Bendy Buses in the UK

[Antman]

I genuinely liked the London Mercs. Really suited to th 507 and 521 routes Now operated using rigid mercs with about 12 seats

The 521 is only busy at peak times, I think the rigids are fine

 

[bussnapperwm]

NXWM used to operate a batch of Scania OmniCity antics in Birmingham on the 67 to Castle Vale.
They still run some Mercedes Citaro artics on the 4 service in Coventry serving Arena Tesco and the City Centre

 

[Antman]

London may be catching on. Last year I saw an African-looking bloke in dreadlocks and baseball cap stand up on the bus and produced a pass identifying him as an undercover inspector, then proceeded to politely check everyones tickets and Oysters. And recently I saw a TfL poster warning that anyone could be an inspector in disguise.

I agree Paris isn't a good example to follow though...

Have you seen the contempt they get treated with in London? Either ignored or sworn at.

I saw a RPI on a LT recently but the snail pace he went round gave any fare dodger plenty of time to get off which I suspect was the whole idea, gives him an easy life and TfL can say they've done ticket checks and everybody had one.

Realistically either everyone gets on through the front door and passes the driver or a loss of revenue through fare evasion is inevitable.
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Boris decided that they weren't suitable for narrow, tight London streets, despite the fact that they work very well on York's Park and Ride (just as an illustrative example).
It's not uncommon to see three double-deck 25s in Forest Gate, one behind the other, with the third almost empty, where you would have seen one artic. That's three times as much in wages and fuel being paid out unnecessarily.

The 25 was a nightmare with bendy buses, the route was rammed with free loaders and at busy times all seats were taken by the time it reached Tottenham Court Road, does anybody really want to stand all the way to Ilford?

Now of course everybody pays and most people get a seat.

Inevitably on a route like the 25 there will be bunching and the chaos three bendybuses in a row caused was something else!

 

[Greenback]

The introduction of bendy buses in Swansea was very expensive and ultimately, a failure, seeing as they will now be withdrawn after less than 10 years. I'm pretty sure that history will judge the idea a huge flop.

 

[smtglasgow]

I use the 29 in London a lot, and while I prefer the current deckers, the bendies were far faster. A late evening run from Finsbury Park to Camden – usually packed – was quite exciting as we hurtled through Holloway! They were brilliant as hoovering up large crowds, but as others have noted, there is a limit to how far people are willing to stand. Nevertheless, for short distance heavy loads they are unbeatable. I only used the 25 a few times when it had bendibuses, but the sheer volume of passengers and the fact that a lot of people are travelling longish distances meant that it was obviously a mistake from the very start. Even with the high frequency double deckers we have now, the 25 can struggle. Wasn’t one of the problems with the bendibus routes the fact that the frequencies weren’t enhanced despite the reduction in seats? It was only with reconversion to double deckers that we got the current very high frequencies – and consequent boost in seats per hour.

 

[Tibbs]

Interesting that the 29 route used to be bendy buses, it must have been quite interesting for the driver to make the jump across all the lanes at the top of Camden High Street to turn right onto Camden Road in a vehicle that long.

I liked them on the 207 when I lived in Ealing, but then I used to get them along a long straight road - never remember getting a seat though!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The issue with "freeloaders" hasn't gone away, given that the New Bus for London also has three doors and boarding allowed at all of them. And they're getting rid of the "conductors" too; the buses on the 73, which operates with only a driver, have a different type of door on the rear platform, which can't be locked open.

The artics, being all on one level, were good for short hops on very busy bus corridors. You see now on routes like the 25 that buses will leave people standing at bus stops because they are "full" because downstairs is full of standees, despite 20 seats being available upstairs. People complained about the lack of seats on the bendies but, now they have more seats on a decker, they don't use them because it involves climbing a couple of stairs.

They weren't any good on the really long routes- one all the way to Ilford was probably too far- but routes like the 73 and 38 were ideally suited to them.

I see someone else mentioned the X66 Metrocentre shuttle. That's been bendy-operated for many years, with Wright Fusion buses running it before the Citaros, and was ideal for it with a long, straight and flat bus-only road along the bank of the Tyne. They've binned them and gone to Streetlites recently, and the overcrowding on the route is something else.

 

[Be3G]

Wasn’t one of the problems with the bendibus routes the fact that the frequencies weren’t enhanced despite the reduction in seats? It was only with reconversion to double deckers that we got the current very high frequencies – and consequent boost in seats per hour.

Not a problem, as such. Bendy buses had a far greater overall passenger carrying capacity (including standees) than double deckers, which is why the conversion of bendy bus routes back to traditional buses had to be accompanied by an increase in the frequency, else the overall capacity of the routes would have declined.

I have to say I liked the bendies. Standing for a long time wasn't ideal I admit, but I found that they were much more comfortable to stand on than normal buses, with a smoother ride, more space to stand without being in the way of people trying to get on/off or in/out of seats, and plenty of things to hold on to. My busiest local bus route, the 279, suffers from the problem Arctic Troll mentions above where the downstairs gets packed with standees making short hops whilst half of the upstairs seats are empty; for that reason I often wished bendy buses would be introduced on the route, but no doubt Waltham Cross bus station would've posed a problem.

 

[Antman]

The issue with "freeloaders" hasn't gone away, given that the New Bus for London also has three doors and boarding allowed at all of them. And they're getting rid of the "conductors" too; the buses on the 73, which operates with only a driver, have a different type of door on the rear platform, which can't be locked open.

The artics, being all on one level, were good for short hops on very busy bus corridors. You see now on routes like the 25 that buses will leave people standing at bus stops because they are "full" because downstairs is full of standees, despite 20 seats being available upstairs. People complained about the lack of seats on the bendies but, now they have more seats on a decker, they don't use them because it involves climbing a couple of stairs.

They weren't any good on the really long routes- one all the way to Ilford was probably too far- but routes like the 73 and 38 were ideally suited to them.

I see someone else mentioned the X66 Metrocentre shuttle. That's been bendy-operated for many years, with Wright Fusion buses running it before the Citaros, and was ideal for it with a long, straight and flat bus-only road along the bank of the Tyne. They've binned them and gone to Streetlites recently, and the overcrowding on the route is something else.

Well I think removing conductors and open platforms defeats the whole purpose of the LT, although apparently they are at least remaining on route 11.

I'm afraid I disagree about the 38 and 73, I think they were every bit as unsuitable as the 25 was. I think they are best suited to routes outside of Central London, the 108 which is restricted to single deckers would be an ideal candidate.

Most operators that had artics seem to be getting rid of them, presumably the pros are outweighed by the cons, even First's all singing all dancing 'ftr' seems to be falling by the wayside now. The Brighton & Hove ones on their unibus 25 route seem ideally suited as do the ones in Cardiff

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The introduction of bendy buses in Swansea was very expensive and ultimately, a failure, seeing as they will now be withdrawn after less than 10 years. I'm pretty sure that history will judge the idea a huge flop.

Abertawe had "ftr"s didn't it? They seem to work quite well on the Leeds-Bradford 72, though it isn't the quickest due to congestion. If the soon to be ex-Swansea vehicles have any life left in them, I'm sure an increase in frequency would be welcome. Fare dodging doesn't seem to be a problem, due to all buses having a "customer host", in fact there's less chance of scrotes paying for a short hop and staying on for longer than there is on the regular decker services.

 

[carlberry]

The introduction of bendy buses in Swansea was very expensive and ultimately, a failure, seeing as they will now be withdrawn after less than 10 years. I'm pretty sure that history will judge the idea a huge flop.

The Swansea vehicles were a vanity project by First. They seat less than normal bendies, require an extra member of staff and cost more to run (extra costs because of the body style). It's the kind of luxury that TfL would have ordered 600 of if the London Mayor had wanted them!

 

[jon0844]

I used to use the 73 quite a lot, as well as other routes with bendies. I've personally been on buses that clipped the kerb, and those delayed because of poor parking by other motorists.

Never saw any incident involving a cyclist, but saw them often ride down the inside which I always figured as suicidal - yet I assume the driver could see them.

I think they were mostly unsuitable because our roads and the quality of driving is poor. But that doesn't make bendy buses wrong or unsuitable per se.

Fare evasion was crazy though. Sure, people could board and alight quicker, but the 73 was often rammed. Now I know you could board with a paper ticket OR a travelcard loaded on Oyster (as I had) so not everyone had to tap in, but I hardly saw anyone tap in! Goodness knows how many people didn't have a valid ticket, and I never got to find out because I never once saw a ticket check.

I can well believe that for conflict avoidance, TfL was/is selective on where it does checks - and when.

 

[Tetchytyke]

TfL used to regularly do ticket checks on the 73 southbound outside UCL; either they were regular or I was very unlucky, given at the time I was only in London about every 4 months. But yeah, I imagine they are selective where they do them.

Nothing has changed though. The 73 is still operated by buses with three doors, with only the driver doing revenue. Remember that even on two-person NBfLs the "conductor" doesn't do revenue.

The ftr was a flawed concept from the very beginning. The Streetcars were heavier than a Fusion bendy and had fewer seats. And because the off-bus ticketing didn't work they required two-person operation. The Streetcars seem to have found a home for themselves on the Leeds-Bradford 72 service, but that's about it.

The main issue with the artics is garage costs. Most bus companies use depots that have been around since the year dot, and bendies take up more garage space than deckers. Space is money. There's also more moving bits on a bendy to go wrong.

Bendybuses are ideal on routes which involve large crowds going fairly short distances. This is where they worked best in London- routes like the 29, 521 and 507- and away from University shuttles there aren't that many provincial routes where you get that type of passenger flow. It isn't a surprise that provincial operators have struggled to find a use for the bendies. They're not suited everywhere. I think they were suited to London, and they'd work a damn sight better than the mobile pizza ovens Boris ordered as their replacement.

 

[Antman]

TfL used to regularly do ticket checks on the 73 southbound outside UCL; either they were regular or I was very unlucky, given at the time I was only in London about every 4 months. But yeah, I imagine they are selective where they do them.

Nothing has changed though. The 73 is still operated by buses with three doors, with only the driver doing revenue. Remember that even on two-person NBfLs the "conductor" doesn't do revenue.

The ftr was a flawed concept from the very beginning. The Streetcars were heavier than a Fusion bendy and had fewer seats. And because the off-bus ticketing didn't work they required two-person operation. The Streetcars seem to have found a home for themselves on the Leeds-Bradford 72 service, but that's about it.

The main issue with the artics is garage costs. Most bus companies use depots that have been around since the year dot, and bendies take up more garage space than deckers. Space is money. There's also more moving bits on a bendy to go wrong.

Bendybuses are ideal on routes which involve large crowds going fairly short distances. This is where they worked best in London- routes like the 29, 521 and 507- and away from University shuttles there aren't that many provincial routes where you get that type of passenger flow. It isn't a surprise that provincial operators have struggled to find a use for the bendies. They're not suited everywhere. I think they were suited to London, and they'd work a damn sight better than the mobile pizza ovens Boris ordered as their replacement.

The conductor on an LT will at least challenge somebody boarding through the rear doors and not touching in their oyster.

The "mobile pizza ovens" as you call them are not direct replacements for bendybuses and the air ventilation issues really have been blown out of all proportion, no pun intended.

It was significant that when bendys were removed from the 29 the performance of the 24 which parallels the southern end improved considerably and the delays bendys cause to other routes in Central London by blocking bus stops is often overlooked.

I've nothing against the bendys per say and a few on carefully selected routes would have been fine but the way TfL introduced them it was always going to end in tears.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The conductor on an LT will at least challenge somebody boarding through the rear doors and not touching in their oyster.

Not in my experience (I had a paper Travelcard until I moved away last week).

The "mobile pizza ovens" as you call them are not direct replacements for bendybuses and the air ventilation issues really have been blown out of all proportion, no pun intended.

Being a regular user of the 38 and 73 until last week, I can assure you the ventilation problems are as bad as people make out.

The only place bendies struggled was on Oxford Street and, lets be honest, that should have been pedestrianised twenty years ago.

 

[jon0844]

Certainly all my bad experience on bendy buses have been near to Oxford Street. In the case of the 73, it was usually near New Oxford Street.

 

[Antman]

Not in my experience (I had a paper Travelcard until I moved away last week).



Being a regular user of the 38 and 73 until last week, I can assure you the ventilation problems are as bad as people make out.

The only place bendies struggled was on Oxford Street and, lets be honest, that should have been pedestrianised twenty years ago.

You're supposed to board through the front door with a travelcard.

The 38 allocation have had some problems but most LT's are fine.

I agree Oxford Street should have been pedestrianised years ago but bendy buses really aren't suited to central London and would have been far more useful on suburban routes.

 

[jon0844]

I assume you're supposed to board through the front door to show the driver, who presses a button on the machine so there's a cut of the TC fare attributed to the bus.

Because other than that, what's the need? You have a ticket that is valid for travel, just like an Oyster with a travelcard on it. I rarely touched in on a bus when boarding through the middle or rear doors. Perhaps I was supposed to, but I didn't see the need/point.

As a follow on, given how many people don't touch in on the Boris buses, how does TfL accurately measure passenger numbers?

 

[Antman]

I assume you're supposed to board through the front door to show the driver, who presses a button on the machine so there's a cut of the TC fare attributed to the bus.

Because other than that, what's the need? You have a ticket that is valid for travel, just like an Oyster with a travelcard on it. I rarely touched in on a bus when boarding through the middle or rear doors. Perhaps I was supposed to, but I didn't see the need/point.

As a follow on, given how many people don't touch in on the Boris buses, how does TfL accurately measure passenger numbers?

Yes I think that is the reason although the rule isn't enforced, and yes you should touch your oyster in when boarding.

To be honest TfL stats generally show whatever they want them to show and are best taken with a pinch of salt!

 

[Be3G]

I assume you're supposed to board through the front door to show the driver, who presses a button on the machine so there's a cut of the TC fare attributed to the bus.

Indeed. Notably, however, on the two remaining Red Arrow routes (507/521) dual-door boarding is available for holders of all tickets except savers. So these routes must retain whichever method of fare allocation used to be used on the bendies.

 

[Dent]

I agree Oxford Street should have been pedestrianised years ago but bendy buses really aren't suited to central London and would have been far more useful on suburban routes.

Which suburban routes do you suggest?

Suburban routes typically travel further between points of interest, so don't tend to carry a lot of the short-hop passengers a bus with mostly standing space is suitable for.

 

[Tommy1581]

Someone mentioned that bendys went to Brighton from Go North East; these were the four that were used on the X66 Centrelink, the rest of the GNE Mercs went to Optare and the Solars on the X40 went to Alpha Recovery, Cramlington for scrap.

 

[AB93]

The conductor on an LT will at least challenge somebody boarding through the rear doors and not touching in their oyster..

Easily solved by using the middle door instead.

 

[Antman]

Easily solved by using the middle door instead.

Not when there are people alighting and somebody who particularly wants to board by the middle door does rather stand out like a sore thumb.
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Which suburban routes do you suggest?

Suburban routes typically travel further between points of interest, so don't tend to carry a lot of the short-hop passengers a bus with mostly standing space is suitable for.

Off the top of my head, 108,155,170,227,253,254 and 329. They are either restricted to single deckers or carry a lot of short hop passengers and loadings would justify the extra capacity.

 

[fowler9]

One thing I never really understood was the safety aspect. Why were articulated buses viewed as being more dangerous? Surely since they bend there is not much difference between controlling one and a long wheelbase double decker?

 

[the101]

I'm playing devil's advocate here, as in general I think bendibuses did have a place in London's bus scene, but I believe there was a cycling fatality caused by an artic. It was in January 2005 in Oxford Street, almost opposite Bond Street tube, in the late afternoon. I came out of the tube station intending to go to Selfridge's and found the road closed, including the pavements on both sides, and saw a badly-mangled bike and various paramedics,etc, and the Police CSOs shepherding people. A route 73 artic was the only vehicle there, doors wide open but everyone evacuated including the driver. Later, in Selfridge's having a cup of tea, I heard staff say that the cyclist had died: apparently the air ambulance had managed to land nearby but had been sent away again. Two or three years later, I was having a conversation in my shop with someone (Ben Webster) who was at the time the Transport Correspondent of the Times newspaper and the subject of bendibuses came up - he had heard directly from the mouth of Peter Hendy that no cycling fatality had happened as a direct result of artic operation and I told him of my experience. He asked me to furnish all particulars so he could tackle PH on it and, after a bit of research, I was able to and passed the info on. I never heard back, and shortly afterwards he moved from transport to another briefing. I also believe the London Omnibus Traction Society, of which I'm a member, reported the accident in their newsletter as a fatal one, with the bendi in question being impounded by the police. How this will have been recorded in TfL statistics, though, is another matter.

Having said all that, I believe we'll get articulated buses back in London in the next ten years, in electric form, and maybe even in the form of a trolleybus.

I'm not seeing any evidence in your account to suggest the accident was caused by the bus unless you have missed a bit out?

A fair proportion of cyclists in London are a danger to either themselves or others, and then when things do go wrong it is, in the best tradition of the self-righteous, always someone else's fault. It doesn't matter whether you run minibuses or artics, there is always going to be conflict between buses and cyclists in London.

 

[Quakkerillo]

If they like the double-decker bit so much, why not make it an articulated double-decker bus?

 

[ooo]

If they like the double-decker bit so much, why not make it an articulated double-decker bus?

Now that would be able to take a lot of passengers

 

[carlberry]

I assume you're supposed to board through the front door to show the driver, who presses a button on the machine so there's a cut of the TC fare attributed to the bus.

Because other than that, what's the need? You have a ticket that is valid for travel, just like an Oyster with a travelcard on it. I rarely touched in on a bus when boarding through the middle or rear doors. Perhaps I was supposed to, but I didn't see the need/point.

As a follow on, given how many people don't touch in on the Boris buses, how does TfL accurately measure passenger numbers?

According to Tfl, on bendi buses people who didnt touch in were part of the problem of fare evasion, on Boris buses they illustrate how wonderfully flexiable they are!

 

[Stats]

A fair proportion of cyclists in London are a danger to either themselves or others, and then when things do go wrong it is, in the best tradition of the self-righteous, always someone else's fault. It doesn't matter whether you run minibuses or artics, there is always going to be conflict between buses and cyclists in London.

I'd agree with that. As a cycling commuter when the bendies were around, I confirm they were no problem to those that rode responsibly. I always shook my head in disbelief when i saw a cyclist try and squeeze their way between the kerb and a bus or a lorry.
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I'm playing devil's advocate here, as in general I think bendibuses did have a place in London's bus scene, but I believe there was a cycling fatality caused by an artic. It was in January 2005 in Oxford Street, almost opposite Bond Street tube, in the late afternoon.

Hmmmm..... there is not a recorded road death in the vicinty of Bond St station according to this link mapping every road death in GB between 1999 and 2010: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15975720