Belgium rails - any ideas, thoughts?

[Techniquest]

Sounds funky, I'll need to view it in Chrome possibly to get a translation for that page but what I saw and could understand made it sound good.

Next on my shopping list come payday will be a Belgian stock book I think Any recommendations?

 

[RichmondCommu]

No thanks regarding that overnight move, I'd rather stay in a hotel despite the extra cost. Rubbish night's sleeping on Scottish and FGW sleepers, as well as rancid all-nighters around Manchester, Leeds, York, London and plenty of other places around the UK were difficult enough to tolerate when I was younger, however I've been spoilt by the luxury of having a comfortable bed, a shower, tea/coffee facilities and a TV, as well as security, in places like Travelodge.

You should consider Youth Hostels, especially on the continent where they are very good value and much cheaper than hotels. Not only that but they are very secure, many rooms have en-suite showers and you have the opportunity to meet people. My teenage twins are planning something similar next summer after their A levels.

 

[atillathehunn]

Whilst I can thoroughly recommend Maastricht for almost everything else, I can't say that it often provides much by way of railway interest. I can get you the times for the very little freight that passes this way if you want. Aside from that it's 189s on the stopping train to Liege, and the 8600s on the Amsterdam trains, and an assortment of EMUs on the stoptrein to Roermond. Even most of the freight is in the hands of 66s.

The train out to Eupen is usually pretty empty arriving in Liege towards Brussels/Oostende. Generally fills up in Liege for the run further into Belgium.

It's a shame they terminate the other express at Vise. It used to run through to Maastricht providing an express to Brussels. Now relpaced with a two car EMU to Liege which is, without fail, full and standing.

 

[radamfi]

I'm just back from Germany/Belgium and a bit of the Netherlands and this ticket which I used is quite useful if you want to see a wide variety of stock in a short time:

http://www.avv.de/fileadmin/sites/avv/download_FTP/Tarif_Ticket_Flyer/euregioticket.pdf

I've had the EU Regio ticket a few times and there are some nice bus routes that can be used with it, for example Maastricht - Vaals via Drielandenpunt (the highest point in the Netherlands and is the border between Belgium, Netherlands and Germany).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I really cannot recomend Brussels - bar the Grand Place it is a dirty and treeless city with few open spaces and some very insalubrious people hanging around most of the Central stations. Base yourself somewhere more civilized, - or go to Germany (much better value and overall pretty friendly with plenty of good English speakers) , Holland likewise has much more to offer if flat and EMU dominated (though plenty of freight action around Rotterdam) - last days of loco hauled on the Brussels - Amsterdam coming up.

 

[toerist]

If you go to Belgium, don't forget to visit Antwerp, it's by far our most spectacular railway station, Trains stopping at 3 different levels, which can all be seen from 1 point if you pick the right location

if you want more information regarding train compositions you can always check http://www.beluxtrains.net , which is mostly correct, do pay attention there are quite some timetable changes 9 december, which will have their effect on the train compositions

the trains in the Knokke/Blankenberge - Bruges - Brussels - Hasselt - Tongeren line are indeed mostly operated by M6 double decker coaches and HLE18 or HLE27 locos, which combine/Split in Bruges using automatic couplers (except for some off peak services operated by AM96 emu's)
The M6 compositions are used in split/combination services aswell on certain De Panne/ Kortrijk - Ghent - Brussels Airport - Antwerp services during peak hours

If you are lucky you can still catch some old red EMU's which will all vanish in the coming year, the old 1962 stock (1xx and 2xx) are expected to go in december but the 1974 stock (8xx) will still soldier on for their last years, while the remaining red 1986 stock (9xx) are now all beeing refurbish as rubber duckies

 

[eastwestdivide]

... rubber duckies

What are they?

 

[johnnychips]

If you are lucky you can still catch some old red EMU's which will all vanish in the coming year, the old 1962 stock (1xx and 2xx)

You haven't any pictures of these have you? We might moan about Pacers' being old, but I suspect these units are more robust.

 

[WestCoast]

I really cannot recomend Brussels - bar the Grand Place it is a dirty and treeless city with few open spaces and some very insalubrious people hanging around most of the Central stations.

Brussels is a bit gritty and expensive, but I do like Schuman near Gare du Luxembourg with the quaint bars which are popular after work. I think Gare du Nord is considerably worse than Gare du Centrale and Gare du Midi, mainly due to the area that the former is located in.

Flanders has some great cities - Antwerp, Ghent and Bruges are all firm favourites of mine.

Belgium has a lot to offer, although the system is a little less modern and well maintained then neighbouring countries.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

That's a strange thing to shout. I'll admit, I've never heard anybody say that before.

I'm tempted to get a t-shirt with that printed on the front

Would that be printed in Flemish and French, so as not to upset either side?

 

[Golghar]

Would that be printed in Flemish and French, so as not to upset either side?

In that case it should be printed in three languages as Welkenraedt impinges upon the German-speaking part on Belgium.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

In that case it should be printed in three languages as Welkenraedt impinges upon the German-speaking part on Belgium.

Haha! Missed that one! Don't want to cause an international incident!

 

[33056]

You haven't any pictures of these have you? We might moan about Pacers' being old, but I suspect these units are more robust.

Unrefurbished red version, refurbished and repainted and, yes, they are quite a lot more robust than Pacers.

 

[DiscoStu]

Do they still do the T-T-B (Train Tram Bus) day in Belgium?

They used to do it every Easter time, and you'd always get 52/53's (sometimes NB .. or "dots") on the morning Namur to Dinant, and then the Dinant to Bertrix. You'd also get Top'n'tail NB 51's on a Neerpelt to Weert shuttle, which often used ancient sleeper carriages.

I once dropped onto 5111 at Brussels Midi to Liege relief formed of DB compartment stock - that's the only time I've known a 51 work a passenger train under the wires to Liege. Massive.

The Oostende to Arlon reliefs sometimes dropped 23/26's too.

Anybody know if they still do it?

 

[radamfi]

I think the last TTB day was 2007. I wasn't that keen on TTB day as it meant that trains were grossly overcrowded.

 

[Oscar]

Would that be printed in Flemish and French, so as not to upset either side?

Remember that Flemish is the dialect of Dutch spoken in Flanders and that the official languages of Belgium are Dutch, French and German. Sometimes the Flemish call their language Vlaams, Flemish - the spoken language varies considerably from Standard Dutch but the written language is almost identical.

On the point of language, NMBS/SNCB offer relatively little information on the ground in languages other than the local languages - announcements, signage and information about disruption is generally not translated outside of some major hubs. I have experienced an ICE cancellation in Brussels where the information was only displayed in French and Dutch on the departure boards even though a large proportion of the passengers were British or German. Another time an announcement was made in Dutch only on a stoptrein from Roosendaal to Antwerpen following the cancelation of the Beneluxtrein beyond Roosendaal for all Brussels passengers to change at Essen (B), even though a large proportion of the Amsterdam-Brussels passengers could not speak Dutch. Internal communication problems due to language issues are also apparently not unheard of.

 

[atillathehunn]

You haven't any pictures of these have you? We might moan about Pacers' being old, but I suspect these units are more robust.

Yep, got plenty if they are the ones you want. If not, the railway is 200m from my house and the 189s work the trains to Liege from here.

Let me know if you want some via PM.

 

[johnnychips]

Thanks - or just let me know what to type into Google Images.

As to the language, most people in Flanders and Brussels speak English. In the French-speaking area (Wallonia), not so much. It is great getting on the train in Eupen, where the announcements are in German, then after that French to Brussels where announcements are in French and Dutch, then after that Dutch to Ostend.

 

[atillathehunn]

Not quite, it changes to Dutch around Leuven. Edited as I'm really not awake this evening...

English is pretty universal across Belgium. I think you got unlucky to find someone who didn't speak English!

As for searching - just a generic google image search should throw up everything you need, I don't know any good sites that you can find them on sorry.

 

[Oscar]

Thanks - or just let me know what to type into Google Images.

As to the language, most people in Flanders and Brussels speak English. In the French-speaking area (Wallonia), not so much. It is great getting on the train in Eupen, where the announcements are in German, then after that French to Brussels where announcements are in French and Dutch, then after that Dutch to Ostend.

Don't forget Dutch in Leuven between Liège and Brussels!

 

[button_boxer]

In my experience Belgian regional and local train announcements follow the official regional languages, so Dutch only while the train is in Flanders, French only when in Wallonia and bilingual in the Brussels capital region. International ICE and Thalys announcements are in both languages plus English and (on services into Germany) German, but always with the "local" language first so the order changes through the journey (something like FR/NL/DE/EN in Brussels, NL/DE/FR/EN in Antwerp, DE/NL/FR/EN in Aachen from what I remember).

 

[toerist]

What are they?

The refurbished AM86 units, because of their yellow fronts they are nicknamed "rubber duckies" amongst rail staff

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You haven't any pictures of these have you? We might moan about Pacers' being old, but I suspect these units are more robust.

of course, you can check here: http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/B/SNCB_AM62.php and http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/be/electric/emu/AM62/pix.html or http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/be/electric/emu/AM65/pix.html

 

[johnnychips]

Oops, sorry, forgot about Leuven!

Thanks toerist, now I know what trains we're talking about.

 

[toerist]

In my experience Belgian regional and local train announcements follow the official regional languages, so Dutch only while the train is in Flanders, French only when in Wallonia and bilingual in the Brussels capital region. International ICE and Thalys announcements are in both languages plus English and (on services into Germany) German, but always with the "local" language first so the order changes through the journey (something like FR/NL/DE/EN in Brussels, NL/DE/FR/EN in Antwerp, DE/NL/FR/EN in Aachen from what I remember).

The use of languages in Belgium is written in the law, we are officially only allowed to use English when a person speaks English to us or if we make an announcement in the 3 official languages (first your mother tongue (Dutch for me), than the second language (French) and German) before we can make an announcement in English aswell, unfortunately a lot of people working for the railways don't know enough German to make a proper announcement, so that's why often announcements in other languages are not made

 

[33056]

Thanks - or just let me know what to type into Google Images.

There were links to some pictures in my previous posts, perhaps I shouldn't "hide" them within the text (usually do it that way because it looks neater) to untangle them:
This is an unrefurbished one http://jandjcottrell.zenfolio.com/p562204801/hba3cb4b#hba3cb4b
and this a refurbished and repainted one http://jandjcottrell.zenfolio.com/p562204801/hba3cb4b#h2a84dec6

 

[radamfi]

The use of languages in Belgium is written in the law, we are officially only allowed to use English when a person speaks English to us or if we make an announcement in the 3 official languages (first your mother tongue (Dutch for me), than the second language (French) and German) before we can make an announcement in English aswell, unfortunately a lot of people working for the railways don't know enough German to make a proper announcement, so that's why often announcements in other languages are not made

Do all railway staff know how to speak both Dutch and French? I thought that many native Dutch speakers from Flanders and Brussels can speak French, but not that many native French speakers from Brussels and Wallonia can speak Dutch.

Are they also required to be able to speak English?

 

[toerist]

Belgian rail staff, serving in costumer contact jobs, are required to know both Dutch and French (admitted that the Dutch of some French speaking colleagues isn't perfect) There's is no obligation to speak German or English though

 

[johnnychips]

I remember getting on a Liege/Luik - Antwerp/Antwerpen/Anvers train, after just making a delayed connection from Aachan/Aken/Aix-la Chapelle. When I asked in French for a ticket to Antwerp/Antwerpen/Anvers the guard asked me in French why I hadn't bought a ticket already. I tried to explain in terrible French, and finally he gave me a ticket. Later I realised Dutch was his first language, and it would have been a lot easier to try and explain in that language - not least because as soon as you try and speak Dutch, they realise you are English and speak in that language!

Belgium is a marvellous country.