Best Air con ?

[Kentish Paul]

Travelled a bit recently and thought about the air conditioning of various trains. By far the best was 4 seperate Southern 171 units between Ashford and Brighton. They were Ice cold to the point that you considered putting a coat on. 377 and 375 were adequate although temperature varied from coach to coach. My first trip on a 444 (Southampton - Dorchester) found the aircon adequate but very loud.

My normal fair is a 395 Ashford to Stratford and back every day which is very good apart from being very plastic, thin seats and too many shades of blue.

What do others think of the aircon on their trains.

 

[306024]

Looking at the weather forecast in this neck of the woods next week I'll be aiming for class 360s. On the rare really hot days we get they are usually fine. Will be interesting to see how a 379 copes, and how the MkIIIs hold up.

 

[317666]

I find that 175s have the best on-train aircon. From my experience the system fitted to the 170s is very dire.

 

[TEW]

Desiro air-con is always very effective but incredibly noisy. When you go through a neutral section the air-con goes off for a couple of seconds and your ears get a bit of a break, but it just makes the noise seem worse when it starts back up again.

 

[fgwrich]

I find that 175s have the best on-train aircon. From my experience the system fitted to the 170s is very dire.

Having travelled a fair bit on the Alstom units I would tend to agree. The air con fitted to most of the Bombardier stuff is quite frankly awful - the worst being the original SouthEastern 375s.

 

[W230]

The air con fitted to most of the Bombardier stuff is quite frankly awful - the worst being the original SouthEastern 375s.

FCC 377s don't seem too bad. The best recent "air con experience" I recall was a 444 from Weymouth (or would it have been a 450 - I still haven't worked out the difference ).

I remember taking a 158 from Leeds to Preston in the summer years ago with broken air-con and all the windows locked shut. It was actually sunny oop north too and was a very sleepy experience!

 

[90019]

FCC 377s don't seem too bad. The best recent "air con experience" I recall was a 444 from Weymouth (or would it have been a 450 - I still haven't worked out the difference ).

Simplest way to tell them apart - 450s are blue, 444s are white.

There are many more differences, like the doors, lengths and widths, and so on, but I'll let someone else explain that.

 

[michael769]

Class 156 with all the windows open.

Who needs technology?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

180s used to have awful air con that either froze you or boiled you alive!!
156s are ok as long as you are moving at a reasonable pace!

 

[Muzer]

FCC 377s don't seem too bad. The best recent "air con experience" I recall was a 444 from Weymouth (or would it have been a 450 - I still haven't worked out the difference ).

I remember taking a 158 from Leeds to Preston in the summer years ago with broken air-con and all the windows locked shut. It was actually sunny oop north too and was a very sleepy experience!

From Weymouth, I believe a 444.

As has been said, 444s are white, whereas 450s are blue.

444s have 2+2 seating (two seats, aisle, two seats), whereas 450s have the more cramped 3+2 (but obviously has more seats which is useful for rush hour, at least for people who prefer having a cramped seat to standing).

450s tend to run on slightly shorter/more stopping routes than the 444s, but this is not a hard and fast rule, and many routes are run by both.

There are probably more differences still, but I can't remember them - I still don't have a good idea of the complete picture of the layouts of the trains. I'd quite like to, I should look it up.

 

[jopsuk]

444s have the doors roughly at the end of the carriages (very roughly with one carriage!), whilst 450s have them at the 1/4 and 3/4 positions.
450s have four 20m long carriages, 444s have five 23m carriages (so a pair of 444s is only 10m shorter than a triplet of 450s)

 

[W230]

Class 156 with all the windows open.

Who needs technology?

I agree with you there, though I'm sure most people do prefer air con. And like you say, one needs to be travelling at a decent speed.

As for the 444/450 question, I think it was probably a 444 then. It was from Weymouth to Waterloo and was I think the first time I have actually travelled on a Desiro or with SWT - a bit rubbish for someone who lives in London.

Was very impressed with how smooth it felt compared to Bombardier's offerings out there and of course the amazing views on the route. But I digress sorry, the air con was supreme!

 

[edwin_m]

Class 156 with all the windows open.

Who needs technology?

Not in the hay fever season thanks.

I'm not so bad now (and hardly use 156 routes these days) but a few years back if it was a 156 I had to sit facing backwards right at the front of a coach so as to be out of the draught. 150s etc aren't so bad as the intermediate partitions seem to reduce the airflow. Having said that the worst hayfever I ever had was on one of the old 31+Mk2 summer Saturday workings on the Cambrian.

 

[Muzer]

444s have the doors roughly at the end of the carriages (very roughly with one carriage!), whilst 450s have them at the 1/4 and 3/4 positions.
450s have four 20m long carriages, 444s have five 23m carriages (so a pair of 444s is only 10m shorter than a triplet of 450s)

Aren't some 444s 4 carriages?

 

[455driver]

Aren't some 444s 4 carriages?

No, all the 444s are 5 coaches long.

All the 450s are 4 coaches long.

 

[quarella]

I spend a fair amount of time on 175s. As I prefer a temperature lower than most the cold blast in certain seats suits me, knowing that two rows away it will be a lot warmer. Does that make this the best air con though? In one way yes as, subject to knowing where to sit, and available seats it provides a variety of temperatures to suit different preferences, however in another way it is failing by not providing a consistent comfortable temperature throughout the coach.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Drivers cab on a class 165. I could wear a duffel coat in there on a hot summers day and still be cool from the air con. It is glorious.

 

[TDK]

Travelled a bit recently and thought about the air conditioning of various trains. By far the best was 4 seperate Southern 171 units between Ashford and Brighton. They were Ice cold to the point that you considered putting a coat on. 377 and 375 were adequate although temperature varied from coach to coach. My first trip on a 444 (Southampton - Dorchester) found the aircon adequate but very loud.

My normal fair is a 395 Ashford to Stratford and back every day which is very good apart from being very plastic, thin seats and too many shades of blue.

What do others think of the aircon on their trains.

The aircon in the cab of a refurbished 158

 

[upnorth71]

Nice aircon in a cab doesn't help all those people who are sitting past the cab wall (and providing the revenues).

 

[Class172]

The air con on a Class 172 seems very good in the passenger saloon. Put your hand next to the vent and it doesn't seem too powerful but it certainly has an effect.

 

[W230]

Nice aircon in a cab doesn't help all those people who are sitting past the cab wall (and providing the revenues).

It does - it helps the driver do what they're supposed to and not cancel the train because of cab heating/cooling issues.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Nice aircon in a cab doesn't help all those people who are sitting past the cab wall (and providing the revenues).

Ah, but that is where you are wrong! I can't speak for all trains but a 165 is typical of a lot of them and there are two air conditioning units housed in the roof of each carriage so each covers about half of the seats. The one at the drivers end will tend to be more well maintained (because you know, drivers complain about these types of things in a way that the maintenance depot will almost certainly see) and on a lot of trains the driver also has a large degree of control over the air conditioner. So if you are in a train on a particularly hot day sit as close as possible to the driver and you are a lot more likely to be cooled by a very nice air conditioning unit.

 

[jon0844]

I have no problem with a driver being able to sit comfortably in the cab all year around. It doesn't stop me wishing we had aircon throughout the train, but I'd definitely say the driver should get the special treatment - including a chair that can be adjusted properly.

We at least have a choice on whether to take a train on a boiling hot day.

 

[slick]

The 379's have very nice aircon in the carriages. Ive yet to walk through and find a less than ice cold carriage.

The drivers aircon on the other hand is a bit more hit and miss. Some units even with the temp knob all the way round to cold blow nothing but ambient temp air, and the only way to remmedy the fault is a full AUX OFF reset which in service is avioded. According to bombardier fitters the problem is compounded by drivers pressing the Saloon cab damper button in the tcms which turns off the drivers aircon for around 5 mins as many drivers find it noisy and prefer the windows down.

315's are good most of the time, when they work they work very well.

317s are useless. Most either blow warm air as the cooling unit doesnt work, or the cooling unit works but doesnt blow.. Whoever wired them was bonkers as the cab aircon is routed through the train heat MCB for the whole train. So in summer when the coach heater thermostats deceide to play up and boil the passangers fleet knock them out by tripping the train heat MCB which in turn stops the aircon working. Clever! Forgetting to turn off the aircon in the cab at one end and turning it on at the other end also causes the whole lot to trip out. They've started to modify this though by only allowing aircon to be used if a master key is inserted.

 

[317666]

I spend a fair amount of time on 175s. As I prefer a temperature lower than most the cold blast in certain seats suits me, knowing that two rows away it will be a lot warmer. Does that make this the best air con though? In one way yes as, subject to knowing where to sit, and available seats it provides a variety of temperatures to suit different preferences, however in another way it is failing by not providing a consistent comfortable temperature throughout the coach.

I also tend to prefer lower temperatures to most people, the thing I like most about the 175 aircon is the cold blast as you first board the train. I find it tends to be warmer towards the centre of the coach, and cooler towards the ends.

From my experience, Electrostars are the worst trains for the temperature not being consistent through the train. Usually it's boiling at one end of the coach and freezing at the other!

As for Desiro aircon being too noisy, I generally get used to it after a few minutes so to me it isn't a problem.

 

[zoneking]

Southern 377s without a doubt - often too cold.

 

[itsjamierawr]

In my experience the Class 185s have pretty good aircon year round, in winter it's not too cold and in summer not too hot even when there's not even standing room from Preston to Manchester

 

[TDK]

Nice aircon in a cab doesn't help all those people who are sitting past the cab wall (and providing the revenues).

I don't sit there so cannot complain

 

[bronzeonion]

Class 378 and Class 357. Electrostar aircon does work if well maintained!

 

[A-driver]

Surprisingly the 321s on our routes have the best air con (glad they are good for something!)

I had one earlier today and it actually got too cold and I had to turn it off for a bit! I then jumped into a 365 and am still sweating from it, even though the cab cooling was on full for the entire 90 min trip!