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Best way to stop fare evasion

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VauxhallandI

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There is no desire to plough money into the final 2-3% of fare evasion, but there’s plenty of money at hand to go hell for leather on the 2-3% of revenue missed from mistakes made by good people.
 
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MisterSheeps

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There's all sorts of ways the rail industry could make money round the edges of the travel for free passengers ... catering, paid for phone charging & wifi, streamed content you pay for, faraday cage blocking of phone networks, adverts at your seat you pay to turn off :D It is radical, but it's the same concept as music artists giving their songs away ...
 

Bald Rick

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You could get rid of EVERYTHING fare related. Delay repay would go and the entire teams behind the compensation machine, you would get rid of thousands up on thousands of hours that go into ticketing, fare management, orcats, etc. Gatelines could also be non existent. Star/Avantix machines would disappear, Posters, announcements, etc. We would lose an entire sub section of the forum because travel is free so no more disputes, legal costs, or time wasted sending letters back and forth. I reckon the legal cost alone is worth maybe around..... £8bn...



Why not raise taxes accordingly ? When I get my council tax through I have a list of local services that I have to pay for. IF there is a genuine desire and indeed belief that the railway is a public service then why not pay for it as such ? Why not have everyone pay through their council tax and have the local services free ? My kids get a Zip card which allows them free travel on buses and trams. Old folk get a freedom pass which also provides free travel. Where I live I get a residents pass for a local river crossing for a small nominal fee.




Meh, all part of the insane money-go-round. Imagine a true public service transport system.




I think your in your usual overstatement mood. Triggered much........ <D

I don't believe that there would be a need for that much extra capacity. In the early days it would be a novelty to go places for free and yeah, I'll happily concede that there would be a spike in demand. *BUT the rail network, and the transport network in general, runs on need.



It's a captive market. You aren't going to have more kids suddenly getting a train to school because its free. Most don't take the train because they are using other means to get to school. Again, I will accept there would be a small uptake with some parents who couldn't previously afford it now making the switch but that will be a benefit overall. Same with those commuting, Do you really believe that people are suddenly going to switch from their normal method to commuting by train ? People commute for a reason, and that is most often because they HAVE to. Leisure travel would be interesting. There would be an economic benefit here for sure. I know many people who don't go into town because it costs a fortune in travel, just as much as I know many who don't go to the seaside in the summer months because of the cost to take the train, park etc. We already have many many incentives to try and get people to travel by train to some kind of local touristy thing or to drive local economy. What better incentive than to provide travel for "free"

I'll be a regular forumite for a moment here and throw out some random numbers. I think, the last time I checked, it was only around 2% of transport was rail. Chuck in the [redacted]% of travel in unpaid fares and you will chip away at what income the network actually brings in overall revenue. If you then extrapolate that moving to a tax based system you generate an income stream based on 100% of the council tax system. You now have millions more people paying for travel that they are never going to use. Personally, I barely paid a penny in train fares for about 3yrs. I've tapped in the tube but rarely use anything outside my network (which I get for free) Even if my council tax was increased by £20 a year for local train services Its money the railway would never have got from me. My neighbours are worse. They don't use public transport whatsoever. Using some back of the packet figures. My local council would raise £2.2mil in revenue if everyone paid a small, measly £20 on their council tax. I pay £121(11%) for a 'police and crime commissioner' !

Even if you didn't go totally free. You could add it to the council tax to allow free travel for under 21yr olds, Over 60's, local resident schemes (offsetting costs) What would be the savings/cost if you have a turnstile at every station where you tapped in for a quid ? Not quite 'free' but would it generate income enough to offset some of the loss ?




*and I cannot lie

Are you *sure* you haven’t been on the sauce? ;)
 

Peter Sarf

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Well well. At a time when I think the UK is beginning to wonder why it should subsidise the railways people are talking about subsidising it even more !.

As far as economics go. Free travel would definitely increase rail ridership. This lets us ignore fare evasion issue but how to keep the undesirables out of the way - no contract. I think there would be overcrowding but you might control the overcrowding by just not providing more capacity. This might drive those who can afford it to use their car instead. There is probably too much capacity at the moment anyway as a result of Covid so filling that up would be tempting. It is worth thinking about the value of the environmental benefits of rail over road and air of course. But I think the money required is too much of a stretch.

But should the majority be persuaded to pay even more to subsidise the minority ?. Only palatable if it affects the majority (clearer roads and clearer air).
 

Peter Sarf

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I would imagine those who are Aggressive, Abusive or Destructive. I don't agree with @Peter Sarf, because there wouldn't be any automatic right to use the railways, just no charge. People are barred from Pubs without entry fees.
How to enforce it though. Smart cards (ID), barriers and staff - here come the costs again.
 

ComUtoR

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I would imagine those who are Aggressive, Abusive or Destructive.

You mean the same 'undesirables' we have today ? We have a pay to enter scheme that still sees people do anything from playing loud music, vaping, and sexual assault and rape.

How to enforce it though. Smart cards (ID), barriers and staff - here come the costs again.

The cost of entry isn't a barrier to undesirable behaviour. Maybe the money saved on ticketing enforcement could be spent on onboard staff. What if that Guard didn't have to do ticket checks and could dedicate all their time to the passenger only.

You would no longer need revenue blocks or enforcement so all those staff.can go to providing basic customer service. Providing a simple.presennce on the train will help remove and mitigate against the undesirables'.
 

Peter Sarf

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You mean the same 'undesirables' we have today ? We have a pay to enter scheme that still sees people do anything from playing loud music, vaping, and sexual assault and rape.



The cost of entry isn't a barrier to undesirable behaviour. Maybe the money saved on ticketing enforcement could be spent on onboard staff. What if that Guard didn't have to do ticket checks and could dedicate all their time to the passenger only.

You would no longer need revenue blocks or enforcement so all those staff.can go to providing basic customer service. Providing a simple.presennce on the train will help remove and mitigate against the undesirables'.
I fear there are plenty more undesirables out there waiting to encroach if its easier to access.

At the moment a train is a fairly safe place to be compared to a park or even some streets at night.
 
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