Belper-Sheffield

[JohnGeddes]

From 19/5 EMT are apparently stopping a Derby-Chesterfield-Sheffield train each morning at Belper, and stopping one Sheffield-Chesterfield-Derby at Belper in the evening.

There seems no difference in walkup fares whether direct Belper-Chesterfield services or doubling back: Belper-Derby-(Belper)-Chesterfield.

Setting aside logical or moral questions - should there be lower not-via-Derby fares available?

 

[telstarbox]

The evening service also continues to London St Pancras.

Belper is 'clustered' with Derby for fares purposes which is why the fares are the same.

 

[Wyvern]

With there being only one train back most people wouldnt want to bother, particularly as the morning train is full fare so people would tend to travel later even if via Derby.

There always has been the morning train (a sort of parliamentary?) but this is the result of campaigning by the Friends of the Derwent Valley Line and I'm not sure what benefit it has.

Might be different if they offered day trips to Meadowhall.

 

[Western Lord]

Belper has a population of just over 20,000, not disimilar to Retford, the abysmal main line service is something of a joke.

 

[telstarbox]

With there being only one train back most people wouldnt want to bother, particularly as the morning train is full fare so people would tend to travel later even if via Derby.

There always has been the morning train (a sort of parliamentary?) but this is the result of campaigning by the Friends of the Derwent Valley Line and I'm not sure what benefit it has.

Might be different if they offered day trips to Meadowhall.

Meadowhall has loads of free parking though, unlike Sheffield city centre.

 

[gordonthemoron]

meadowhall has shops though, unlike sheffield city centre.

hth

 

[LowLevel]

There's quite a lot of northbound traffic as it is from Belper throughout the day even with the double back at Derby - I think as they're pretty well timed peak time services they will be rather popular actually.

 

[Qwerty133]

From 19/5 EMT are apparently stopping a Derby-Chesterfield-Sheffield train each morning at Belper, and stopping one Sheffield-Chesterfield-Derby at Belper in the evening.

There seems no difference in walkup fares whether direct Belper-Chesterfield services or doubling back: Belper-Derby-(Belper)-Chesterfield.

Setting aside logical or moral questions - should there be lower not-via-Derby fares available?

They've launched cheaper 'advance singles', from £11 return to Chesterfield and £12 to Sheffield according to posters at another Derwent valley line station.

 

[yorkie]

They've launched cheaper 'advance singles', from £11 return to Chesterfield and £12 to Sheffield according to posters at another Derwent valley line station.

Poor value.

A flexible Off Peak Day Return (CDR) to Chesterfield is 'only' £10.90. That's still poor value, but not as abysmal value as the Advance fares.

 

[Mark62]

I live in Belper and the morning train to Sheffield has ran for many years. However it has never been balanced with a return working in the evening. To drive between the two at peak times is a nightmare. I have to work in Sheffield from time to time so this service is a welcome addition. I caught the 17.38 back last night and five other passengers alighted at belper. An advance ticket on the 7.29 to Sheffield is £5 which is a bargain.
I have no idea why EMT don't stop their London semi fasts at belper every two hours. It would open up the East Midlands for residents without tiresome changes at Derby.
By the way Belper is where the industrial revolution started, well some would say it was down the road in Cromford. But the industrialised world all started in this small, sleepy, civilised and beautiful part of England. One of the Countries best kept secrets.

 

[ExRes]

Certainly, when I started with MML in late 2000, the first St Pancras-Sheffield 170 and then 222 always stopped at Belper, that was still the case in 2010 so I assume it still remains so

 

[Qwerty133]

Certainly, when I started with MML in late 2000, the first St Pancras-Sheffield 170 and then 222 always stopped at Belper, that was still the case in 2010 so I assume it still remains so

No, the first ex st pancras service no longer calls at belper, instead a service which starts at Derby calls. Is the first service from London now later?

 

[RichmondCommu]

With there being only one train back most people wouldnt want to bother, particularly as the morning train is full fare so people would tend to travel later even if via Derby.

There always has been the morning train (a sort of parliamentary?) but this is the result of campaigning by the Friends of the Derwent Valley Line and I'm not sure what benefit it has.

Might be different if they offered day trips to Meadowhall.

However, it will help students who attend Chesterfield College, and who if they have any sense will now start buying student railcards!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have no idea why EMT don't stop their London semi fasts at belper every two hours. It would open up the East Midlands for residents without tiresome changes at Derby.

I concur. However I'm not sure that there is sufficient capacity for additional stops at Belper but I have no doubt that the demand is there.

 

[Mark62]

I think you may find that the early morning Belper to Sheffield train was running before privatisation. I do believe its been running for over 30 years. But I can't be certain. Sometimes the 7.29 it is an HST.
The EMT Sheffield to Derby trains have extra running time compared to cross country. The 30 minute timing for the 17.38 is generous. A non stop cross country will pass Belper in 20 mins. I have been on some cross country trains between Sheffield and Derby that really hammered the line and reached Derby in 25 mins easy. Many of our long distance have way too much running time. On Thursday my cross country Derby to Sheffield arrived in Derby 14 mins early. Its a common occurrence for them to stand in Derby for 15 mins. And they often arrive in Sheffield early. EMT seem to get much more generous allowances between the two cities.
But returning to the early morning Belper to Sheffield, it always seemed to be an anomalous service. As a young lad I used to read timetables a lot. My was a train driver on the old Great Central route between Manchester as far as Rugby. So I caught my interest on trains from his stories as a boy. But point to point timings have always interested me. I seem to remember that morning Belper service running in the mid 70s.

 

[DDB]

I believe I heard/read somewhere that when the first franchise was let Belper got assurances that the then current peaktime commuter services to Sheffield (one service Belper-Sheffield in the morning and one service Sheffield-Belper return in the afternoon) would be kept. However what got put in the specification by mistake was one service a day not one service each way a day. However this might be urban myth.

What is true is that the morning Belper-Sheffield service has been there for some time but the return Sheffield-Belper service is new for this timetable change.

If you look at the timetable it makes a hell of a difference. The direct trains take half an hour to/from Sheffield while via Derby doubles this to an hour from having to travel the wrong direction for 10mins and then change.

The local friends group have been campaigning for this for some years. On thier website you can download their arguments/research for it which they've submitted to the relevant authorities.
Direct link to the document

It is not clear that their campaign has directly led to this service as they've only just submitted it as their aim is to get into the next franchise specification. On the other hand EMT have been being lobbied about it for some time and granted permission for surveys to be conducted on their trains so did know about it.

Although this new service is not yet a franchise commitment it presumably demonstrates there is no operational impediment in terms of driver/train manager training or rolling stock with adding this stop.

I believe the reluctance to introduce the stop was due to it being a London bound train and the authorities worrying it would cause every tiny village to demand their own direct train to London when in fact it is aimed at developing the regional commuter market from Belper and catchment to Chesterfield and Sheffield.

However because these are London services they are generally most busy in the section between London and Leicester, less busy Leicester to Derby and least busy in the Derby to Sheffield section so there should be plenty of seats available. If the cross-country services stopped instead I suspect that wouldn't be the case.

DDB

 

[Qwerty133]

However because these are London services they are generally most busy in the section between London and Leicester, less busy Leicester to Derby and least busy in the Derby to Sheffield section so there should be plenty of seats available. If the cross-country services stopped instead I suspect that wouldn't be the case.

DDB

Not sure that this is true, they are probably as busy south of Derby as south of Leicester, but yes Derby to Sheffield they are less busy. (Probably because of 4TPH SHF-DBY 2TPH DBY-LEI and 4TPH LEI-STP, so the passengers are split onto more services south of Leicester.)