Berlin S Bahn fine

[wsxsafc]

Hi everyone. I feel like I need a a bit of clarification/a place to vent.

Was travelling back to Berlin Brandenburg airport on Sunday, I’d purchased my €4 single ticket on the BVG app and hopped straight on the S Bahn. Immediately after boarding I was asked to show my ticket, unfortunately I didn’t realise that the ticket takes 1 minute to become valid, the plain clothed officer asks me to get off at the next station so he can issue me a €60 fine. Now I have never known this 1 minute wait to ever be a thing but I found it pointless arguing with someone who’s English was very broken.

My issue is I never intended to travel without a ticket and if I had known about the 1 minute wait I would have just waited for the next service. The app states the ticket is valid “immediately” when it technically isn’t… I will be trying to contest it but just wondered if I have a leg to stand on? I have screenshots of the time of the ticket confirmation and what S Bahn service I boarded.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi everyone. Not sure if this section is exclusively to UK railway but feel like I need a a bit of clarification/a place to vent.

Was travelling back to Berlin Brandenburg airport on Sunday, I’d purchased my €4 single ticket on the BVG app and hopped straight on the S Bahn. Immediately after boarding I was asked to show my ticket, unfortunately I didn’t realise that the ticket takes 1 minute to become valid, the plain clothed officer asks me to get off at the next station so he can issue me a €60 fine. Now I have never known this 1 minute wait to ever be a thing but I found it pointless arguing with someone who’s English was very broken.

My issue is I never intended to travel without a ticket and if I had known about the 1 minute wait I would have just waited for the next service. The app states the ticket is valid “immediately” when it technically isn’t… I will be trying to contest it but just wondered if I have a leg to stand on? I have screenshots of the time of the ticket confirmation and what S Bahn service I boarded.

The BVG website states:

When is my purchased BVG mobile ticket valid?
BVG mobile tickets without a selection option are activated 60 seconds after purchase to start the journey. During these 60 seconds, the barcode of the ticket is grayed out and not readable - the ticket only becomes valid and readable after this countdown has expired.

Link to the relevant piece:

Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe

All information at a glance.

www.bvg.de

 

[wsxsafc]

Whilst it does mention it through that link, I’ve tried looking through the entire app to see if it states that and couldn’t find it.

 

[Segedunum]

It will be a design feature to stop people buying a ticket then waiting for an inspection to happen before bothering to activate it.

The PID Litačka app for Prague public transport has the same "feature" - but its a whole two minutes which is even worse. Inspectors in both cities are pretty ruthless, too.

It's certainly unfriendly (and poor form if you've quite clearly just got on the train) but you can see why it's there. I suppose their argument will be was it activated because you saw the inspectors, or not?

 

[Feuillesmortes]

It will be a design feature to stop people buying a ticket then waiting for an inspection to happen before bothering to activate it.

Seems harsh. If it was a paper ticket it could easily take 60 seconds for someone to locate it in their handbag.

 

[Segedunum]

Seems harsh. If it was a paper ticket it could easily take 60 seconds for someone to locate it in their handbag.

The equivalent would be not stamping/validating a paper ticket before travel. Once the ticket is activated and the countdown is complete, it's valid (usually with unlimited changes in specified zones) for a set time.

In essence, the countdown needs to be finished by the time you board. In practice if you buy it on the way to the station, activate it as the train arrives and immediately get inspected - clearly a ruthless RPI thinks nothing of slapping you with a penalty.

 

[D365]

I'll bear this in mind for my future travels...

 

[wsxsafc]

It's certainly unfriendly (and poor form if you've quite clearly just got on the train) but you can see why it's there. I suppose their argument will be was it activated because you saw the inspectors, or not?

Can totally understand with the last part especially if people were intending not to pay. I think it’s highly likely he saw me hop on as within seconds he was asking me for my ticket and considering they are plain clothed I think just proves my intention was always to travel with a ticket.

 

[The exile]

It’s also worth pointing out that you had committed a ticketing offence even before you boarded the train as the platforms are also “penalty fare areas” where a valid ticket is required.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

It’s also worth pointing out that you had committed a ticketing offence even before you boarded the train as the platforms are also “penalty fare areas” where a valid ticket is required.

Is this a specific Berlin thing or nationwide for S Bahnen?

 

[Segedunum]

Is this a specific Berlin thing or nationwide for S Bahnen?

It's quite common on many U-Bahn/S-Bahn systems across Germany/Switzerland/Austria (at least near urban centres).

Anything that operates on a "Selbkontrolle" (self-checking, basically no gates) basis tends to have some sort of signage saying a ticket is required after this point (or similar).

The nearest equivalent in the UK would be the Tyne & Wear Metro - where you can in theory have details taken for simply being in a paid area without a ticket.

 

[fandroid]

Is this a specific Berlin thing or nationwide for S Bahnen?

They are all slightly different. In Frankfurt, for instance, there's no need to validate a paper ticket, as it's start time is the same as the purchase time.

I've only just started using etickets on local transport in Germany, so the validation delay is a new thing to me

I'm due in Berlin at the end of this month so I'll check it out the. The inspectors in Berlin are quite scary, and checks are not rare!

 

[island]

As others mention this is a procedure to discourage activating/buying tickets only when you see an inspector.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably this sort of situation will be by-passed by the monthly €49 ticket?
Once purchased, your ticket will be valid on all local transport for the whole month.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

The inspectors in Berlin are quite scary, and checks are not rare!

I am relaxed about using etickets in the UK but I think paper feels safer in Germany if they are going to be all Null-Toleranz about validating.

 

[wsxsafc]

As others mention this is a procedure to discourage activating/buying tickets only when you see an inspector.

Which kinda defeats the point of them doing it undercover then. Unless they will start wearing a uniform…

 

[The exile]

Which kinda defeats the point of them doing it undercover then. Unless they will start wearing a uniform…

Not really - they’re only undercover until they start checking tickets - at that point their cover is blown to anyone who is being observant.

 

[island]

Presumably this sort of situation will be by-passed by the monthly €49 ticket?
Once purchased, your ticket will be valid on all local transport for the whole month.

Yes, most likely.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s also worth pointing out that you had committed a ticketing offence even before you boarded the train as the platforms are also “penalty fare areas” where a valid ticket is required.

Not necessarily, as in Berlin the ticket machines are on the platform in many cases (certainly at Anhalter Bahnhof they are).

Reminds me to stick with paper tickets, though.

 

[AdamWW]

Not really - they’re only undercover until they start checking tickets - at that point their cover is blown to anyone who is being observant.

Or when they are in plain clothes but with DB branded rucksacks...

 

[dutchflyer]

Hm, that could be any staff-member going to work, or coming off it. Drivers etc do not wear specific uniforms there.

 

[AdamWW]

Hm, that could be any staff-member going to work, or coming off it. Drivers etc do not wear specific uniforms there.

I don't think so. Unless they were all doing a bit of free-lance ticket inspecting on the way...

Going back to the original post - the 1 minute rule might be a good idea but surely the app needs to warn you of it, rather than have it buried somewhere in the terms and conditions?

 

[Doppelganger]

Have you paid the fine already, and if not what details did they take from you?

 

[Ediswan]

Link to the relevant piece:

Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe

All information at a glance.

www.bvg.de

That document also states, prior to any mention of a 60 second delay:

Short-distance tickets, connecting tickets and single tickets are always valid immediately.

Maybe something got lost in translation.

 

[rvdborgt]

My issue is I never intended to travel without a ticket and if I had known about the 1 minute wait I would have just waited for the next service. The app states the ticket is valid “immediately” when it technically isn’t… I will be trying to contest it but just wondered if I have a leg to stand on? I have screenshots of the time of the ticket confirmation and what S Bahn service I boarded.

Just contest it (including a screenshot that mentions "valid immediately") and if that doesn't help, go to the söp:

Schlichtung Reise & Verkehr: Consumer Arbitration Board

As a recognized consumer arbitration board, Schlichtung Reise & Verkehr is the out-of-court settlement of disputes between travelers and companies.

soep-online.de

 

[wsxsafc]

Just contest it (including a screenshot that mentions "valid immediately") and if that doesn't help, go to the söp:

Schlichtung Reise & Verkehr: Consumer Arbitration Board

As a recognized consumer arbitration board, Schlichtung Reise & Verkehr is the out-of-court settlement of disputes between travelers and companies.

soep-online.de

Thanks. I did include the screenshot where it says “valid immediately”, I’ll also add it here..

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

Have you paid the fine already, and if not what details did they take from you?

I refused to pay it there and then. They took my details down and printed off a receipt of some kind which includes the case number and how to pay said fine (14 days).

 

[Doppelganger]

I refused to pay it there and then. They took my details down and printed off a receipt of some kind which includes the case number and how to pay said fine (14 days).

I assume you don't live in Germany then?

To be honest if that's the case I'd just forget about it.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

It’s also worth pointing out that you had committed a ticketing offence even before you boarded the train as the platforms are also “penalty fare areas” where a valid ticket is required.

I don't see how that could possibly be true. On almost all S-Bahn and U-Bahn stations the ticket machines are located on the platforms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume you don't live in Germany then?

To be honest if that's the case I'd just forget about it.

Not sensible as you could be arrested on return. It is not a civil debt, it has legal basis.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2023 ==

I don't see how that could possibly be true. On almost all S-Bahn and U-Bahn stations the ticket machines are located on the platforms.

Not everywhere. In Hamburg they are mostly up top and you pass a clear line on the floor stating the start of the compulsory ticket area.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2023 ==

Not really - they’re only undercover until they start checking tickets - at that point their cover is blown to anyone who is being observant.

TBH I could tell them the second they got on. They tend to stand by all sets of doors to block anyone who sees them and alights. Did that to me once, I nearly missed my stop and got up and alighted quickly, one followed and was visibly quite miffed when I produced a valid ticket.

 

[duesselmartin]

Osten sub contractors are used on ticket checks. So don't rely in DB rucksacks. They get a bonus for catching lots of offenders. That makes Thema difficult to deal with from a costumer point of view.