake District (in various permutations) for some time, and a number of similar examples.

Again that's a geographical name. What I and others object to is it being named after a commercial business; as well as the fact that it compromises the identity of the town. Where else is the town's main station named after a business?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Congestion was a regular occurrence on most weekends. I can't see that the naming of the station would make things worse.

The railway has made things worse - as an inevitable consequence of the level crossing at London Road. Plus since the railway reopened parking on London Road has also been a problem. It certainly hasn't solved any congestion problems.
 

67018

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Again that's a geographical name. What I and others object to is it being named after a commercial business; as well as the fact that it compromises the identity of the town. Where else is the town's main station named after a business?

Well, based on another thread on here, there are plenty of places where the town's main station isn't even named after the town. Come to that, I can remember when some London terminals didn't contain the name 'London'!

The railway has made things worse - as an inevitable consequence of the level crossing at London Road. Plus since the railway reopened parking on London Road has also been a problem. It certainly hasn't solved any congestion problems.

I don't disagree, but can't see how this would have been different had the station not been renamed.

Maybe we need another thread specifically about the impact of the changes in Bicester rather than the name of the station. The things people really care about are the impact of the rail service changes where there have been winners and losers, the dramatic decline in service quality since the timetable change, and the impact of the station and level crossing on traffic.
 

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Well, based on another thread on here, there are plenty of places where the town's main station isn't even named after the town. Come to that, I can remember when some London terminals didn't contain the name 'London'!



I don't disagree, but can't see how this would have been different had the station not been renamed.

Maybe we need another thread specifically about the impact of the changes in Bicester rather than the name of the station. The things people really care about are the impact of the rail service changes where there have been winners and losers, the dramatic decline in service quality since the timetable change, and the impact of the station and level crossing on traffic.

Just to stir things up a bit, it could be called "Bicester City"!

That's the way things are going at Bicester.
I remember when Milton Keynes was sub-titled "New City" (pronounced, of course, 'noo siddy') but MKDC had only got a couple of hundred new houses built at the time - a village if ever I saw one.
 
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If the owners of 'Bicester village' have sponsored the station, then fair play!
The logical name is Bicester South.
Bicester Town - Bicester Central
Notice the station code is still BIT.
 

route:oxford

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1 Nov 2008
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If the owners of 'Bicester village' have sponsored the station, then fair play!
The logical name is Bicester South.
Bicester Town - Bicester Central
Notice the station code is still BIT.

BIcesTer - There is no need to change the short code.
 
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