Berlin U Bahn: gateless

[387star]

Why are there no ticket gates protecting U Bahn stations?
No sign of staff either

 

[Mag_seven]

Why are there no ticket gates protecting U Bahn stations?
No sign of staff either

Because its a cultural thing that everyone using the system in Germany has a ticket - there are "zero tolerance" spot checks and big fines if caught without one though!

 

[JonathanP]

The system works on trust.

There are roaming inspectors, if you are caught you will be fined €60.

There is nothing unusual about this, all transport systems in Germany work this way.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Interesting how the Netherlands and France don't work in the same way, massive barriers at many stations there.

 

[deltic]

Because its a cultural thing that everyone using the system in Germany has a ticket - there are "zero tolerance" spot checks and big fines if caught without one though!

I am always amused by claims of a culture of always paying fares - German media reported earlier this year that "Almost one in five Berliners (18.3 percent) said that they sometimes knowingly travel without a ticket, the highest proportion in the country."

 

[Starmill]

I am always amused by claims of a culture of always paying fares - German media reported earlier this year that "Almost one in five Berliners (18.3 percent) said that they sometimes knowingly travel without a ticket, the highest proportion in the country."

I think it is possible for it to be part of a people's culture to believe themselves trustworthy, rather than also actually be trustworthy. I shan't comment on the specifics of this case though!

 

[DuncanS]

Was in Munich Central last week and if I was dishonest I could have got there and back from the airport without actually buying a ticket as it wasn't checked in either direction or at the stations.

HOWEVER, I had 90 minutes in Munich and whilst exploring the shops in the lower level I did see that one of the entrances/exits to the local lines had been swamped by inspectors and they were checking all people entering and exiting, they appeared to be making a pretty penny.

 

[387star]

S Bahn the same
Presume stations employ almost no staff

 

[AnkleBoots]

Lyon, Lille and Toulouse metro systems have no drivers, and unstaffed barriers. I think.

 

[Mag_seven]

I am always amused by claims of a culture of always paying fares - German media reported earlier this year that "Almost one in five Berliners (18.3 percent) said that they sometimes knowingly travel without a ticket, the highest proportion in the country."

Well of course if it was based entirely on trust there would be no need for any checks or fines!

 

[sheff1]

It is just the way it is in many countries. Ticket checks may be more frequent than you think and when they happen there is no messing about - inspectors are armed in some places. Carrying ID is compulsory as well, so no false name 'option'.

 

[AnkleBoots]

It is just the way it is in many countries. Ticket checks may be more frequent than you think and when they happen there is no messing about - inspectors are armed in some places. Carrying ID is compulsory as well, so no false name 'option'.

Wow. Armed with a gun? Sounds scary.

I saw inspectors on a bus in France with some kind of electric shock device to protect against being attacked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is just the way it is in many countries. Ticket checks may be more frequent than you think and when they happen there is no messing about - inspectors are armed in some places. Carrying ID is compulsory as well, so no false name 'option'.

Carrying ID isn't compulsory in Germany in and of itself, though it is convention to carry it and as such things may be quite awkward for you if caught Schwarzfahren and unable to prove who you are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow. Armed with a gun? Sounds scary.

I saw inspectors on a bus in France with some kind of electric shock device to protect against being attacked.

I've never seen an armed ticket inspector in Germany. Normally they are plain clothes, but you can usually tell who they are because they employ, err, a certain type of person, and they always act the same when they board, as they go and stand by doors to stop people getting off having seen them[1]. (Think the look of a typical "rent-a-thug" security guard).

[1] I once did quickly get off when they boarded, not because I didn't have a ticket but because I wasn't paying attention and almost missed my stop. One of them got off with me and asked for my ticket, which I was happy to provide. He was not impressed

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I am told that some of the revenue inspectors in Berlin are "community service individuals" , i.e instead of picking litter etc , they do some time on ticket inspection etc. Presumably with some full time employed staff.

 

[duesselmartin]

Usually security firms so the inspections for U Bahn and trams.

 

[daveshah]

It was the same when I was in Vienna. The penalty for evasion was around €150, IIRC; but a year's travel was only about €400 or a month for €49. So you didn't have to be caught many times in a year for fare evasion not to be worthwhile.

 

[Groningen]

This is outside this topic, but not all stations in the Netherlands will get gates. From the 7 branch lines of Arriva (North) only Leeuwarden has gates.

 

[duncanp]

Lyon, Lille and Toulouse metro systems have no drivers, and unstaffed barriers. I think.

Lille is introducing barriers at the busiest stations on the network in order to cut down on ticketless travel.

Lille Europe already has them, and gates are being installed at Lille Flandres.

 

[Segedunum]

Toulouse Metro definitely had gates at Marengo/SNCF station when I used it, can't remember about the other end where I alighted.

 

[Mojo]

I am always amused by claims of a culture of always paying fares - German media reported earlier this year that "Almost one in five Berliners (18.3 percent) said that they sometimes knowingly travel without a ticket, the highest proportion in the country."

Yes this makes me chuckle, I've been to Berlin a few times in recent years and the system certainly feels a lot more "lawless" than those in other countries with frequent appearances of beggars and buskers, as well as significant amounts of graffiti and general grime. It's so bad that every train is obscured by film on the windows with a repetitive pattern (https://ilyabirman.net/meanwhile/pictures/berlin-u-bahn-IMG_3591.jpg). Yes I know that UK trains and buses have film on the windows, however it is transparent and therefore invisible to the untrained eye.

Anyone who's ever been to Paris can't not have noticed the prevalence of hopping over the barriers; much more common than barrier jumping or doubling through in London.

I've never seen an armed ticket inspector in Germany. Normally they are plain clothes, but you can usually tell who they are because they employ, err, a certain type of person, and they always act the same when they board, as they go and stand by doors to stop people getting off having seen them[1]. (Think the look of a typical "rent-a-thug" security guard).

I went to the Costa del Sol a few years ago before they got their gateline on the local commuter rail service and saw a few roving security/revenue staff who were not only armed but also accompanied by an aggressive looking dog on a lead!

 

[alex397]

I was once on the Berlin U-Bahn, when some youth in a hoodie sat opposite me. Once the train left the station, he got up, showed his pass and asked to check tickets. I certainly wouldn't want to risk not having a ticket, as the inspectors can seemingly be anyone.

I've usually felt perfectly safe, despite no barriers or any staff (I'm not actually sure i've ever seen a staff member on the U-Bahn). That compares to Paris, which has barriers, but feels quite unsafe. Not unsafe enough to make me not travel, but its the most unsafe i've felt anywhere in Europe on public transport. I've had a few occasions when certain types have grabbed my arm to try and get me to give them money, or buy some of their tat - not nice.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[YorkshireBear]

In Hamburg, maybe...

You wouldn't have spotted the two on a late-night U-bahn in Düsseldorf, who were a punk lesbian couple snogging - until the tram started moving and their ID cards came out!

That (not specifically) is a great way of doing things I think. Just makes people always not know whether everyone is about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Hamburg, maybe...

You wouldn't have spotted the two on a late-night U-bahn in Düsseldorf, who were a punk lesbian couple snogging - until the tram started moving and their ID cards came out!

I love it

 

[Spoorslag '70]

Well, if you know how they behave (e.g. standing together when plenty of seats are aviable etc.) you can spot them relativley quickly - 95% of the time I'm controlled on my local U79 it's perfectly clear what will happen from when they board. Staff at stations is a very un-german thing (even on the mainline (except for the largest stations)), leading to the general decline of provisions and no flowers or anything remotley similair to your standard station in Britain.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

I sometimes feel like they are too few inspectors. I have travelled from Hagen to Cologne (journey of one hour) and back often times without being checked once.

 

[paddington]

I spent 3 days in Berlin travelling the entire local network and I never had tickets checked except on the RB trains around Golm which have guards(?)

Then on another trip I took the U-bahn around Alexanderplatz a lot, and got checked on at least 50% of trains.

I spent a day in Sofia and Bucharest each, took about 4 buses in the suburbs where visitors never go, and got checked once in both cities. So many people had no ticket that inspections must be not be that common, the fine is punitive compared to the cost of a ticket (especially the cost of monthly passes) as well as the average wage.

I was a bit confused about revenue protection in Budapest as I saw plenty of inspectors, but they stood at the entrance to stations or platforms. I observed many people who had no ticket change direction towards the ticket machines when they saw the inspectors. I also saw some people try to sneak past the inspectors without tickets, sometimes they weren't caught and if they were, they were just told to buy a ticket. People exiting stations were never checked even though that would seem to make more sense.

 

[Giugiaro]

There are roaming inspectors, if you are caught you will be fined €60.

Damn. I've been in Berlin for Innotrans, and used and abused of the 24 hour pass during the weekend. Since they told that anything that had the VBB logo on it could be used to travel around, I slowly gained confidence to ride other trains like the RE family.

I got a check only once on the S-Bahn between Alexanderplatz and Ostbahnoff, and the inspector wasn't wearing any uniform, and had her equipment hidden inside her jacket. It was a f****g shock when she yelled "Zeigen Sie Ihre Tickets bitte!", and everyone rushed to get their tickets and passes out!

In Porto they also have a similar trust system on both Metropolitan and Suburban areas. Inspections always take place on the suburban rail, occasionally on buses and metro, and sometimes they also block the exit at main stations for inspections.

But, unlike Berlin, our fine is a pleasant 250€. Roughly 40% minimum wage, just to have an idea.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>