Bhm New St-Stansted Apt

[MidnightFlyer]

Bearing in mind it links Britain's second city with the UK's third airport, why does it take three and a half hours + to get between the two direct. Surely they could have a hourly fast service, calling say Nuneaton, Leicester, Peterborough, Ely, Cambridge & Stansted Apt? I know stock is an issue, but atm its quicker to go via London to get between the two

 

[MCR247]

Because it isn't an intercity service, because it is basically loads of local routes joined together, and whether it is slower or not, people with luggage would prefer not to change

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Because it isn't an intercity service, because it is basically loads of local routes joined together, and whether it is slower or not, people with luggage would prefer not to change

Suppose it would look bad going through Melton Mowbray, Oakham and March etc without calling, but come on: over 210 mins?

 

[Dai.]

As MCR has said, People with large pieces of luggage would not like to keep changing, it's not really about speed when it comes to Holidays and they keep this in mind. It's all about comfort and a feeling of relaxation.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But goes it look good for business?

 

[Dai.]

But goes it look good for business?

Having a slow relaxing service looks brilliant for a business. You can play on the hectic-feeling you get in Airports (I assume it can be hectic, never been in an airport). Rushing through check-ins etc. Why not take the time to relax on a train? As I stated above - It's not about speed, it's sometimes more about comfort. Your target market are going on holiday, start it at the train journey.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

OK, what about people (not going on holiday) from Cambridge/Ely to the West Midlands, pretty slow, makes roads all so more attractive

 

[tbtc]

Bearing in mind it links Britain's second city with the UK's third airport, why does it take three and a half hours + to get between the two direct

How long should it take, in your opinion?

 

[MCR247]

They can go via London if they wish

 

[Jordy]

"Comfort" and "Relaxation" are not two words that spring to mind on the Birmingham - Stansted route , it gets incredibly crowded!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How long should it take, in your opinion?

Look, I'm not going to say sub-three hoours, but maybe a limited stop service
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They can go via London if they wish

Or go via road

Do have to say its busy Birmingham N St-Peterborough at least, generally you can get a seat to/from the Apt, especially in the front coach on the return leg

 

[Jordy]

It's usually busy all the way to Cambridge really, not so bad between there and Stansted.

 

[Oliver]

Bearing in mind it links Britain's second city with the UK's third airport, why does it take three and a half hours + to get between the two direct. Surely they could have a hourly fast service, calling say Nuneaton, Leicester, Peterborough, Ely, Cambridge & Stansted Apt? I know stock is an issue, but atm its quicker to go via London to get between the two

Not many people will start a journey at Birmingham and travel to Stansted to catch a flight - there is a very large airport just south of Birmingham which will meet most of their needs.

As a former Cambridge resident, I can say that the biggest reason not to choose the train was the hourly frequency, and the fact that they stopped early in the evening; no-one wants to get back from a trip and wait 59 minutes to catch a train.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not many people will start a journey at Birmingham and travel to Stansted to catch a flight - there is a very large airport just south of Birmingham which will meet most of their needs.

As a former Cambridge resident, I can say that the biggest reason not to choose the train was the hourly frequency, and the fact that they stopped early in the evening; no-one wants to get back from a trip and wait 59 minutes to catch a train.

But come on, its the second city to the third airport (very lucky to have a direct service) but surely it could be better. Also (I'm no avaition expert) but there are surely destinations only from Stansted and not Birmingham Airports?

 

[tbtc]

Look, i'm not going to say sub-three hoours, but maybe a limited stop service

...but if you're complaining why it takes so long, you must have some idea of what would be a reasonable time?

No point in limited stop for the sake of it, only worth doing to get significant time savings, so what would be a good time compared to the 2hr 20 timings?

(bearing in mind that the last stop includes a lot of padding in each direction)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

...but if you're complaining why it takes so long, you must have some idea of what would be a reasonable time?

No point in limited stop for the sake of it, only worth doing to get significant time savings, so what would be a good time compared to the 2hr 20 timings?

(bearing in mind that the last stop includes a lot of padding in each direction)

OK, Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough, Leicester, Nuneaton, something to add extra capacity and speed up journeys, looking at paths and stuff, you could maybe knock 20-30 off, but I do bear in mind the 170s are limited to 90mph I think

 

[MCR247]

Not many important ones I should think, considering BHM has a wider range of flights and SSD being more domestic

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Like I said, I'm no planespotter Just seems a bit strange that a XC route has such slow timings - mind you suppose its a mixture of stock, paths and it being the only service over large parts

 

[MCR247]

It doesn't need to be XC but there you go

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It doesn't need to be XC but there you go

Trouble is, who else would it go to?

 

[MCR247]

Well it was perfect in the Central franchise, but obviously the DfT thought otherwise

 

[Donny Dave]

OK, Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough, Leicester, nuneaton, something to add extra capacity and speed up journeys, looking at paths and stuff, you coukld maybe knock 20-30 off, but i do bear in mind the 170s are limited to 90mph I think

170s are 100mph units ....

I'm a little confused about what your saying to be honest. It's all well and good saying there should be a limited stop service, but what about the other stations along the route?

For a start, if you your an hourly semi-fast service between Birmingham and Stansted, you'll then need to run another service (perhaps leaving 10 mintes later) that calls at all the intermediated station along the route. That causes several problems. First of all, you need extra stock. Where is that going to come from? Secondly, where does the hourly stopper terminate? There is limited platform space at Stansted, Cambridge Ely and Peterborough.

Also, if the semi-fast service isn't a success, and gets withdrawn, your then back to square 1 with an hourly all station service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

170s are 100mph units ....

I'm a little confused about what your saying to be honest. It's all well and good saying there should be a limited stop service, but what about the other stations along the route?

For a start, if you your an hourly semi-fast service between Birmingham and Stansted, you'll then need to run another service (perhaps leaving 10 mintes later) that calls at all the intermediated station along the route. That causes several problems. First of all, you need extra stock. Where is that going to come from? Secondly, where does the hourly stopper terminate? There is limited platform space at Stansted, Cambridge Ely and Peterborough.

Also, if the semi-fast service isn't a success, and gets withdrawn, your then back to square 1 with an hourly all station service.

Look - I don't do stock - that's always the problem . I'm just miffed by the service (I know they would have to call Melton Mowbray, Oakham etc). I know 170s can achieve 100mph, but they can't on the route they take - anywhere they can do 100 is where they slow for stations

 

[ivanhoe]

Well it was perfect in the Central franchise, but obviously the DfT thought otherwise

My thoughts also. Give it to EMT. In BR times, Brum to East Anglia was always a slowish journey. It serves many communities along the route and the number actually going to Stansted is relatively small. Believe me, I travel toNorth Norfolk about three times a year from Loughborough and the drive is slow. About three hours for a 110 mile journey . People are used to rambling journies from East Anglia to the Midlands, no matter what mode of transport!

 

[tbtc]

Give it to EMT

+1

Give it to EMT, and extend the Birmingham - Leicester service to replace the Ivanhoe line service to Nottingham and on to Lincoln. Simple.

Just because this route went from being run by a "local" operator to an "intercity" operator doesn't make it a "fast" service. Sure, if there's demand for a fast service it'll evolve, but I think XC have bigger priorities right now...

 

[The Planner]

Why would EMT running it make it any better ?? The route will be under a service level agreement anyway so you are just changing the TOC.

 

[MCR247]

+1

Give it to EMT, and extend the Birmingham - Leicester service to replace the Ivanhoe line service to Nottingham and on to Lincoln. Simple.

Just because this route went from being run by a "local" operator to an "intercity" operator doesn't make it a "fast" service. Sure, if there's demand for a fast service it'll evolve, but I think XC have bigger priorities right now...

But would there be enough 170s?

 

[tbtc]

Why would EMT running it make it any better ?? The route will be under a service level agreement anyway so you are just changing the TOC.

...because there's better scope to integrate services (as I've mentioned you could extend the Birmingham - Leicester onto the Leicester - Lincoln service to give links like Birmingham - Loughborough...

EMT already serve Melton/ Peterborough etc, plus "manage" some stations on this line for XC, so would remove that minor anomaly too.

Really this route has nothing to do with the rest of the XC franchise
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But would there be enough 170s?

No, you'd have to swap units around (e.g. swap the two car XC 170s for some two car ScotRail 158s to give a common fleet). Not perfect, I know, but...

 

[Squaddie]

"Comfort" and "Relaxation" are not two words that spring to mind on the Birmingham - Stansted route , it gets incredibly crowded!

"Comfort" and "Relaxation" are not words that come to mind on any British train. The appalling conditions on trains across the entire rail network is an international embarrassment.

I travel a great deal by train in Switzerland and Germany, and returning home to our shabby, overcrowded and claustrophobic trains - and I include First Class in that - is heartbreaking.

 

[dk1]

Then again just look at the Peterborough-Leicester route on a map. It isn't exactly 'as the crow flies'. Add to this heavy local traffic on much of the route & congestion at many stations you can see the headache that the Birmingham-Stansted can be. XC wanted to run additional services but this along with lack of stock & the stupid 1980s plan for a single tunnel into the airport, are all obstacles for improvements. On a positive note, XC have worked wonders on running almost all services through to Stansted which is something the dreadful Central Trains where hopeless at.