Beyond EGIP

[GRALISTAIR]

I think the decarbonisation is seen as the priority in CP6 with significant extra capacity from projects such as Almond Chord waiting for CP7. Suspect Covid further reinforces that decision.

That was definitely my understanding too.

 

[CW2]

I'm definitely in the sceptics' corner. There seem to be more ways of getting from Glasgow to Edinburgh and all points in between than can possibly be supported long term. I am always sceptical of schemes which base their justification around serving airports as well. Decarbonisation, on the other hand, seems a good call. I'll lock away my sceptical murmurings for now ...

 

[92002]

The project isn't dead, instead it's on ice until such a time as most of the ongoing stuff is done. Wiring and redoubling will eat up a significant amount of planning and building capacity, and the current service level should be good for a couple of years at least, so while it's unlikely we'll be seeing the chord any time soon, it will definitley come back.

The chord allows better capacity use at haymarket, which will in turn improve connectiveness across the central belt and better semi fast services. Currently, a lot of services skip stops and with new stations at winchburgh and a desire to better serve the airport, so the chord will allow better utilisation of paths to better separate stopping and fast services, and help differentiate the two a bit more.

It's also a very expensive way of levelling out the use of platforms at Haymarket. With 2 grade separated junctions that don't come cheap.

Trains can and do change to the North Lines before Haymarket already to allow better use of platforms.

 

[numtot12345]

The project isn't dead, instead it's on ice until such a time as most of the ongoing stuff is done. Wiring and redoubling will eat up a significant amount of planning and building capacity, and the current service level should be good for a couple of years at least, so while it's unlikely we'll be seeing the chord any time soon, it will definitley come back.

The chord allows better capacity use at haymarket, which will in turn improve connectiveness across the central belt and better semi fast services. Currently, a lot of services skip stops and with new stations at winchburgh and a desire to better serve the airport, so the chord will allow better utilisation of paths to better separate stopping and fast services, and help differentiate the two a bit more.

I would argue as well, given there are often* issues at Winchburgh at the tunnel & flooding - that would also bolster the case for the Almond Chord in terms of improving resiliency of the E-G via FH route (and rail network in general), in addition to releasing further capacity.

Winchburgh problems would need to be resolved as well I would have thought, if they are planning to continue running trains through that section for a Winchburgh Station etc. I would assume those stopper services affected by Winchburgh problems would have knock on implications on E-G services using an Almond Chord anyway. So to me, seems like that woudl also need addressed?

* I don't have numbers...just remember pre-covid when travelling between the 2 cities if there was an issue, it was usually that one. Not sure how much it would cost to fix and if cost is justified for amount of disruption.

 

[waverley47]

I would argue as well, given there are often* issues at Winchburgh at the tunnel & flooding - that would also bolster the case for the Almond Chord in terms of improving resiliency of the E-G via FH route (and rail network in general), in addition to releasing further capacity.

Winchburgh problems would need to be resolved as well I would have thought, if they are planning to continue running trains through that section for a Winchburgh Station etc. I would assume those stopper services affected by Winchburgh problems would have knock on implications on E-G services using an Almond Chord anyway. So to me, seems like that woudl also need addressed?

* I don't have numbers...just remember pre-covid when travelling between the 2 cities if there was an issue, it was usually that one. Not sure how much it would cost to fix and if cost is justified for amount of disruption.

Winchburgh is an issue, but not entirely unsolvable. The main issue is the pond to the north of the tunnel on the down side, where the water level sits above the level of the track. During heavy rain, it overwhelms the drainage and overflows onto the track and downhill through the tunnel. The pond isn't in railway ownership, but should have something done to it when they get around to building the new houses in the village.

Whether or not Winchburgh itself validates the building of the Almond Chord is debatable. Personally, I'm of the opinion that 'diversionary route' is not a valid reason to open a railway, however, in combination with capacity constraints, it's is absolutely a contributing factor.

The building of the Almond chord allows Winchburgh to happen, by making the timetable much simpler. At the moment, if you built the station, you'd screw up the timetable for the whole central belt trying to squeeze in a stop to serve it. Post chord, there's a lot more slack and leeway in the pathing around Waverley, so improvements like new stations or increased services can take place.

 

[92002]

Winchburgh is an issue, but not entirely unsolvable. The main issue is the pond to the north of the tunnel on the down side, where the water level sits above the level of the track. During heavy rain, it overwhelms the drainage and overflows onto the track and downhill through the tunnel. The pond isn't in railway ownership, but should have something done to it when they get around to building the new houses in the village.

Whether or not Winchburgh itself validates the building of the Almond Chord is debatable. Personally, I'm of the opinion that 'diversionary route' is not a valid reason to open a railway, however, in combination with capacity constraints, it's is absolutely a contributing factor.

The building of the Almond chord allows Winchburgh to happen, by making the timetable much simpler. At the moment, if you built the station, you'd screw up the timetable for the whole central belt trying to squeeze in a stop to serve it. Post chord, there's a lot more slack and leeway in the pathing around Waverley, so improvements like new stations or increased services can take place.

Would think some better drainage and a higher wall would be a good bit cheaper than the Almond chord.

 

[waverley47]

Would think some better drainage and a higher wall would be a good bit cheaper than the Almond chord.

I don't think the problem is a lack of trying (although the geography makes it an absolute nightmare to drain effectively). I've heard that it's more of a landowner based problem. Ideally you'd build a higher wall and reduce the water level to below track height, but this particular landowner is exceedingly uncooperative.

 

[Aictos]

With the Almond curve, I know there's one at the moment but it faces Glasgow from the Fife direction so bearing in mind I've not seen any plans for the proposed curve, how is the layout of the proposed curve going to fit with the existing curve?

 

[Altnabreac]

Winchburgh is an issue, but not entirely unsolvable. The main issue is the pond to the north of the tunnel on the down side, where the water level sits above the level of the track. During heavy rain, it overwhelms the drainage and overflows onto the track and downhill through the tunnel. The pond isn't in railway ownership, but should have something done to it when they get around to building the new houses in the village.

Whether or not Winchburgh itself validates the building of the Almond Chord is debatable. Personally, I'm of the opinion that 'diversionary route' is not a valid reason to open a railway, however, in combination with capacity constraints, it's is absolutely a contributing factor.

The building of the Almond chord allows Winchburgh to happen, by making the timetable much simpler. At the moment, if you built the station, you'd screw up the timetable for the whole central belt trying to squeeze in a stop to serve it. Post chord, there's a lot more slack and leeway in the pathing around Waverley, so improvements like new stations or increased services can take place.

Winchburgh station is planned to open before Almond Chord does.

The recent pause in development of the station was to review whether the Winchburgh station should be on the new Almond Chord. Now the chord is postponed the development of the station on the existing line is back on track.

The pond/quarry is forming part of the new Daisy Park being developed by the overarching developer of the extended village. I haven't heard whether that will involve a change to the water level but there has been a significant amount of Site Investigation works underway around the pond/quarry so I'm sure that option is being considered.

I suspect more significant than the presence of the pond is the fact that the railway line in the area is below the natural water table level in the area so in bad weather if surface runoff into the cutting increases above the pump capacity the railway is fighting a losing battle at staying above water.

 

[waverley47]

Winchburgh station is planned to open before Almond Chord does.

The recent pause in development of the station was to review whether the Winchburgh station should be on the new Almond Chord. Now the chord is postponed the development of the station on the existing line is back on track.

The pond/quarry is forming part of the new Daisy Park being developed by the overarching developer of the extended village. I haven't heard whether that will involve a change to the water level but there has been a significant amount of Site Investigation works underway around the pond/quarry so I'm sure that option is being considered.

I suspect more significant than the presence of the pond is the fact that the railway line in the area is below the natural water table level in the area so in bad weather if surface runoff into the cutting increases above the pump capacity the railway is fighting a losing battle at staying above water.

Hadn't realised development of the station was still ongoing. Last I worked on the project it was tied to the almond chord so glad to hear it's going ahead.

The problem with that pool in particular is that as you point out, the whole area is below the water table, and any surface runoff (as in the case last August) flows downhill into the pool. However, while it is below the water table, there is no natural outlet at water table level, and so the only way for water to drain is downhill all g the railway line through the tunnel. The change to slab track has helped massively, without ballast being washed away trains can resume relatively easily. Unfortunately, while the pool remains, while the development is still in limbo, and the property company has been unwilling to invest in proper drainage, the pool remains as a massive liability for NR.

 

[Altnabreac]

Hadn't realised development of the station was still ongoing. Last I worked on the project it was tied to the almond chord so glad to hear it's going ahead.

The problem with that pool in particular is that as you point out, the whole area is below the water table, and any surface runoff (as in the case last August) flows downhill into the pool. However, while it is below the water table, there is no natural outlet at water table level, and so the only way for water to drain is downhill all g the railway line through the tunnel. The change to slab track has helped massively, without ballast being washed away trains can resume relatively easily. Unfortunately, while the pool remains, while the development is still in limbo, and the property company has been unwilling to invest in proper drainage, the pool remains as a massive liability for NR.

I believe there is still a bunfight over finalising the timetable. One which works was devised a couple of years back but doesn't leave much wriggle room when things go wrong.

There was therefore a definite preference for doing the station and the chord at the same time but now the chord is in the long grass there is a political imperative to sort the station out in the short term even if the timetabling isn't perfect.

 

[gingerheid]

Another proposed scheme the Garngad Chord, near Springburn had already been dropped from the scheme. It was intended to allow Glasgow-Cumbernauld services to use the North Clyde Line into Queen Street Low Level, thus freeing up capacity on the High Level station. Instead services started on this route in 2014 with a reversal in Springburn, creating a slightly longer journey time.

Poor Springburn. It doesn't seem like that long since it last had a chord built so that it could be served without a reversal