Bemusing: Kings Cross gateline closed to exit

[An_Engineer]

Just thought I'd share a rather bemusing situation just came across.

I was returning home tonight from Cambridge back to Kings Cross on the cruiser service. After some minor delays we pulled into platform 8 and proceeded to the southern ticket barriers at the end of the platforms, only to find them all closed to exit (as in closed with a red cross).

Not a single gate available to use to exit the station.

The single staff member on that gateline was a bit gormless, and kept repeating that we couldn't use the closed gates, and that we should use one of the open gates and waved people generally over to the gates leading to the main concourse which were obviously also closed to exit as they are normally entry only.

So overall still not a single gate available to exit through (though I guess maybe the ones up at platform 9 and 10 may have been open, we didn't check).

Luckily after a few minutes of a large crowd accumulating and asking how to be let out, one of the staff members on the concourse gateline realised something was up and went over to have a chat with staff member on the southern gateline and quickly got things opened up.

But it was quite bemusing to watch, as otherwise there was no way out.

 

[800001]

Just thought I'd share a rather bemusing situation just came across. I was returning home tonight from Cambridge back to Kings Cross on the cruiser service. After some minor delays we pulled into platform 8 and proceeded to the southern ticket barriers at the end of the platforms.....only to find them all closed to exit (as in closed with a red cross). Not a single gate available to use to exit the station. The single staff member on that gateline was a bit gormless, and kept repeating that we couldn't use the closed gates and that we should use one of the open gates and waved people generally over to the gates leading to the main concourse which were obviously also closed to exit as they are normally entry only. So overall still not a single gate available to exit through (though I guess maybe the ones up at platform 9 and 10 may have been open, we didn't check).

Luckily after a few minutes of a large crowd accumulating and asking how to be let out one of the staff members on the concourse gateline realised something was up and went over to have a chat with staff member on the southern gateline and quickly got things opened up. But it was quite bemusing to watch as otherwise there was no way out.

I would have just pushed through barrier, if they were not providing a safe method or exit for me, then through the barriers I would go.

 

[saismee]

I would have just pushed through barrier, if they were not providing a safe method or exit for me, then through the barriers I would go.

I would've suggested hitting an emergency open plunger depending on the amount of people trapped.

 

[vuzzeho]

I would've suggested hitting an emergency open plunger depending on the amount of people trapped.

The barriers don’t have that, though. Do they? I’ve never noticed it at KX.

 

[saismee]

The barriers don’t have that, though. Do they? I’ve never noticed it at KX.

They do, it is mandatory. Sometimes they are covered up by a yellow panel held in with magnets.

 

[Craig1122]

The TOC's unwillingness to train and recruit station staff to a suitable level of competence is eventually going to kill someone. See also the thread about Fratton. In fact with agency staff they've pretty much checked out of the training and recruitment completely and just seem to rely on luck. A TOC manager said to be once that "their only requirement for recruitment these days seems to be that someone is breathing".

 

[TUC]

In what way is it about training? Surely seeing passengers stuck with no gates open only requires very basic common sense and initiative to know you need to act. If you need training to understand that, you should never have been given the job in the first place.

 

[MotCO]

In what way is it about training? Surely seeing passengers stuck with no gates open only requires very basic common sense and initiative to know you need to act. If you need training to understand that, you should never have been given the job in the first place.

Sadly, common sense seems to be in short supply these days. People are not taught how to think for themselves.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Presumably one of the barrier staff took a conscious decision to set all of the barriers to entry only or closed?

 

[saismee]

Presumably one of the barrier staff took a conscious decision to set all of the barriers to entry only or closed?

It's not too difficult to do with the SCU as you can set the entire array to exit/entry at once, but it requires more buttons to be pressed so it would very much not be by accident.

I have never seen all exit, but all entry is one I have seen and even set at Liverpool Street to prevent people from running or attempting to board an out of service train. Of course, if they walk down a bit there's another array of gates set normally, and there's no safety hazard as people can still exit.

 

[bramling]

In what way is it about training? Surely seeing passengers stuck with no gates open only requires very basic common sense and initiative to know you need to act. If you need training to understand that, you should never have been given the job in the first place.

Unfortunately, I think this over-estimates the competence of some people.

Real example:-
“This lady needs assistance, she’s just been assaulted”
“Salt, what salt?”
“No this lady has been assaulted”
“No I don’t have salt”
“The lady has been assaulted, she needs assistance”
“Salt what she need salt for?”

In the end she had to be taken to a different station.

 

[DarloRich]

In what way is it about training? Surely seeing passengers stuck with no gates open only requires very basic common sense and initiative to know you need to act. If you need training to understand that, you should never have been given the job in the first place.

Sadly, common sense seems to be in short supply these days. People are not taught how to think for themselves.

nor are people paid to think for themselves in these roles. TBH if you were paying me bot all to do a boring job I would be disinclined to think for myself!

Unfortunately, I think this over-estimates the competence of some people.

without coming over all Farage even English competence can be low. It is what you get for contracting out and using those at the bottom of the employment market.

 

[saismee]

nor are people paid to think for themselves in these roles. TBH if you were paying me bot all to do a boring job I would be disinclined to think for myself!


without coming over all Farage even English competence can be low. It is what you get for contracting out and using those at the bottom of the employment market.

National living wage for a boring job where you have to stand for 10, sometimes up to 12, hour shifts, including early starts and late finishes, as well as having to deal with aggressive and sometimes violent people? It's no wonder they hire front the bottom of the employment market - nobody else wants the job!

 

[andy33gmail]

The barriers don’t have that, though. Do they? I’ve never noticed it at KX.

Normally near where the gateline staff stand / should be standing. Typically near the luggage/disabled barrier

Next time I’m splashing out going to London via KGX I’ll take photos. I’m in London on Wednesdays, but usually take the slow train to Liverpool Street

 

[MikeWh]

It's not too difficult to do with the SCU as you can set the entire array to exit/entry at once, but it requires more buttons to be pressed so it would very much not be by accident.

I think all exit is also triggered by a fire alarm activation.

 

[saismee]

I think all exit is also triggered by a fire alarm activation.

It isn't, it just triggers an emergency open and the gates open outwards. They will return to their previous arrangement once reset.

 

[andy33gmail]

National living wage for a boring job where you have to stand for 10, sometimes up to 12, hour shifts, including early starts and late finishes, as well as having to deal with aggressive and sometimes violent people? It's no wonder they hire front the bottom of the employment market - nobody else wants the job!

Yep. Complete lack of common sense from the employer

Pay more, set some targets, maybe commission on obvious fayre dodgers (with some safeguards to stop overreach on technical breeches)

But instead … procedure, rules, minimum pay, minimum staffing…

 

[bramling]

National living wage for a boring job where you have to stand for 10, sometimes up to 12, hour shifts, including early starts and late finishes, as well as having to deal with aggressive and sometimes violent people? It's no wonder they hire front the bottom of the employment market - nobody else wants the job!

This is where the operators need to work to make these roles more attractive. Perhaps the general trend to have staff roving in booking halls has turned out to be a mistake. How about having staff in an office instead, they could even sell tickets whilst they’re at it!

Trying to replicate the likes of banks, or for that matter retail stores, just doesn’t work when you have staff performing railway roles.

 

[Wolfie]

Just thought I'd share a rather bemusing situation just came across.

I was returning home tonight from Cambridge back to Kings Cross on the cruiser service. After some minor delays we pulled into platform 8 and proceeded to the southern ticket barriers at the end of the platforms, only to find them all closed to exit (as in closed with a red cross).

Not a single gate available to use to exit the station.

The single staff member on that gateline was a bit gormless, and kept repeating that we couldn't use the closed gates, and that we should use one of the open gates and waved people generally over to the gates leading to the main concourse which were obviously also closed to exit as they are normally entry only.

So overall still not a single gate available to exit through (though I guess maybe the ones up at platform 9 and 10 may have been open, we didn't check).

Luckily after a few minutes of a large crowd accumulating and asking how to be let out, one of the staff members on the concourse gateline realised something was up and went over to have a chat with staff member on the southern gateline and quickly got things opened up.

But it was quite bemusing to watch, as otherwise there was no way out.

Interesting. I have at least one former colleague who would argue that constituted an unlawful detention/arrest and institute immediate legal action.

 

[MikeWh]

It isn't, it just triggers an emergency open and the gates open outwards. They will return to their previous arrangement once reset.

The problem I had when travelling from London Bridge one evening a few years ago was it was impossible to touch in to the NR station as everything was open and all readers set to exit. There may have been a fire alarm activation earlier, but by the time I was there the station was very much open as usual. I managed to get TfL to audit card usage that night and regularise all the affected Oyster cards.

 

[3141]

The TOC's unwillingness to train and recruit station staff to a suitable level of competence is eventually going to kill someone. See also the thread about Fratton. In fact with agency staff they've pretty much checked out of the training and recruitment completely and just seem to rely on luck. A TOC manager said to be once that "their only requirement for recruitment these days seems to be that someone is breathing".

Isn't KIngs Cross one of the stations managed by Network Rail? If so, is it they or one of the TOCs that use it responsible for station staff?

 

[bramling]

Isn't KIngs Cross one of the stations managed by Network Rail? If so, is it they or one of the TOCs that use it responsible for station staff?

I think LNER man the main gateline, GTR the suburban one, and NR provide the security staff.

One of the depressing aspects of privatisation, though not entirely down to that, is the way station staffing has become very fragmented and watered down. There seems to be very low levels of supervision nowadays. The bigger stations often seem worse.

 

[saismee]

This is where the operators need to work to make these roles more attractive. Perhaps the general trend to have staff roving in booking halls has turned out to be a mistake. How about having staff in an office instead, they could even sell tickets whilst they’re at it!

Trying to replicate the likes of banks, or for that matter retail stores, just doesn’t work when you have staff performing railway roles.

Yep. Complete lack of common sense from the employer

Pay more, set some targets, maybe commission on obvious fayre dodgers (with some safeguards to stop overreach on technical breeches)

But instead … procedure, rules, minimum pay, minimum staffing…

At my station we spend a lot of time on our own at the barriers. We have to help customers use the TVMs but we don't get a commission on anything we sell. The ticket office is quite a journey and I dont think our managers or customers would appreciate being sent on a long walk when they just want to buy a ticket!

I think LNER man the main gateline, GTR the suburban one, and NR provide the security staff.

One of the depressing aspects of privatisation, though not entirely down to that, is the way station staffing has become very fragmented and watered down. There seems to be very low levels of supervision nowadays. The bigger stations often seem worse.

Agency staff have a tendency to show up late, leave early, and take outrageous breaks. Us permanent staff will be warned if we take more than a 45 minute break on a 10 hour shift. Agency show up for 7 hours and take two generous hour-long breaks. This trend has started to catch on with some of my colleagues and being constantly left alone for toilet/smoke/stand around on their phone breaks is very frustrating!! My station isn't small or quiet but we are already understaffed and the company cannot afford to lose any of us.

 

[Carntyne]

0-100mph there...

Clearly a simple human error, not the end of the world.

Interesting. I have at least one former colleague who would argue that constituted an unlawful detention/arrest and institute immediate legal action.

 

[andy33gmail]

0-100mph there...

Clearly a simple human error, not the end of the world.

Interesting. I have at least one former colleague who would argue that constituted an unlawful detention/arrest and institute immediate legal action.

Except it isn’t, because you could hit the e-release, climb or force through the barriers, freely use your phone to access emergency services, or jump on a departing train

All of which would be options available during a kidnapping or unlawful arrest. The fact they seem … disproportionate … probably evidences that the OP was not actually kidnapped

 

[frankmoh]

I think LNER man the main gateline, GTR the suburban one, and NR provide the security staff.

One of the depressing aspects of privatisation, though not entirely down to that, is the way station staffing has become very fragmented and watered down. There seems to be very low levels of supervision nowadays. The bigger stations often seem worse.

To me at least, it always seemed like the medium-sized stations had the right amount of staff. Something like Lewisham or Purley, compared to a terminus or even worse a Network Rail station.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I think all exit is also triggered by a fire alarm activation.

Gates would all open during a fire alarm activation, as one method of evacuation is by train

 

[Fokx]

Except it isn’t, because you could hit the e-release, climb or force through the barriers, freely use your phone to access emergency services, or jump on a departing train

All of which would be options available during a kidnapping or unlawful arrest. The fact they seem … disproportionate … probably evidences that the OP was not actually kidnapped

Or even simpler you simply point out that ALL of the gates are incorrectly set to entrance only.

 

[Dr Hoo]

This is where the operators need to work to make these roles more attractive. Perhaps the general trend to have staff roving in booking halls has turned out to be a mistake. How about having staff in an office instead, they could even sell tickets whilst they’re at it!

Trying to replicate the likes of banks, or for that matter retail stores, just doesn’t work when you have staff performing railway roles.

Is the idea of ‘roving staff’ still a thing? (I’m obviously not referring to janitorial and security posts.) I know that when TVMs were rolled out, even in BR days, there was an effort to ‘teach a (wo)man to fish’ and get people out of long queues if they had simple needs that could readily be fulfilled by a machine. With most people these days seemingly having electronic tickets on their phones I’m surprised that there’s much justification for them.

 

[apbj]

National living wage for a boring job where you have to stand for 10, sometimes up to 12, hour shifts, including early starts and late finishes, as well as having to deal with aggressive and sometimes violent people? It's no wonder they hire front the bottom of the employment market - nobody else wants the job!

I agree. Although you have inadvertently made the case for removing these roles altogether; if the railway can't afford sensible people there's little benefit in having lots of less useful ones hanging around. As demonstrated in the OP, they wouldn't be much help in an actual emergency. The Elizabeth line is particularly bad for this; you could remove 50% of its many gateline and platform staff overnight and it would make no difference whatsoever to customer service or safe operations. Spend the money better!