Best and worst coffee shops/chains etc

[Broucek]

On the contrary, Coca-Cola are one of the last few bastions of actually tasty fizzy drinks, having not resigned themselves to changing their recipe to avoid the sugar tax. Coca-Cola, 1901 Irn-Bru, and Todd's Drinks Original Energy are about the only ones worth drinking now. Apparently Ice drinks make decent tasting alternatives but I haven't seen them stocked anywhere.

My body reacts very badly to sweetener - peeing every 20-30 minutes for an hour or two

The food/drinks industry is putting in everything. You can't get cranberry juice without no sweetener and I discovered the hard way that full fat Schweppes tonic now has sweetener

 

[SuspectUsual]

Disclaimer - I have an aversion to milk so everything below relates to black coffee

I used to really like Starbucks, having drunk it a lot in America before it became widespread over here. Nowadays I find the espresso OK, but the service and cleanliness is generally pretty shocking so I'll limit it to the drive-thru. However I do buy bags of Starbucks dark roast beans to use in my machine at home and I really like the espresso and americano I make

Nero and Pret are both pretty good and I find the service good

Costa is, and always has been, the worst in my opinion. Grumpy, poorly-trained staff making bad coffee badly, that invariably tastes burnt

Grind is brilliant, the one in Manchester is beautifully done out and it helps that I get a discount as one of my kids works in a restaurant in the same building and they have some sort of reciprocal discount deal

I've only ever had McDonalds coffee at breakfast and I've always thought it was pretty decent

Black Sheep is highly variable, sometimes great and sometimes awful. God knows how they get such different results from the same raw materials

EDIT - forgot to mention Federal, who have five branches in Manchester (3), Altrincham (1) and Leeds (1) - really, really good coffee and yummy food

 

[BuhSnarf]

The best coffee chain in the world is Melbourne's Hudson's Coffee, home to a white chocolate hot chocolate and an occasional Chicken Parmigiana Sandwich, a sandwich version of the battered chicken, tomato sauce and mozerella dish.

Absolutely, the coffee culture in Australia was a surprise to me - but speaking with an Australian friend it's down to post-war migration from Italy/Greece to Australia.

There's a great youtube shorts series about a guy who comes from America and basically just pot luck tries Austrlian independent coffee shops trying to find a bad cup and ends up finding something like five of his top cups of coffee ever in a row and only finds a bad cup when he visits Starbucks. Probably overly dramatised for YouTube but it certainly rings true from my experience.


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I also much prefer tea (a decent strong cuppa - and at work with the teabag left in. . . . I know, heathen .. !) and very, very rarely do I try a coffee. My wife and daughter on the other hand are definitely coffee fiends. We are in Leicestershire (Loughborough) and have used an independent called "DASH" up the top end of town next to the former Wetherspoons. It is only tiny but the guy who owns / runs it has really put so much effort into creating a nice atmosphere and has spent quite a lot on doing out the back area with tables, chairs and large unbrellas into a very pleasant place to sit outside and pass a while. He has a decent selection of cakes, cookies, croissants and has a small selection of paninis etc.
We both believe that it is the likes of this sort of place that we should be supporting as opposed to the chains (we have quite a few in the town) - the quality is certainly there (my other half wouldn't want to keep going if it wasn't . . . !)

Also Leicestershire based and I'd never heard of DASH. Will have to check it out, thanks for the recommendation!

I drink my coffee black and will agree that the Pret filter coffee isn't bad at all but have noticed that quite often they'll try and upsell you to Americano!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Black Sheep is highly variable, sometimes great and sometimes awful. God knows how they get such different results from the same raw materials

If they're using proper manual espresso machines there is an element of skill involved. I'm fairly sure they do. Some stores may be better at training than others.

 

[themeone]

Pret's filter coffee is a very good deal, but it always seems uncertain whether a particular branch will offer it. I guess it requires an extra piece of equipment, so you'd think all larger branches would do it, but they don't. I've not tried any of the smaller, take-away only branches as I assume they don't do it.

The problem is if they don't do it, they will then offer you an Americano at nearly four times the price!

Filter seems to be on the wane sadly - Coffee #1 used to do it, but no more, and it seems very patchy at Starbucks.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Surely the worst coffee chain has got to be Gail's, if only for the rip-off prices.

Owned by Luke Johnson and, now, various US hedge funders. Johnson's career highlights reel includes Patisserie Valerie (bankrupt), Whittards of Chelsea (bankrupt), and Pizza Express (very close to bankruptcy). You couldn't pay me to go in one.

Starbucks I find very often don't have filter ready. And while they used to give you an Americano for the same price if it was off (and Pret still do), this has now got rather patchy

My experience has been the other way around: Pret will upsell but Starbucks won't. But, as you say, it'll depend on the shop and the staff.

For a cheap coffee, a Pret white filter is still my go-to though, Preferred it when it was 99p though!

They're a big corporation, but unlike others I don't see a huge amount unethical in how they operate.

They're fine unless you live next to one of their plants and need to drink the water, in which case you're out of luck: drained aquifers and toxic waste.

But they're certainly not in the same league of evil as, say, Nestle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My experience has been the other way around: Pret will upsell but Starbucks won't. But, as you say, it'll depend on the shop and the staff.

To be fair it's rare for Pret to not have filter (aside from the odd one out of the one at MKC that doesn't do it at all). Starbucks only puts it on "when it's busy" which in my experience is not at all, I think it's over a year since I've managed to get one.

 

[Russel]

My experience has been the other way around: Pret will upsell but Starbucks won't. But, as you say, it'll depend on the shop and the staff.

I've never been to a Pret myself that has tried to upsell when filter isn't available, even at motorway services they have always offered an Americano at the filter price.

 

[alex397]

I try to only get coffee from independent shops, or small chains. The coffee generally tastes so much better, and the shops tend to be clean - I find the chains often can be quite dirty.

The only chains I can tolerate are Pret, their coffee tends to be quite good, and at a push Nero. It’s not about being a coffee snob, but I find chains are overpriced and the coffee tastes either terrible or average.

 

[Forty29]

Sorry not a big coffee drinker but do enjoy a flat white, garden centres seem to do nice one's or a McDonald's one is refreshing. Always seem pumped full of air ( probably is)but very drinkable.
Also like the instant sachets salted caramel flavour, Costa seems the most refreshing.

 

[Trackman]

McD in particular are obsessive about cleanliness, and it's poorly cleaned machines that sometimes make bean to cup machine coffee a bit ick. And McD seem to have gone back to plastic lids which is good, the paper ones were useless, though some seem to still have them, particularly in Wales.

A while back I was stuck somewhere for about 18 months when there was only Costa Coffee in the canteen without walking for about 40 minutes.
I used to like the cappuccino as my first one was quite nice, after that it was hit-and-miss, usually a miss 90% of the time.
We sussed out after staying in the canteen after closing there was no cleaning or flushing at all apart from the milk reservoir.

 

[philosopher]

Surely the worst coffee chain has got to be Gail's, if only for the rip-off prices.

Starbucks - will use if there's literally nowhere else, according to Which their coffee is the weakest in terms of caffeine.

Costa - nice tea, not such a fan of their coffee. Free babychino's which is nice if you have kids with you. Food offering and service vary wildly between branches. Some good occasional offers on Costa Club e.g. 25% off food etc.

Coffee #1 - great cakes selection, nice vibe, owned by Caffe Nero but their coffee isn't so nice.

Nero - great coffee and usually great service. Interiors can look a bit tired and/or dirty. Most generous loyalty scheme - you only need 9 stamps for a free coffee.

Pret - probably my overall favourite, particularly branches that do the super cheap filter coffee. Amazingly fast and efficient service. Nice clean interiors.

An honorary mention for Waitrose free coffee, which is very nice and is from Caffe Nero branded machines. Also Cafe Pausa (Dunelm) and M&S Cafe both seem fine, but have only been a handful of times.

I find independents very much a lucky dip and often expensive, so will usually only try them on recommendation of someone who knows what I like. What puts me off most of them is the barebones interiors (cafeteria chic?) which often have all the allure of a dentist's waiting room.

Gails are good for bread and cakes but not for coffee. I found their coffee to have little flavour.

Nero’s coffee overall I find the best, however it can be quite hit or miss regarding the cleanliness of their stores. I tend to go to the Neros that I know are reasonably clean. Costa have cleaner stores than Nero, but I find their coffee to be not as nice as Nero. Both easily beat Starbucks though.
Pret’s coffee is reasonable. I do find their filter coffee to have way too much caffeine for my liking so tend to stick to Americano from them. After having one of their filter coffees I will quite buzzy for a few hours afterwards.

Black Sheep Coffee have reasonable coffee and stores, but I am not so keen on having to order through a terminal.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is Waterloo the only station in the country with the complete set of major coffee chains?

Nero, Costa, Starbucks, Pret... then also Benugo, Black Sheep, FCB, Grind, Pure, Ritazza, and the new (and very excellent) Kava… and that’s not counting Greggs, McDs, Upper Crust, or the 4 bars / pubs. Or Wetherspoons.

 

[Russel]

Is Waterloo the only station in the country with the complete set of major coffee chains?

Nero, Costa, Starbucks, Pret... then also Benugo, Black Sheep, FCB, Grind, Pure, Ritazza, and the new (and very excellent) Kava… and that’s not counting Greggs, McDs, Upper Crust, or the 4 bars / pubs. Or Wetherspoons.

But no Blank Street?

 

[Bald Rick]

But no Blank Street?

Not sure there’s space in the market

 

[Sonic1234]

Costa are a mix of company owned and franchised, which gives a variable quality between stores as well as varying prices and offers. Costa promote several deals (some of which aren't bad considering you can sit in a cafe for a while) but allow their franchisees to opt out. I've seen it where Costa have had their deals advertised on bus stops, but the Costa in that town doesn't offer it as it's a franchise that's chosen not to take part. It's like they want complaints.

Costa franchisees range from a single branch to large chains in their own right.

Coca Cola have really pushed Costa into canned drinks and supermarket products, they have no experience previously in the cafe business. I believe the really profitable part of Costa are the express machines.

 

[Richardr]

Black Sheep Coffee have reasonable coffee and stores, but I am not so keen on having to order through a terminal.

As well as Black Sheep, quite a few Costa's have a terminal, albeit voluntary. I always use it for drinks, but am never certain how the likes of sandwiches work. First time I used it I picked up a sandwich myself before using the terminal as one passes them first. Then the server [barista?] went and got me a second sandwich to give me with the coffee.

The only one of the main chains I dislike is Black Sheep - I find their Latte too bitter for me.

One oddity with Pret - virtually all the branches I go in only have one size to the latte and similar, whereas the one behind Finsbury Park station has large as an extra choice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One oddity with Pret - virtually all the branches I go in only have one size to the latte and similar, whereas the one behind Finsbury Park station has large as an extra choice.

The large size is a new introduction. It's been available in every branch I've been in since it started, but it only started a couple of weeks ago.

 

[ABB125]

What is this "coffee" you speak of? Never had a cup/mug/can of it in my life!

And I'm probably rather better off financially as a result...

 

[styles]

What is this "coffee" you speak of? Never had a cup/mug/can of it in my life!

And I'm probably rather better off financially as a result...

Genuine question - have you really never had a coffee?

I get people not liking it, but not trying it is another level I feel!

Most of the drinks I drink I take with me, including tea, coffee, etc, so takeaway coffee is more of a treat for me (or when I'm expensing it if I'm being honest!), same with tea.

 

[Richardr]

The large size is a new introduction. It's been available in every branch I've been in since it started, but it only started a couple of weeks ago.

I've not been in a Pret in the past couple of weeks, but it has been in that branch since I started using it well over a year ago. It sounds like it was a test to be rolled out.

 

[themeone]

Costa are a mix of company owned and franchised, which gives a variable quality between stores as well as varying prices and offers. Costa promote several deals (some of which aren't bad considering you can sit in a cafe for a while) but allow their franchisees to opt out. I've seen it where Costa have had their deals advertised on bus stops, but the Costa in that town doesn't offer it as it's a franchise that's chosen not to take part. It's like they want complaints.

Costa franchisees range from a single branch to large chains in their own right.

Coca Cola have really pushed Costa into canned drinks and supermarket products, they have no experience previously in the cafe business. I believe the really profitable part of Costa are the express machines.

I think Costa pushed the franchise model way too far, and give their franchisees way too much autonomy and as you say this is responsible for the frustrating variations between branches. I guess at the time franchising was seen as an easy way to expand, but I think they're paying the price now as it's affecting the perception of their core offering. And to be fair, most of this expansion took place in the Whitbread days. I've even found the occasional branch that doesn't take the Costa club card.

Contrast this with Nero, which hasn't gone down the franchising route, and the experience branch to branch is much more consistent.

Having failed to sell Costa earlier in the year, I wonder if Coca Cola will try again, and more to the point, who would want to buy it?

 

[Harpo]

Or Wetherspoons.

Spoons deserve an honourable mention. I’ll breakfast there occasionally and the £1.33 (locally) unlimited tea with the food is great, even if I need two of their dinky bags for a decent ‘builders’.

The real bonus is that after eating I can use the same cup to finish off with a pretty decent machine double espresso with plain milk (machiatto if you must) at no extra cost.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't drink coffee at all but like a decent cup of 'normal' full bodied tea. It's surprising how many chains and even independents are unable to fulfil this, given the supposed effort they go to for coffee. Various gripes - poor quality tea, water not hot enough to brew properly, unfiltered hard water, putting the milk in immediately. For me, the best for taste is Starbucks followed by Greggs. Any other tea drinkers care to offer opinions?

You are right.

Tea bag given to you separately and a cup of non boiling water…
Really really annoys me.

That’s at its worst but there are many close variations on this nearly as bad.

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A large contributor to this is the use of the steam boiler on the espresso machine to provide the hot water for the tea. Starbucks has a low volume water boiler attached to their drip machine.

In terms of good, struggling to find anywhere better than Proofrock. But they’re extremely not local and nowerdays I just make my own at home.

Absolutely correct on the cause you mention.

 

[Broucek]

The only one of the main chains I dislike is Black Sheep - I find their Latte too bitter for me.

Yes, something changed in their coffee a year or so ago and not for the better...

Amongst smaller chains, I agree that Grind and Blank Street are good!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Costa pushed the franchise model way too far, and give their franchisees way too much autonomy and as you say this is responsible for the frustrating variations between branches. I guess at the time franchising was seen as an easy way to expand, but I think they're paying the price now as it's affecting the perception of their core offering. And to be fair, most of this expansion took place in the Whitbread days. I've even found the occasional branch that doesn't take the Costa club card.

I don't think they're any worse than Subway or McD to be honest, both of which have a lot of franchised operations (Subway is 100% franchised) and allow a bit of variation on what offers are in place. It's only the motorway ones I found didn't accept the card and that was just because they used their own retail system, same with the Waitrose branches at service areas not taking My Waitrose.

Contrast this with Nero, which hasn't gone down the franchising route, and the experience branch to branch is much more consistent.

Certainly you'll get more consistency with the whole thing company owned, but it won't have as big a reach. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

Having failed to sell Costa earlier in the year, I wonder if Coca Cola will try again, and more to the point, who would want to buy it?

I could see the Issa Brothers being interested, but I'm not sure it would be a good thing given the mess they made of Asda. They are only good at petrol stations and should stick to that.

 

[ChrisC]

Tea bag given to you separately and a cup of non boiling water…
Really really annoys me.

That’s at its worst but there are many close variations on this nearly as bad.

I have no problems with paying high prices in a teashop where they use good quality loose tea and make some effort to serve it in a teapot with nice tea cups. There are far too many places where in a few seconds with they just throw in a teabag with hot water and still charge around £3.50. I know places have high overheads including staff to pay but a standard teabag, hot water and a small amount of milk will not even total 5p.

Back to the subject of coffee, I try whenever possible to support local independent coffee shops or the smaller local chains with just a few shops. Of the large chains I prefer Cafe Nero or Pret and will only use Costa or Starbucks as a real last resort if there’s nowhere else. Far too often, especially in the larger chains, I have found that by the time the barista has finished making the drink it is not actually very hot. Wetherspoons and Greggs might not be top quality but at least the drinks from their machines are usually hot.

 

[themeone]

I could see the Issa Brothers being interested, but I'm not sure it would be a good thing given the mess they made of Asda. They are only good at petrol stations and should stick to that.

Haha - I think that would truly be the end of Costa!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Haha - I think that would truly be the end of Costa!

Quite. It will, as an aside, be interesting to see how well the SpudBros deal with them goes. I can see it being an issue of expanding too fast with too little control of quality.

That said, their garages are really quite good in my experience - motorway services type facilities in much smaller locations, well maintained and the toilets almost never locked out of use unlike many smaller-company garages. They're good at that and should stick with it rather than faffing with other business types.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have no problems with paying high prices in a teashop where they use good quality loose tea and make some effort to serve it in a teapot with nice tea cups. There are far too many places where in a few seconds with they just throw in a teabag with hot water and still charge around £3.50. I know places have high overheads including staff to pay but a standard teabag, hot water and a small amount of milk will not even total 5p.

Yes indeed.
Tho it used to be possible to get a decent tea quickly for takeaway when needed.

The key to is was having a fresh catering sized large pot of tea (or even urn if demand required it) on the counter to just pour out. So long as that was freshened up and re-brewed frequently enough it would never be stewed - and as you say the costs of the ingredients for tea are so low that pouring away stewed tea if need to do so is of no significant cost to the business at all.

One place on the railway that still does it properly is The Runaway, independent owned cafe on Lewes Station platform 2 (ex Travellers Fare - TF - Buffet but closed by them pre privatisation of TF so never went over to one of the chains that took on the TF outlets c1989 when it was sold off by the BRB)