Best and worst TOCs for station signage

[WestCoast]

Another thread I've seen made me think about the signs at stations - station name boards but also the other signs.

Unlike in other countries, where station signage is uniform across the country, the UK has a massive variety of signs, some are FAR better than others.

So, who do you think has the best and worst designs of signage?

For me,

BEST: London Midland - I like their sharp design and the illuminated ones are highly visible in poor light.
Northern - simple and visible, and I always like the way they include a PTE, supporting council or sometimes a strong local lines committee/group if applicable.

WORST: Virgin Trains - Unattractive colours (although it did fit with their old livery somewhat) and not all that visible at night
NXEC's signs that live on - look tatty at York station, hardly worth changing from the old ones.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Mine's a little different.

Virgin & London Midland - Best.
NXEC & Northern - Worst.

Virgin stands out, and it looks a lot better to me. London Midland is just easy on the eyes, good to look at.

NXEC is boring, tatty as you said.
Northern is too basic, and in my opinion is boring.

 

[Jordy]

The new EMT signs that have started cropping up look pretty smart, don't have any pictures though.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The new EMT signs that have started cropping up look pretty smart, don't have any pictures though.

You mean like the white and navy ones at Derby, East Midlands Parkway and Matlock Bath (for Heights of Abraham)?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best - Northern (standard, nice), ScotRail's latest (very nice), London Overground's (awesome);
Worst - Virgin (they don't seem to really fit with the Virgin brand).

You find on EMT and NXEA that many are varying, in East Anglia, many are a mixture of ex-one signs, ex-FGE signs and attractive NXEA ones (see Forest Gate, Bures and Ipswich respectively). EMT's is a mixture of the new ones (as above), Central Trains navy and green (see Havenhouse), MML (see Kettering and Sheffield), and Regional Railways (see Nottingham and just about everwhere else!)

Personally, I like the simplicity of the plain white on EC, along with the uniform of Southern, Southeastern and London Midland.

Worst though, by a country mile, is FCC, who have about five different designs (see Oakleigh park, New Barnet and City Thameslink)

 

[387star]

Swt older signage is in appalling neglect
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why does fcc have different designs

 

[atomicdanny]

The new EMT signs that have started cropping up look pretty smart, don't have any pictures though.

I think they are the same as the ones for Southern / Southeastern / South West trains newer ones? (they look very similar)

 

[Railsigns]

The worst station name signs are those that use a condensed font (e.g "one" & ScotRail) because they're more difficult to read through the window of a train while running into the station. Obviously, any text will appear even more condensed than it actually is when viewed from the side. The only advantage of condensed font is shorter, and therefore cheaper, signs.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Is absolutely necessary to have different station signage ?

Can we have standard signage across the rail network. It would:

1. provide consistency and uniformaty for the travelling public
2. save money because signs would only need to be replaced when they are worn out, not with a change of TOCs. And a central buyer of signage would have more financial clout when re-ordering ?

 

[Oswyntail]

Is absolutely necessary to have different station signage ?

Can we have standard signage across the rail network. It would:

1. provide consistency and uniformaty for the travelling public
2. save money because signs would only need to be replaced when they are worn out, not with a change of TOCs. And a central buyer of signage would have more financial clout when re-ordering ?

Totally agree- the old BR signage was an absolute classic of clarity, and there was no need for it to be replaced. And there is no competitive advantage in TOC specific signage, and tiddly squit PR.

 

[jopsuk]

Indeed- and it would be very easy to have some form of standard sign that had a space for a TOC logo on appropriate signs (station name ones, mainly).

 

[WestCoast]

Is absolutely necessary to have different station signage ?

No, not at all. I think uniformity in this case is the best policy.

 

[jon0844]

Why do we need TOC logos at all? Especially if it is for a station operated by one TOC but served by others.

Signs should simply be easy to read and that is it. TOCs still have other ways to show their branding.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[142094]

I'd like to see how much money has been spent since privatisation on new liveries, signage, uniforms and other branding. Bet it would pay for a few new trains.

 

[moonrakerz]

There was a series of programmes on television, a while back, about the development of the UK motorways; there was a section about how much time and effort went into designing new signage for these road - very interesting. Bit of the story here:

http://designmuseum.org/design/jock-kinneir-margaret-calvert

PS: If every airport in the World can have the same signage, why can't our railway stations ??

 

[swt_passenger]

Is absolutely necessary to have different station signage ?

Can we have standard signage across the rail network. It would:

1. provide consistency and uniformaty for the travelling public
2. save money because signs would only need to be replaced when they are worn out, not with a change of TOCs. And a central buyer of signage would have more financial clout when re-ordering ?

We are going to have standard signage in England, as a result of the DfT stations review, but only as franchises change. I just mentioned it in the 'SWT signage thread'.

I'm not surprised you didn't see it though, as the thread was originally titled 'trip to Bournemouth' and put in the traction forum... :roll:

 

[Aictos]

With regards to the First Capital Connect signage, they have for some time had guidelines on the style/presentation however there are still some stations with ex Network South East or WAGN signage such as Hertford or Welwyn GC.

I find the FCC signage in use at stations such as Stevenage and Finsbury Park to be really good designs and would welcome it as the design for other TOCs although I do like the ex network South East signage which has the line's logo on it to the left of the text, pity TOCs don't all have pride in their lines ie for FCC I think these would be West Anglia (Letchworth to Kings Lynn), Great Northern (Kings Cross and Moorgate to Peterborough) and Thameslink for the Thameslink route obvious.

 

[387star]

I should be using this thread for my thread in traction and rolling stock is out of place. Sorry for the repeat...

On my Bournemouth trip I noticed the following:

Havant, Bedhampton, Hilsea and Fratton adorn the new look signage in all its glory. All goes downhill when Cosham is reached. Not only is the signage poor but the paintwork etc is all in poor condition. I am also surprised FGW stops here for surely it is a lesser station anbd one I know to be frequented by anti social behaviour.

Portchester is even worse... signage missing!

Fareham has the new signage (hurray)

All stations between there and Southampton have some of the worst signage with Sholing 'Sho' and the signs at Bursledon and Hamble so faded you can't even read them. Netley station could really do with a face lift.

I notice a new overbridge at St Denys, the only sign of improvement?... Wakefield Kirkgate the worst in the North how about St Denys the worst station in the South for that once grand now languishing feel?

Southampton has new signage except the platform 4 entrance which has faded signage.

All stations through to Totton carry old signage and yes Totton is amongst the worst. Ashurst (New Forest) and Beaulieu Road have new signage.

The following stations were a complete hit and miss wiuth Christchurch looking like it must have last seen any refresh a good ten years ago.

 

[WestCoast]

I notice a new overbridge at St Denys, the only sign of improvement?... Wakefield Kirkgate the worst in the North how about St Denys the worst station in the South for that once grand now languishing feel?
.

I think Wakefield Kirkgate still has the old style West Yorkshire Metro nameboards - at least it did last time I was in the area. That station is how I imagine Hell to be - it's crying out for some staff! Anyway, at least St Denys has some acceptable signs...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think Wakefield Kirkgate still has the old style West Yorkshire Metro nameboards - at least it did last time I was in the area. That station is how I imagine Hell to be - it's crying out for some staff! Anyway, at least St Denys has some acceptable signs...

Wakefield Kirkgate has had the Northern blue/WYM boards for about two years now, same as all other WYMPTE stations

 

[WestCoast]

Wakefield Kirkgate has had the Northern blue/WYM boards for about two years now, same as all other WYMPTE stations

Still doesn't make the place any better!

 

[jon0844]

Good, clear, signs should be visible at night too - especially when there are many trains with no PIS and no drivers to say where you are. It's always been a problem on a FCC 313 as it's very easy, even for regulars, to get confused - and it doesn't have to be 1am. 5pm in Winter is enough!

In addition to clear signs, perhaps they could be made reflective (so you can see them simply from the light from the train) or illuminated using LEDs (like many bus stops). Or, you place signs under the platform lighting (now there's an idea!).

A simple black text on white background, or vice versa, is better than some of the colours you see on the network.

 

[WestCoast]

Good, clear, signs should be visible at night too - especially when there are many trains with no PIS and no drivers to say where you are. It's always been a problem on a FCC 313 as it's very easy, even for regulars, to get confused - and it doesn't have to be 1am. 5pm in Winter is enough!

In addition to clear signs, perhaps they could be made reflective (so you can see them simply from the light from the train) or illuminated using LEDs (like many bus stops). Or, you place signs under the platform lighting (now there's an idea!).

A simple black text on white background, or vice versa, is better than some of the colours you see on the network.

FCC don't have to go far to find a solution, they can take a look at the illuminated nameboards London Midland use at their principal stations (Watford Junction and Milton Keynes have them) - whizzing past on a Pendolino they are easily visible.

 

[387star]

I'm surprised any lone woman can feel safe at Kirkgate. I've never been but my curiosity has just been awakened further. Looking at the subway on youtube very forboding!

 

[WestCoast]

I'm surprised any lone woman can feel safe at Kirkgate. I've never been but my curiosity has just been awakened further. Looking at the subway on youtube very forboding!

With the brutal attacks that have occured I don't think any lone woman would feel safe, I would myself avoid the place at all costs during the night!

It didn't even have CCTV at one point I believe. The station is a disgrace to the local council, Northern Rail and West Yorkshire Metro. One or two members of staff would do the place a world of good - it wouldn't cost that much!

 

[142094]

I think Wakefield Kirkgate still has the old style West Yorkshire Metro nameboards - at least it did last time I was in the area. That station is how I imagine Hell to be - it's crying out for some staff! Anyway, at least St Denys has some acceptable signs...

It has thm still on the bits of platform that are not in use, but the rest have been changed.

 

[Hydro]

I worked a train out from Kirkgate not so long ago. My first foray up there. If trains weren't stopping, I'd have thought it was derelict.

 

[Mojo]

I agree with those who say there should be a nationwide branding style (at least across England) but I'd go a bit less and say that it would not have to apply in urban areas where local authorities and PTEs should be able to use their own style of signage used across public transport in the aim of fostering a better local identity and promoting integrated transport. So have a common style in areas that don't have their own signage (eg. rural stations or those in individual towns), but in the case of urban areas the common type of signage used across the area should be used (eg. West Midlands - Network West Midlands signs; Bristol - Bristol Legible City signs; London - TfL signs; Manchester - GMPTE signs, etc.)

 

[Aictos]

With the brutal attacks that have occured I don't think any lone woman would feel safe, I would myself avoid the place at all costs during the night!

It didn't even have CCTV at one point I believe. The station is a disgrace to the local council, Northern Rail and West Yorkshire Metro. One or two members of staff would do the place a world of good - it wouldn't cost that much!

Thing is though the accountants would probably be happy with only having one person on duty at any one time on these platforms so given the reputation of the station, it would certainly need more then one member of staff maybe a member of Northern Rail and a member of security who would be paid for by West Yorkshire PTE.

 

[jopsuk]

I agree with those who say there should be a nationwide branding style (at least across England) but I'd go a bit less and say that it would not have to apply in urban areas where local authorities and PTEs should be able to use their own style of signage used across public transport in the aim of fostering a better local identity and promoting integrated transport. So have a common style in areas that don't have their own signage (eg. rural stations or those in individual towns), but in the case of urban areas the common type of signage used across the area should be used (eg. West Midlands - Network West Midlands signs; Bristol - Bristol Legible City signs; London - TfL signs; Manchester - GMPTE signs, etc.)

I think for signs to places such as ticket offices, toilets, platforms and other facilites a national standard font and pictogram set would not be bad thing, even where there is other branding. The same goes for station name boards. BR sort of did this under sectorisation- whilst NSE and Regional Railways certainly had distinctive identities, they both used Railway Font, didn't they? Logos next to station names and colours of lamposts/doors/benches etc should give enough room for TOC or PTE/other local organisation identity.

 

[jon0844]

FCC seems to be introducing new signs that have some standardised symbols for things like exits, platforms etc.

I presume there's an international standard for such things, or if not international then certainly EU-wide.