Belle Vue Coaches

[northwichcat]

There are two changes to former Little Gem routes affecting Belle Vue from Sunday, when the emergency contracts end.

280 Altrincham - Mossbrow - Partington - Carrington - Sale

Route changed to run between Partington and Altrincham only with buses no longer running via Warburton. Buses are also rerouted in Bowdon to run via The Downs, Delamer Road, Cavendish Road, The Firs and Church Brow/Richmond Road. Replaced by rerouted bus Cat5 for journeys between Warburton, Partington and Sale

This will mean the route requires 1 vehicle, instead of 2 and will avoid the low bridge. Belle Vue will continue to operate the service.

288 Altrincham - Hale - Hale Barns - Manchester Airport

Route withdrawn and replaced by extended bus X5.

Bus service changes

See upcoming changes to bus services in Greater Manchester

tfgm.com

The mentioned Cat5 and X5 routes will continue to be operated by Warrington's Own Buses.

In fleet news the former Little Gem Fiat minibuses have left the fleet. Two Solo SRs have joined - YJ64 DWC and YJ16 DXK. These are currently being used on the 280. They continue to have a large number of deckers, mainly used for school services but also appearing on service work.

There's also been speculation on whether they are running the 391 and 392 services, or whether they are being run by Little Gem's former parent company (Go Goodwins).

PC0004217/261 New

BELLE VUE (MANCHESTER) LTD

391 (392)

Mersey Square, Stockport

Macclesfield Bus Station

• Date received 14 Jul 2023
• Effective date 01 Aug 2023

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/613288/

And

PC0004217/260 New

BELLE VUE (MANCHESTER) LTD

393

Wellington Road South, Stockport

Queen Victoria Street, Macclesfiel

• Date received 14 Jul 2023
• Effective date 01 Aug 2023

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/613281/

 

[Djb1]

Unless I’m mistaken the 280 will still go under the low bridge. But the solos are short enough to fit (which I hadn’t realised till this week)

 

[SeanM1997]

It'll be interesting what the 393 is - as its commercially operated whilst the 391/392 each have subsidies. Hopefully it will enhance connectivity in Cheshire East and be successful

 

[northwichcat]

Unless I’m mistaken the 280 will still go under the low bridge. But the solos are short enough to fit (which I hadn’t realised till this week)

I thought the problem low bridge was on the Altrincham-Dunham Massey-Warbuton part of the Cat5 under the Bridgwater Canal, that was removed from the Cat5 because new height restriction signage indicated the Enviro MMCs were too tall, even though old signage indicated they were fine.

 

[Djb1]

I thought the problem low bridge was on the Altrincham-Dunham Massey-Warbuton part of the Cat5 under the Bridgwater Canal, that was removed from the Cat5 because new height restriction signage indicated the Enviro MMCs were too tall, even though old signage indicated they were fine.

Yes, that’s correct. The new signage is 9ft, however it appears the solos in use are just under that height.

The revised 280 route still goes under the bridge.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2023 ==

It'll be interesting what the 393 is - as its commercially operated whilst the 391/392 each have subsidies. Hopefully it will enhance connectivity in Cheshire East and be successful

Given it has the start point at wellington road south, perhaps it’s an in service positioning journey direct via a6/a523?

 

[northwichcat]

The new signage is 9ft, however it appears the solos in use are just under that height.

Based on one of their tweets it sounds like the reason the Fiat buses went was reliability issues.

@BelleVue_Buses
Jul 12, 2023
Hi Stuart, Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. We have had reliability issues with the minibuses so unfortunately double deckers are all we have spare. We have purchased a single decker bus that should be in service soon - which is also compliant with the route.

https://twitter.com/BelleVue_Buses/status/1679176359225049122

 

[mangad]

Starting the 393 on a Tuesday seems unusual.

I guess too that the vehicles used from the 1st may give an indicator of what has been going on with the 391/392 recently - whether they've been run by Goodwins, or whether they've been run by Belle Vue on behalf of Goodwins.
---

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2023 ==

Cheshire East Council's Bus Service Changes page has now been updated with the following:

1 August 2023

• 391, 392, 393 Belle Vue: Belle Vue have acquired the assets of Goodwins and have applied to register the 391, 392, 393 bus service on their own license.

 

[323235]

Yes, that’s correct. The new signage is 9ft, however it appears the solos in use are just under that height.

The revised 280 route still goes under the bridge.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2023 ==


Given it has the start point at wellington road south, perhaps it’s an in service positioning journey direct via a6/a523?

Correct it’s just a 0635 Stockport - Macclesfield direct and 1750 Saturday only Macclesfield - Stockport direct.

 

[daodao]

Starting the 393 on a Tuesday seems unusual.

I guess too that the vehicles used from the 1st may give an indicator of what has been going on with the 391/392 recently - whether they've been run by Goodwins, or whether they've been run by Belle Vue on behalf of Goodwins.
---

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2023 ==

Cheshire East Council's Bus Service Changes page has now been updated with the following: "Belle Vue have acquired the assets of Goodwins and have applied to register the 391, 392, 393 bus service on their own license."

The new timetable for routes 391/2/3 is available at https://tfgm.com/public-transport/bus/routes/392-macclesfield

It is clear that route 393 is primarily positioning journeys being run in service, presumably as Belle Vue is based in Stockport.

 

[317 forever]

I saw a Belle Vue 392 yesterday. It was evidently the same 23-reg minibus as Maynes/Goodwins had run before, but with Belle Vut on the back. It seems that the operation has transferred or even been sold from Go Goodwins to Belle Vue.

 

[northwichcat]

I saw a Belle Vue 392 yesterday. It was evidently the same 23-reg minibus as Maynes/Goodwins had run before, but with Belle Vut on the back. It seems that the operation has transferred or even been sold from Go Goodwins to Belle Vue.

Read post 7. The council has confirmed that they've purchased assets from Go Goodwins and transferred the route to their own operating licence.

 

[317 forever]

Read post 7. The council has confirmed that they've purchased assets from Go Goodwins and transferred the route to their own operating licence.

I still provided up to date information about the operation, even if I did not have post 7 in mind when I typed mine.

 

[northwichcat]

The 23 reg vehicles that passed from Go Goodwins seem to have disappeared from the fleet list on bustimes.org.

Fleet list – Belle Vue Coaches – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

If that's correct I think it leaves them with just 2 single decker buses with destination displays (other than the TfGM Yellow school buses). One of the Yutongs has a destination display, but obviously that's a coach. BO55 VUE and RX72 TTJ are showing as having tracked on bus services, but based on Flickr photos I don't think either have destination displays. They have some full size coaches with destination displays but some of those have been used for Flixbus work.

 

[Djb1]

The 23 reg vehicles that passed from Go Goodwins seem to have disappeared from the fleet list on bustimes.org.

Fleet list – Belle Vue Coaches – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

If that's correct I think it leaves them with just 2 single decker buses with destination displays (other than the TfGM Yellow school buses). One of the Yutongs has a destination display, but obviously that's a coach. BO55 VUE and RX72 TTJ are showing as having tracked on bus services, but based on Flickr photos I don't think either have destination displays. They have some full size coaches with destination displays but some of those have been used for Flixbus work.

I saw BO55 VUE on the 391/2/3 several days this past week with a paper display.

 

[ChrisC]

I don’t know the area at all, but reading this thread makes me think that this was connected to my experience with the 280 a couple of weeks ago.

I was staying in Manchester for a few days and decided to visit Dunham Massey Hall and Grounds by bus. I used the tfgm journey planner and got myself to Altrincham Interchange with 15 minutes to spare before the 280 bus at 1027. The information on the screen was that it was not expected until 1050. After sitting there for 45 minute, just after 1050 the 280 arrived and it was a fairly large Belle Vue coach. A very grumpy driver told me that he isn‘t going near Dunham Massey because he can’t get through. I asked him how I could get to Dunham Massey and he didn't really give me answer. I told him that I had been waiting for 45 minutes and this could have been avoided if there had been a notice at the bus stop informing passengers that there are no buses to Dunham Massey. I didn’t get any more than a grunt in reply. There were 2 other people waiting who also wanted to get to Dunham Massey. In the end I got myself by bus and tram to East Didsbury and went out by train to Styal and visited Quarry Bank instead.

 

[northwichcat]

I don’t know the area at all, but reading this thread makes me think that this was connected to my experience with the 280 a couple of weeks ago.

I was staying in Manchester for a few days and decided to visit Dunham Massey Hall and Grounds by bus. I used the tfgm journey planner and got myself to Altrincham Interchange with 15 minutes to spare before the 280 bus at 1027. The information on the screen was that it was not expected until 1050. After sitting there for 45 minute, just after 1050 the 280 arrived and it was a fairly large Belle Vue coach. A very grumpy driver told me that he isn‘t going near Dunham Massey because he can’t get through. I asked him how I could get to Dunham Massey and he didn't really give me answer. I told him that I had been waiting for 45 minutes and this could have been avoided if there had been a notice at the bus stop informing passengers that there are no buses to Dunham Massey. I didn’t get any more than a grunt in reply. There were 2 other people waiting who also wanted to get to Dunham Massey. In the end I got myself by bus and tram to East Didsbury and went out by train to Styal and visited Quarry Bank instead.

Possibly 7th September? The tracking for that day shows a Solo SR running the early 280s, then being replaced by a Yutong starting from the 09:27 Altrincham to Partington.

Not all the journeys tracked correctly and some aren't still showing times but this one seems to show the route taken:

Vehicles – 280 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

What he could have told you is that the Barry Rise stop (near the A56 junction) is 1 mile from the National Trust site. There is a town called Dunham Massey, as well as the National Trust estate, which is further from the A56 than the National Trust site, which may have caused some confusion.

If you had know and were willing to walk from Barry Rise/A56 you could have also caught the X5 towards Warrington at 10:22.

 

[ChrisC]

Possibly 7th September? The tracking for that day shows a Solo SR running the early 280s, then being replaced by a Yutong starting from the 09:27 Altrincham to Partington.

Not all the journeys tracked correctly and some aren't still showing times but this one seems to show the route taken:

Vehicles – 280 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

What he could have told you is that the Barry Rise/A56 stop is 1 mile from the National Trust site. There is a town called Dunham Massey, as well as the National Trust estate, which is further from the A56 than the National Trust site, which may have caused some confusion.

If you had know and were willing to walk from Barry Rise/A56 you could have also caught the X5 towards Warrington at 10:22.

I’ve just checked and it was 7th September. He was most unhelpful and gave me no advice when I asked him if there was any other way of getting there. I quite like walking, and having now looked at the map I could have walked from Barry Rise. Again just looking at the map I could also have caught the bus to the Stamford Arms and walked up through Little Bollington or even taken a walk by the canal as part of my day. I could even have walked the whole way along the canal from Altrincham but it was an extremely hot day. The unexpected surprise of the bus not going there, and the grumpy unhelpful driver, somewhat put me off at the time looking for alternative ways of getting there. Somewhere to visit in the future perhaps. I had a good afternoon walking around Styal and Quarry Bank so wasn‘t too disappointed in the end. It was just a wasted morning.

 

[northwichcat]

The unexpected surprise of the bus not going there, and the grumpy unhelpful driver, somewhat put me off at the time looking for alternative ways of getting there. Somewhere to visit in the future perhaps.

I wouldn't have felt like paying a bus driver who had turned up late and told me the bus wasn't going to my stop either.

I also don't get why Belle Vue didn't cancel one return working and swapped the Yutong for either the other Solo SR or the Iveco that were out on the 391/392 that day. The 280 is tendered by TfGM with a requirement to have a low roof vehicle so it can serve Dunham Massey. While bus failures happen, just putting any available vehicle out even though it can't pass under the canal bridge, and then leaving it there all day isn't acceptable.

I had a good afternoon walking around Styal and Quarry Bank so wasn‘t too disappointed in the end. It was just a wasted morning.

You probably wouldn't realise but you could have caught the 88 bus from Altrincham to Wilmslow and walked around 1.7 miles through The Carrs and the lower part of the National Trust site to reach Quarry Bank Mill. The walking route from Wilmslow to Quarry Bank is around 3/4 mile shorter than the driving route.

 

[northwichcat]

So the merry-go-round of vehicles on the 391/392 continues. Replacing the Ivecos are 2 x Enviros that have arrived from Faresaver - YX60 EOR and PX12 COJ. They are the 10.8m variety so do at least provide more capacity.

 

[Tim33160]

I’ve just checked and it was 7th September. He was most unhelpful and gave me no advice when I asked him if there was any other way of getting there. I quite like walking, and having now looked at the map I could have walked from Barry Rise. Again just looking at the map I could also have caught the bus to the Stamford Arms and walked up through Little Bollington or even taken a walk by the canal as part of my day. I could even have walked the whole way along the canal from Altrincham but it was an extremely hot day. The unexpected surprise of the bus not going there, and the grumpy unhelpful driver, somewhat put me off at the time looking for alternative ways of getting there. Somewhere to visit in the future perhaps. I had a good afternoon walking around Styal and Quarry Bank so wasn‘t too disappointed in the end. It was just a wasted morning.

See messages 5 and 6 above
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/belle-vue-coaches.251883/#post-6325279

The canal bridge at Dunham has been a long saga resulting from Trafford BC changing the road signs from triangular warning signs to circular prohibition signs. TfGM took nearly two years to get a company to run this route with suitable buses, then the company folded (Little Gem) and then the buses (Fiat Ducato mini buses) weren't reliable and were subsequently sold.
Belle Vue don't seem to have reliable replacements (have been using Solos of late).
Out-sized buses tend to travel a diversion route along A56 through Cheshire to Lymm and back to Partington - some 5 miles
As a TfGM supported route, presumably there has been penalties imposed on lack of service.

Alternatives of Warrington X5 - which replaced the previous 287 / 288 take you to Barry Rise - and also to Stamford Arms to walk into the park from the River Bollin side. Hopefully a complaint has been raised with TfGM who run the bus interchange at Altrincham and ultimately pay for the bus route

 

[Djb1]

Hopefully the saga will end with the introduction of the bee network. But surely the solution in the interim would be to see if the contract can be transferred to arriva. They run strata’s (which will fit under the bridge) from the wythenshawe depot.

This would hopefully give (no disrespect to belle vue) more chance of resilience on the route due to a pool of suitable vehicles, a depot close by, and other suitable vehicles in nw group fleet.

 

[northwichcat]

Hopefully the saga will end with the introduction of the bee network. But surely the solution in the interim would be to see if the contract can be transferred to arriva. They run strata’s (which will fit under the bridge) from the wythenshawe depot.

This would hopefully give (no disrespect to belle vue) more chance of resilience on the route due to a pool of suitable vehicles, a depot close by, and other suitable vehicles in nw group fleet.

The downside of contracting individual routes is it means whatever else Arriva run and where their depot is irrelevant. TfGM would look at all the bids for the route and in most cases would pick the cheapest bid that meets all the requirements. We don't even know if Arriva wanted the route. While they may normally have a spare Strata sat at Wythenshawe depot, they also need drivers for the route which aren't as easy to source.

 

[daodao]

The downside of contracting individual routes is it means whatever else Arriva run and where their depot is irrelevant. TfGM would look at all the bids for the route and in most cases would pick the cheapest bid that meets all the requirements. We don't even know if Arriva wanted the route. While they may normally have a spare Strata sat at Wythenshawe depot, they also need drivers for the route which aren't as easy to source.

Arriva run route 280 on Sundays using a Strata, as a tendered service, but only as far as Dunham Town (east of the low bridge). The former North West Road Car company had buses with a specially curved low roof built for the service under the canal bridge at Dunham.

 

[northwichcat]

Arriva run route 280 on Sundays using a Strata, as a tendered service, but only as far as Dunham Town (east of the low bridge).

The Sunday contract is for a limited service on the 280, 282, 284 and 285 routes with a PVR of 1. Arriva having that Sunday contract doesn't automatically mean they want or have resource to run the Mon-Sat service.

The former North West Road Car company had buses with a specially curved low roof built for the service under the canal bridge at Dunham.

Standard Enviro 200 MMCs passed under the bridge until the signage was changed and they were over the restriction. No special design of bus required today, but the types that can be used are restricted by the new signgage.

 

[northwichcat]

So the merry-go-round of vehicles on the 391/392 continues. Replacing the Ivecos are 2 x Enviros that have arrived from Faresaver - YX60 EOR and PX12 COJ. They are the 10.8m variety so do at least provide more capacity.

It seems the Ivecos have re-entered service, alongside the cascaded Enviros. So now that have plenty of vehicles to use on public bus services. But....

Last Saturday:

Service 391/392: Unfortunately the following trips will not be operating due to driver sickness: 391 08:50 Stockport to Macclesfield 392 10:25 Macclesfield to Stockport 392 13:20 Stockport to Macclesfield 391 14:50 Macclesfield to Stockport

https://twitter.com/BelleVue_Buses/status/1718196999923679608

And today:

Service 391/392: Unfortunately the following trips will not be operating due to driver sickness: 391 08:50 Stockport to Macclesfield 392 10:25 Macclesfield to Stockport 392 13:20 Stockport to Macclesfield 391 14:50 Macclesfield to Stockport

https://twitter.com/BelleVue_Buses/status/1720728512313626915

Maybe they've got a part time driver who only works Saturdays, who they can't find cover for?

 

[Flange Squeal]

The pair of Ivecos are now being advertised by Odyssey Coach Sales

2023 (23) Iveco Daily 70C21 Ilesbus I-City Max 31 Seat PSVAR Compliant Single Deck Bus | Odyssey Coach Sales

2023 (23) Iveco Daily 70C21 Ilesbus I-City Max 31 Seat PSVAR Compliant Single Deck Bus DOFR: 01.03.2023 MOT: 29.04.2024 Mileage: 26704 kms (17.10.2023) Euro 6 Hi-Matic 8 Speed Automated Gearbox 31 High Back Seats (or 29 + 1 W/Chair) 3 Point Seat Belts Leather Piping & Headrest Inserts USB...

odysseycoachsales.co.uk

2023 (23) Iveco Daily 70C21 Ilesbus I-City Max 31 Seat PSVAR Compliant Single Deck Bus

• DOFR: 01.03.2023
• MOT: 29.04.2024
• Mileage: 26704 kms (17.10.2023)
• Euro 6
• Hi-Matic 8 Speed Automated Gearbox
• 31 High Back Seats (or 29 + 1 W/Chair)
• 3 Point Seat Belts
• Leather Piping & Headrest Inserts
• USB Connectors
• Crew Seat
• PSVAR Compliant
• Space for 1 Wheelchair
• Manual Fold Out Wheelchair Ramp
• LED Destination Displays to Front, Side, and Rear
• Wood Effect Flooring
• Air Conditioned
• Multi Media System
• Wired for CCTV
• Reverse Camera
• Multi Function Steering Wheel
• Retarder
• Digital Tachograph
• AEBS
• LDW
• Small Luggage Compartment to Rear
• Euroliner Wheel Trims
• Choice of 2 Available
• £132,950 + VAT

Please note that advertised mileage is correct at time of viewing (date shown in brackets above), however as this vehicle is still in daily use mileage should only be used as an indication.

YEAR:	2023
MAKE:	Iveco
MODEL:	Daily 70C21
BODY MAKE:	Ilesbus
BODY MODEL:	I-City Max
VEHICLE TYPE:	Single Deck Bus
SEATING CAPACITY:	31
SEAT BELTS:	3 Point Belts
PSVAR COMPLIANT:	Yes
WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE:	Yes
TRANSMISSION:	8 Speed Hi-Matic Automated
EMISSIONS CATEGORY:	Euro 6
MILEAGE:	26704 kms
PRICE:	£132,950

 

[northwichcat]

One of the ex-Little Gem Fiats has reappeared on the 391/392/393

 

[Bungle965]

One of the ex-Little Gem Fiats has reappeared on the 391/392/393

Back onto the 280 now, kitted out with timetable racks which is very refreshing to see.
Had a healthy load (which admittedly isn't massive on the Fiat) on the 1740 out of Altrincham.

Most notably they appear to have invested in some mini Ticketer machines which are capable of accepting card payments, I don't recall this existing on my last trip with them.

 

[northwichcat]

Most notably they appear to have invested in some mini Ticketer machines which are capable of accepting card payments, I don't recall this existing on my last trip with them.

I haven't seen any of their vehicles recently. However, I notice a Flickr photo of one of their Solos shows it now had a windscreen sticker saying "Contactless payments accepted".

Belle Vue YJ16DXK

Belle Vue YJ16DXK 506 seen in Altrincham Interchange on service 280 Partington Circular

www.flickr.com

Little Gem did not accept contactless payments on any of their vehicles, including the Fiats.

 

[Bungle965]

Little Gem did not accept contactless payments on any of their vehicles, including the Fiats.

Something that was irritating to say the least, I once got caught out by this and the driver did let me on but asked me to buy a ticket on the app instead.

Better than Stotts in the fact that they at least had an app to purchase a ticket on!