Bhm New St-Stansted Apt

[ivanhoe]

Then again just look at the Peterborough-Leicester route on a map. It isn't exactly 'as the crow flies'. Add to this heavy local traffic on much of the route & congestion at many stations you can see the headache that the Birmingham-Stansted can be. XC wanted to run additional services but this along with lack of stock & the stupid 1980s plan for a single tunnel into the airport, are all obstacles for improvements. On a positive note, XC have worked wonders on running almost all services through to Stansted which is something the dreadful Central Trains where hopeless at.

Don't forget that Central were running Liverpool to Stansted . It was only when the route was split, that they managed the service better. Central were not dreadful. They made mistakes but they turned around a Government Imposed tit of a franchise. As for XC running this route, it has completley cocked up rail travel in East Midlands. Get rid of XC from this route and give it to EMT.

 

[dk1]

Don't forget that Central were running Liverpool to Stansted . It was only when the route was split, that they managed the service better. Central were not dreadful. They made mistakes but they turned around a Government Imposed tit of a franchise. As for XC running this route, it has completley cocked up rail travel in East Midlands. Get rid of XC from this route and give it to EMT.

I beg to differ. Liverpool-East Anglia through trains via Birmingham was a relative late starter to the Express network. Central became awful at this & the Liverpool Norwich. As a railway employee in East Anglia for 25yrs it couldn't have got worse than where we where in their last couple of years of the CT franchise. We now advise through & connecting trains with the confidence of them completing their journey (or on a sunday even running at all!). That shouldn't be too much too ask, however it was all too easy every day for them to be terminated at Ely (Liv-Nrw) or Cambridge (Bhm-Ssd). I have not heard any of my colleagues saying they miss those days. Both XC & EM are so much more pro-active.

 

[MCR247]

I really think that it should be put back into one 'central' franchise. Whether Central were good or not, could another operator not have done better? At the moment throughout the ex Central routes there is trains that really need swapping around. Like LM 170s, they need them for Shrewsbury and Hereford, but does Rugeley really need them? Wouldn't a 156 and a 153 be better?

 

[mumrar]

I have worked the route under Central Trains and XC and whilst the loadings versus seats may be an issue, XC are a whole lot better than Central were. When the service ran through to Liverpool it was just appalling. When it changed to New Street, things improved, but there were a lot more part cancellations and the reliabilty of the service was poorer for it. XC operate the route now without the luxury of a depot at Cambridge to see to unit problems that Central Trains had, and yet reliabilty and punctuality are far better (and I'm not talking in terms of the PPM figures, I mean cold hard facts).

I'm not sure how people expect the route to be quicker, have you looked at the location of Birmingham, Leicester and Peterborough. Unless there's some magic route I know nothing about linking Birmingham and Peterborough, this route will always be a compromise due to it's lack of directness. But that said, you normally find yourself with five distinct sets of passengers. The ones between Birmingham-Leicester (very few remain), the ones between Leicester-Peterborough are practically all fresh, then it's another largely fresh bunch from Peterborough-Cambridge and again at Cambridge a lot leave (although there are a large number who come from the North Easr to Stansted). The fifth group are the local passengers travelling one or two stops.

 

[stut]

Have the people advocating road as an alternative from East Anglia to the West Midlands actually experienced the A14 in the rush hour?

The train's aren't big, and since the refurb, are painfully cramped, but it's still better than that. I've used them a fair bit on Peterborough to Brum for work. I could probably have driven slightly more quickly, but I'm also led to believe that the police take a dim view of typing on a laptop while doing 70 along a dual carriageway.

 

[mumrar]

Have the people advocating road as an alternative from East Anglia to the West Midlands actually experienced the A14 in the rush hour?

The train's aren't big, and since the refurb, are painfully cramped, but it's still better than that.

Yes, the A14 is a truly appalling road to use at busy times. I am somewhat baffled by your statement that since refurb the trains are painfully crapmed. With the exception of the new first class, and removing the former MML first class, the seats in XCs 170s are in the exact layout that they were delivered to each TOC as from the manufacturer and the seats are just re-upholstered items of the same dimensions.

 

[stut]

With the exception of the new first class, and removing the former MML first class, the seats in XCs 170s are in the exact layout that they were delivered to each TOC as from the manufacturer and the seats are just re-upholstered items of the same dimensions.

I'm willing to be corrected on this, but...

The seat pitch on these has always been marginal for me. However, the refurb brought in metal seatbacks that appear to bulge in certain areas, and extend further towards the floor than the previous plastic ones. This means that you can't position either the upper or lower half of your legs at an angle that gives you more space, as you could previously.

All I know is that I used to find it tight, and I now find it impossible unless I can get one of the priority seats (which I know I may have to give up) or get a table seat (which means the person opposite will end up having less room, which isn't really fair). And both of these are fairly unlikely to nab when boarding at Peterborough in the rush hour (or unless you can get to the Brum end about 20 minutes early).

I'm 6'1" - fairly tall, but hardly outside a normal range.

 

[jopsuk]

Are services diagrammed from specifically two or three car units, or is it luck of the draw? I tend to see a morning and evening service as I cycle to and from work- never bothered to keep track of if particular days get the longer services, or whether it is less organised than that.

Plus, there was the one occasion I saw a 2+2 service...

 

[dk1]

Are services diagrammed from specifically two or three car units, or is it luck of the draw? I tend to see a morning and evening service as I cycle to and from work- never bothered to keep track of if particular days get the longer services, or whether it is less organised than that.

Plus, there was the one occasion I saw a 2+2 service...

Any stopping at Manea or Whittlesea have to be 2-car as XC170s do not have the facility to de-select at stations with short platforms.

 

[sprinterguy]

The ones between Birmingham-Leicester (very few remain),

I'm one of those! When I make use of the service, that is.

It would be difficult to speed up the Birmingham-Stansted trains, as the route isn't built to support higher speeds, so missing out station stops would only save you a few minutes overall over the course of the journey, as the "fast" service would still be sibject to the same speed restrictions along the route.

Giving the service to Crosscountry has been a way to reduce the number of operators running through New Street, compared to if EMT had been allowed to run it. It wouldn't fit into the London Midland remit, seeing as they are principally bounded by the WCML and west of that, so there wasn't a great deal of choice when the Central franchise was reshaped. Plus it gives Tyseley a large fleet of 170s for maintenance, keeping things standard.

I would suggest, with a couple of others above, that the service could be split to run Birmingham-Leicester-Lincoln run by Crosscountry, and Leicester-Peterborough-Cambridge-Stansted operated by EMT. It would then be possible to concentrate three car 170s on the Crosscountry section where there are no limiting platform lengths, although I don't know how many units this would take: It would work better if Crosscountry receive the centre cars from the LM 170/6s as has been intended when LM get their 172s. The few remaining Crosscountry two-car 170/5s could then go to Scotrail, and release a few 158s to EMT to operate the Leicester-Stansted service.

I'm not sure that I'm completely happy with the idea of splitting the service, as I know a few people who travel from Birmingham-Stansted by train to catch the larger flights from Stansted that Birmingham doesn't cater for, and I know others who live in East Anglia and find the Cambridge-Birmingham service extermely beneficial for avoiding the dreaded A14. But it does seem like quite a convenient break-down of the route.

 

[222007]

Any stopping at Manea or Whittlesea have to be 2-car as XC170s do not have the facility to de-select at stations with short platforms.

Not 100% correct but not far wrong. If a 170/1 turns up you are correct they dont have de-select but the 170/6 and 170/3's do and is something XC are discussing with network rail to get sorted (network rail to pay for the cost of fitting it to the 3-car stroke 1's)

I think the route works well how it is to be honest. The birmingham - stansted route if you look historically is a bunch of other lines which now fit together. Anyone who has observed the areas between Leicester and Ely will know how many long defunct lines can be seen. Also if anyone read last months copy of Modern Railway there was an article on this very line. There are a lot of places where line speed varies between running lines and also areas where the companys are actively trying to get line improvements.

As an Employee of CrossCountry and someone who has used services along this line for the last 20years i think the services need to be kept as one. Splitting services would be a bad idea and potentially put a lot of people off using the railway all together.

 

[TheBigD]

Any stopping at Manea or Whittlesea have to be 2-car as XC170s do not have the facility to de-select at stations with short platforms.

Not correct I'm afraid!

The 170/1's have a different system of SDO which is a hangover from their MML days but it is not allowed to be used.

170/3, 170/5 & 170/6's have SDO.

If a 3 car 170/1 gets onto a service which calls at Whittlesea or Manea then a "not to stop order! is issued.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are services diagrammed from specifically two or three car units, or is it luck of the draw? I tend to see a morning and evening service as I cycle to and from work- never bothered to keep track of if particular days get the longer services, or whether it is less organised than that.

Plus, there was the one occasion I saw a 2+2 service...

SX the route requires 12 units, currently planned to be 4 x 3car and 8 x 2 car. The units tend to stick on the route all day as they do not interchange with the NOT-CDF route.

Over crowding is a major issue, and is appalling on Friday afternoon, and Saturday morningsinto New Street but XC is supposed to gain the 6 centre cars from LM's 170/6's when LM get the 172's.

 

[dk1]

From TheBigD

The 170/1's have a different system of SDO which is a hangover from their MML days but it is not allowed to be used.

170/3, 170/5 & 170/6's have SDO.

Oh, cheers for that. What a diagrammers nightmare. I often watch the 17.18 Ssd-Bhm leave Cambridge at 17.51 & due to being a Manea stopper it is an absolutley rammed 2-car, although comfortabley full departing Ely no doubt. One option mooted of late is to transfer Manea calls to NXEA but this will still mean a reduction in service for Whittlsea at peak times even with some transfered to EMT. Then again with the 05.50 Nrw-Liv going up to 4-cars this may too be problematic.

 

[Aictos]

What would be nice and what what make it more attractive if it was possible to run a half hourly service on the Birmingham to Stansted routes but it all depends on having the units there to do so and having the paths available.

This would be done by having the Birmingham to Leicester service extended to Stansted which would provide much needed capacity east of Leicester.

I think the units would be there as it's just a case of extending the services but the pathing remains a issue.

 

[The Planner]

Difficult, considering the amount of paths that will be eaten up by freight along there as part of F2N. Once the Nuneaton north chord gets built it will be the passenger trains that wont get the paths instead of the troublesome trucks.

 

[Flywaver]

Im a XC Driver On this route. Believe me I would like this route speeded up but it's a long way off. Yep it's a long while driving. Coleshill and Audley End being the most pointless stops as there only needed in Peak hour. Plus Coleshill stinks from Sewage farm!
We have got one 95mph from Washwood Heath to Water Orton. I can't see why Nuneaton to Croft can't be raised from 90 to 100 and Croft also improved from 75.. Also Uffington to Peterborough could be 90 as we run aligned with the ECML for most of it... In a year or so we will see Container traffic on the Nuneaton - Helpston section so it looks like im going to milk the overtime with late running....

 

[The Planner]

Id bet the signalling doesnt allow it. Were 170s knocking about on that route prior to Croft being re-signalled ?? Id wager some bright spark thought that nothing capable of over 90 would ever go down there on a regular basis.

 

[LE Greys]

It's one of those routes that could have been a major part of XC if they had been looked after by BR. There always seems to be a weak link somewhere. Uffington-Peterborough could be helped a little by reinstating the ECML down main, although that isn't really such a priority. If there's still semaphore signalling in places, then someone should get it replaced (it may be a nice-looking anachronism, but it's still an anachronism). After that, it's a case for loops and realignments, or waiting twenty years to be able to send container traffic via Sandy and Bedford. :roll:

 

[Geezertronic]

Plus Coleshill stinks from Sewage farm!

I'd have thought you could smell it more at Water Orton since it is closer to there than Coleshill?