Best way to get from Plumstead to Brough

[Class800]

I'm due to go from Plumstead to Brough on 15 July. Instinctively, I would have changed at St Pancras International (Rainham to Luton service) and walked over to Kings Cross and looked for a train to Hull - or failing that one to Doncaster.

But National Rail journey planner is suggesting the following itinerary

Plumstead 10.31
Blackfriars 11.04
Blackfriars 11.07 (apparently a valid connection!)
Stevenage 11.43
Stevenage 11.56
Doncaster 13.13
Doncaster 13.24
Brough 14.00

What do people think of the route options? Just looking at routes not fares - as it will be a super-off peak return Plumstead to Filey (breaking journey Brough)

 

[Dewedin]

The minimum valid connection time between St Pancras and King's Cross is 31 minutes. That exceeds arriving St Pancras at 11:15 and connecting onto the 11:33 out of King's Cross.

 

[Haywain]

I'm due to go from Plumstead to Brough on 15 July. Instinctively, I would have changed at St Pancras International (Rainham to Luton service) and walked over to Kings Cross and looked for a train to Hull - or failing that one to Doncaster.

But National Rail journey planner is suggesting the following itinerary

Plumstead 10.31
Blackfriars 11.04
Blackfriars 11.07 (apparently a valid connection!)
Stevenage 11.43
Stevenage 11.56
Doncaster 13.13
Doncaster 13.24
Brough 14.00

What do people think of the route options? Just looking at routes not fares - as it will be a super-off peak return Plumstead to Filey (breaking journey Brough)

That looks quite good as all changes will be either same platform or cross-platform.

 

[30907]

It is common for connections to be suggested at Stevenage because of the extended time allowed at STP/KGX - and convenient as you will have a reserved seat on LNER.
The connection at Blackfriars works because it is same-platform - provided of course the Rainham is more-or-less on time, and the connection is running!

Your options in case of delay include the 1148 Hull Trains off KGX which gets you into Brough only 10min later. And of course your ticket is valid on the tube if you wish to use it.

 

[Class800]

Thanks - I will try to get a seat reservation nearer time. It's a super-off peak but I can get reservations sometimes online or else at a staffed station. Personally wonder if it's worth changing so many times to save 10 minutes! The minimum connection time at KGX/STP is rather long - it could easily be treated as one station, but that's for another day. So, I will decide between the itinerary as supplied or the 11.48 Hull Trains.

 

[plugwash]

Instinctively, I would have changed at St Pancras International (Rainham to Luton service) and walked over to Kings Cross and looked for a train to Hull - or failing that one to Doncaster ... Just looking at routes not fares

Well it's basically the same route, just with different interchange points.

Both Kings Cross and St Pancras are large stations with 15 minute minimum connection times, and on top of that there is a nominally 1 minute walk between them. The walk also counts as a "leg". IMO this is pretty pessimistic, if you are a decently fast walker and know where you are going you should be able to do rather better than this.

Whereas Blackfriars has a 3 minute minimum connection time for Thameslink to Thameslink and Stevenage has a 4 minuite minimum connection time for all services. So planners can often find faster itineraries changing that way. It's also conviniant if you are wrangling luggage as the change at Blackfriers will be same-platform and the one at Stevenage will be same-platform or cross-platform. I'm not sure about the platform arrangements at Doncaster but it's not a massive place

The downside is if delays cause you to missing your connection, you are in a worse position. If you miss your connection at Stevenage then the next 3 trains from London to Doncaster don't stop there.

Honestly if you don't have luggage I would just stay on the train to St pancras and walk smartly over to Kings cross, while it's not an official connection I think it's more likely than not that you would make it onto the 11:33 (the same train that is in your itinerary) and if you don't then you can get on the 11:48 and only arrive at your destination 10 minuites later.

If you do have luggage then I would suggest using your phone to keep an eye on train running, and at the slightest hint of disruption would suggest abandoning the planned itinary and falling back to the King's cross route.

 

[Haywain]

If you miss your connection at Stevenage then the next 3 trains from London to Doncaster don't stop there.

Or, put slightly differently, Stevenage has 2 northbound LNER departures each hour, 3 out of 4 of these go on to call at Doncaster with the 4th requiring an additional change at Peterborough. So, if the connection was missed you shouldn't be at Stevenage for more than half an hour.

 

[Class800]

Well it's basically the same route, just with different interchange points.

Both Kings Cross and St Pancras are large stations with 15 minute minimum connection times, and on top of that there is a nominally 1 minute walk between them. The walk also counts as a "leg". IMO this is pretty pessimistic, if you are a decently fast walker and know where you are going you should be able to do rather better than this.

Whereas Blackfriars has a 3 minute minimum connection time for Thameslink to Thameslink and Stevenage has a 4 minuite minimum connection time for all services. So planners can often find faster itineraries changing that way. It's also conviniant if you are wrangling luggage as the change at Blackfriers will be same-platform and the one at Stevenage will be same-platform or cross-platform. I'm not sure about the platform arrangements at Doncaster but it's not a massive place

The downside is if delays cause you to missing your connection, you are in a worse position. If you miss your connection at Stevenage then the next 3 trains from London to Doncaster don't stop there.

Honestly if you don't have luggage I would just stay on the train to St pancras and walk smartly over to Kings cross, while it's not an official connection I think it's more likely than not that you would make it onto the 11:33 (the same train that is in your itinerary) and if you don't then you can get on the 11:48 and only arrive at your destination 10 minuites later.

If you do have luggage then I would suggest using your phone to keep an eye on train running, and at the slightest hint of disruption would suggest abandoning the planned itinary and falling back to the King's cross route.

I have a lot of luggage but am quick on my feet - inclined to go with KGX for more flexibility given limited Stevenage calls

 

[Haywain]

I have a lot of luggage but am quick on my feet - inclined to go with KGX for more flexibility given limited Stevenage calls

If you've got a lot of luggage I'd be inclined to go for the Stevenage option - there will be no stairs or lifts to deal with at any of the change points, and a lot less walking and no faffing with gatelines in between trains.

 

[plugwash]

Or, put slightly differently, Stevenage has 2 northbound LNER departures each hour, 3 out of 4 of these go on to call at Doncaster with the 4th requiring an additional change at Peterborough.

If the OP misses their connection at Stevenage then their overall journey will be delayed by 61 minutes.

Yes there is an 14:24 but it doesn't really help. A long interchange time and greater number of stops means it puts you in Doncaster only 4 minuites before the 12:56 does.

 

[Dave91131]

Point for the OP to bear in mind - it's not that uncommon (in my experience) for the Horsham - Peterborough service to go ahead of the Rainham - Luton service from London Bridge if the Luton is even a minute or two late.

This would delay the OP getting to Stevenage by 15 minutes as they'd need to catch the Brighton - Cambridge service to Stevenage, which is 15 minutes behind the Peterborough.

 

[Class800]

Point for the OP to bear in mind - it's not that uncommon (in my experience) for the Horsham - Peterborough service to go ahead of the Rainham - Luton service from London Bridge if the Luton is even a minute or two late.

This would delay the OP getting to Stevenage by 15 minutes as they'd need to catch the Brighton - Cambridge service to Stevenage, which is 15 minutes behind the Peterborough.

Agree - for me personally, seems potentially too many risks associated with Stevenage option - potential missed connection Blackfriars and limited alternative services Stevenage.

 

[Haywain]

If the OP misses their connection at Stevenage then their overall journey will be delayed by 61 minutes.

So the OP gets more Delay Repay!

Yes there is an 14:24 but it doesn't really help. A long interchange time and greater number of stops means it puts you in Doncaster only 4 minuites before the 12:56 does.

The OP has stated they have 'lots of luggage' so it seems appropriate to make sure they are fully informed about the choices they make.

 

[Class800]

Thanks for pointing out the + and - of the options everyone. I feel I can now make a well informed choice. Personally I'd rather a smooth journey than get delay repay as it's starting a walking holiday. I will have my large backpack plus trek poles. Boarding train at origin may be advantageous for luggage space too.

 

[plugwash]

You can mitigate the Blackfriers issue by changing between the two Thameslink trains at St Pancras instead such that if you mis-connect you can bail out and head straight over to Kings cross. It's not an itinerary the journey planners will offer, but afaict trains cannot get re-ordered in the Thameslink core, so if a same-direction Thameslink connection is possible at Blackfriars it will also be possible at St Pancras.

 

[Class800]

Thanks - clearly 2 options here. I will have both noted and see how I feel on the day

 

[paul1609]

I come in to St Pancras from HS1 and trainsplit often suggests changing to a Thameslink service from St Pancras to Peterborough and then on to LNER for ECML destinations when travelling on split advances. At first I thought it would be much slower but the reality seems to be that you don't loose anytime northbound and only a few minutes southbound and the savings can be quite substantial. I think its to do with the HS1 trains only being 2 tph and the official STP to KGX connection being 31 mins

 

[30907]

Thanks for pointing out the + and - of the options everyone. I feel I can now make a well informed choice. Personally I'd rather a smooth journey than get delay repay as it's starting a walking holiday. I will have my large backpack plus trek poles. Boarding train at origin may be advantageous for luggage space too.

Agree. You could, of course, aim for the previous TL at Plumstead.

 

[Class800]

I've decided to go for the 11.48 Hull Trains service from KGX - with the 11.33 from KGX changing at Doncaster as a back up option if the Hull Trains cancelled.