Belgium rails - any ideas, thoughts?

[Techniquest]

Hi all,

Having last night finally booked myself onto a Eurostar trip to Brussels in January, and hotel in the early hours of this morning, I've now commenced research into where to go and all that. I've discovered there's a Metro system, and I've ordered a European rail map today too, but now I'm at this point:

I need recommendations on where to go first and help with traction. That is to say, any recommendations on anything rateable to go on? Not found any details yet on a Brussels day ticket, and I'm considering going to Liege or Bruges. Been to Bruges on a school trip years ago, but that was by coach.

Looks like Belgium has an extensive railway network from a map I saw on t'internet, so should be interesting. Regretting not going for longer now, as I'm arriving into Brussels on 7th January, all day 8th January and leaving lunchtime 9th January.

Any thoughts ladies and gents?

 

[transmanche]

I travelled by Eurostar and SNCB/NMBS to Bruges just a few weeks ago. Not as a 'rail orientated' trip, but did see some things which some may find interesting.

I was intrigued by loco-hauled, double-deck InterCity trains towards Bruges - which then split to serve two different towns along the coast. Intrigued because I couldn't work out if they used two locos (one at each end) on the shared route or not!

Seemed to be quite a variety of freight trains around Ostend.

The Kusttram (Coast tram) is worth a trip €5 for a 'De Lijne' day bus/tram pass.

Brussels metro trains have horrible seats, the tram/pre-metro was nicer. €6 for a Brussels region bus/metro/tram/train day pass.

 

[Golghar]

If it's your first visit to Brussels you might want to visit the Atomium and of course Waterloo is a 15 minute train ride from Bruxelles-Midi station.

 

[eastwestdivide]

...
I was intrigued by loco-hauled, double-deck InterCity trains towards Bruges - which then split to serve two different towns along the coast. Intrigued because I couldn't work out if they used two locos (one at each end) on the shared route or not!

A couple of years back, some of those Bruges splitters to the coast were formed loco-coaches-driving trailer-loco-coaches-driving trailer. Don't know if that's still the case.

But then again, don't be fooled into thinking a train splits if the destination screens at Brussels show two destinations - might just be the same place in two languages, e.g. Mechelen - Malines and Bergen - Mons.

 

[Eagle]

Waterloo is a 15 minute train ride from Bruxelles-Midi station.

I can't be the only one who needed to read that twice.

 

[87015]

Traction wise it is now very boring... Siemens Vectron 18s (and now 19s) work the vast majority of hauled services. By January I'd have thought the 13s will all be freight only unless they hang onto some Lux workings, 28s finish at December timetable replaced by new FYRA carts and the 11s appear to have stopped already.

You should still get off-peak 21s but I think 27s are now peak only. If you haven't seen a proper loco-hauled peak then either doing tunnel leaps or just sitting back and watching is worthwhile. If you join Bel-Rail on yahoogroups there should be full sets of diagrams although the December ones won't be out until nearer the time.

Still you can knock up about 40 locos in a day on a six euro Brussels jump ticket if you are desperate/dedicated enough!

 

[Techniquest]

Cheers all for the gen,shall research the Atonium,and Waterloo needs looking at too.

As for getting that many locos in one day,nice!On my phone at the moment so not practical to look them all up on Flickr or YouTube.However I will ASAP,probably gonna focus on Brussels this time then do Belgium as a whole next time.Plenty of time to decide yet at least.Can't imagine Brussels to Liege or Bruges will be too expensive.

€6 for a day pass in Brussels sounds good value!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Having just looked at that link,got to be worth a visit!

 

[johnnychips]

Liege Guillemins station is fantastic, but you need to jump on another service to Liege Palais for the city centre. Your ticket will be marked 'Zone Liege' so it costs no more. The city is busy, the area next to the Maas river is nice. Most of the freight activity seems to be to the east, so you may want to travel on to the next station, Angleur, which should be covered by your ticket.

Bruges (Brugge) station is within walking distance of the centre. It is beautiful, but a tourist trap.

Surprised you have not thought about Antwerp, which has a magnificent station and is accessible to the city centre. You will just miss the loco-hauled Benelux trains, as the Fyra will be introduced by then.

The best city in Belgium is Gent. Unfortunately St Pieters station is undergoing one of its periodic reconstructions, and it is a 2km tramride from the centre.

The fares are not dear but have risen recently. There are no advances, and returns are twice the single fare as you are travelling midweek. However if you bought an 'Any Belgian Station' ticket, you can use it away from Brussels on the outward bound, but more pertinently use it at any time of the day of your return as long as you are travelling towards Brussels. But as you are staying in Brussels, this will not apply to you.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for that rather useful post, looks like I've a lot to plan before January!

 

[radamfi]

The fares are not dear but have risen recently. There are no advances, and returns are twice the single fare as you are travelling midweek. However if you bought an 'Any Belgian Station' ticket, you can use it away from Brussels on the outward bound, but more pertinently use it at any time of the day of your return as long as you are travelling towards Brussels. But as you are staying in Brussels, this will not apply to you.

I would say that fares are actually remarkably cheap. Certainly the cheapest in western Europe. You can get 10 single trips for any distance for €76 (€50 if you are under 26).

 

[johnnychips]

I would say that fares are actually remarkably cheap. Certainly the cheapest in western Europe. You can get 10 single trips for any distance for €76 (€50 if you are under 26).

You are absolutely right. There are normal weekend returns which reduce the price, and at times either side around Xmas and New Year weekend 'shopping returns' which limit a day trip cost anywhere in Belgium to, I think last year it was, €8,50. Unfortunately these, and your example, won't apply to the OP's short midweek visit.

To visit the Atomium, which has been done up recently, and worth a visit, you need a metro or tram to Heysel. How accessible that is depends on where you are staying.

The jewel of Brussels is the Grand Place/Grote Maarkt which is best accessed from Brussels Central station. Walk west from there and you will find the Mannekin-Pis statue (overrated if you've ever been to a garden centre) but on the way you will also pass the Kaasmaarkt which is known as 'Pita Street' because of its excellent, cheap Turkish restaurants. If you're rich, you'll head east from the Grand Place for posh restaurants, but actually the best one serving traditional Belgian food - not cheap but not dear - and certainly not vegetarian is ''t Kelderke' on the south side of the Grande Place itself.

 

[maniacmartin]

Also, don't go on a Monday as it seems to be the day that all of the tourist attractions are closed!

 

[DiscoStu]

No bash in Belgium would be complete without doing "The Rat" overnight!

22:50 Oostende - Welkenraedt 02:02

Sleep on the empty stock, then

04:04 Welkenraedt - Brussels Midi 06:03

Just in time for the rush hour

 

[theblackwatch]

No bash in Belgium would be complete without doing "The Rat" overnight!

22:50 Oostende - Welkenraedt 02:02

Sleep on the empty stock, then

04:04 Welkenraedt - Brussels Midi 06:03

Just in time for the rush hour

Do people still actually do that desperate move!

 

[DiscoStu]

Do people still actually do that desperate move!

Dunno

I gave up bashing completely in 1997, so haven't done it myself for a loooong time, but I have to admit to doing it at least a few times in the past.

Has to be the worst overnight in history, you end up feeling like ****e by the time you get off in Brussels the following morning, especially if you get some nob of a guard who doesn't let you stay on the stock

I'd always choose an overnight over a hotel though, no matter how rancid

Is it still loco hauled? I imagine they've gotten rid of those shocking long bench style orange seats by now too?

 

[johnnychips]

Dunno

especially if you get some nob of a guard who doesn't let you stay on the stock

Is it still loco hauled? I imagine they've gotten rid of those shocking long bench style orange seats by now too?

Can't imagine many British guards letting you stay on waiting stock!

The trains on these services are still loco hauled (or pushed), and the carriages are comfortable.

Welkenraedt is not the centre of the universe!

 

[DiscoStu]

Welkenraedt is not the centre of the universe!

That's a strange thing to shout. I'll admit, I've never heard anybody say that before.

I'm tempted to get a t-shirt with that printed on the front

 

[Techniquest]

No thanks regarding that overnight move, I'd rather stay in a hotel despite the extra cost. Rubbish night's sleeping on Scottish and FGW sleepers, as well as rancid all-nighters around Manchester, Leeds, York, London and plenty of other places around the UK were difficult enough to tolerate when I was younger, however I've been spoilt by the luxury of having a comfortable bed, a shower, tea/coffee facilities and a TV, as well as security, in places like Travelodge.

That's not to say I haven't enjoyed all-nighter sessions at places like Carlisle in the past, but I'd struggle these days!

Just looked on YouTube for Belgian trains and came across a video from Liege. I want to go there principally for the awesome station there, it looks fantastic. The locos that I see around the 1 minute mark on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ncmcyE9EQs) look remarkably like 92s on the front too, and I noticed an ICE3 I believe at the beginning which is cool as I've never seen one in the flesh (no I didn't go to London when one came over). However this now raises questions, of which at least the first few are:

1) I like the idea of spending even a short time (up to an hour say) spotting on Liege, but I don't know if this is even permissable without written permission or whatever. Could anyone fill me in on this?

2) What are those locos around the 1 minute mark, and do they, as I assume, work much in the way of inter-city journeys? (Just watched the end of that train leave, it's got a green loco on the other end. Now I've confuzzled myself!)

3) One also assumes that the best way to get to Liege would be to get to Bruxxels Nord/Central and get a return to Liege. So would this be a fair assumption and is the stock comfortable?

In other news, I got my European rail map the other day and to say there's a LOT to do is an understatement! My coverage of Europe is pitiful so far, however now I've looked over my map I'm planning more trips!

 

[Golghar]

I want to go there principally for the awesome station there, it looks fantastic.

This is what it used to look like till the old building was pulled down a few years ago.

I don't think the concept of a "listed building" exists in Belgium.

 

[Chester025]

1) I like the idea of spending even a short time (up to an hour say) spotting on Liege, but I don't know if this is even permissable without written permission or whatever. Could anyone fill me in on this?

I don't see why there would be a problem, Europe generally don't have the same attitude towards this as over here.

2) What are those locos around the 1 minute mark, and do they, as I assume, work much in the way of inter-city journeys? (Just watched the end of that train leave, it's got a green loco on the other end. Now I've confuzzled myself!)

It's a banker engine, most hauled stuff gets banked out of Liege towards Ans.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chester025/6294473866/

 

[DiscoStu]

If you're gonna dip your toe into Belgium, you really should try Germany too ... amazing country for trains.

 

[Oscar]

3) One also assumes that the best way to get to Liege would be to get to Bruxxels Nord/Central and get a return to Liege. So would this be a fair assumption and is the stock comfortable?

There are hourly IC trains which generally runs at the following times:
____________________________ Out Return
- Bruxelles Midi/Brussel Zuid ______ xx.58 xx.03
- Bruxelles-Central/Brussel-Centraal xx.01-02 xx.59-xx.00
- Bruxelles-Nord/Brussel-Noord ___ xx.05-07 xx.54-xx.56
- Leuven ______________________ xx.25-27 xx.34-xx.37
(high speed line)
- Liège-Guillemins _______________ xx.02. xx.00
A standard return costs 28€20.

Why don't you buy the 10 single tickets?

 

[Techniquest]

Aye Germany was going to be done this summer,however I did an ALR instead.Looks massive on my map,gonna be difficult to know where to start there!

Brussels came out through remembering there's bits of HS1 I need to do and fancied going to Brussels as never been and already done the TGV route to Paris.Next time I've got my eyes on Spain,Denmark or Germany.

Cheers Chester025 for the gen,watched the rest of the video and saw there was quite a bank heading towards Brussels!

 

[87015]

There is very little banking left out of Leige now - the remaining 23s should be going in the bin at the December TT. A 77 will be knocking around for any on-the-day banking required after then AFAIK but without any planned use.

The locos one minute into your video are 13s, as above these have lost the majority of passenger work but you should still have some available in the new year on Brussels - Luxembourg turns as the 18s are not passed into Lux.

 

[atillathehunn]

Wouldn't recommend spending any time hanging around Brussels Noord station. Well known as a slightly suspect location. Actually for that matter any of the Brussels stations you need to keep an eye out at all times on your bags and pockets. A friend of mine here is nursing a broken wrist from an attempted mugging at Brussels Midi a few weeks ago, in the middle of the day.

Liege station is impressive superficially, but that's about the extent of it. There are some 21 and 23s hanging round in the yard just outside the station, and on the stopping trains to Brussels. The fast trains to/from Brussels are in the hands of the 18s as they use the high speed link as far as Leuven.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, cafe Delirium is always worth a visit when in Brussels. Over 2000 different beers.

 

[Techniquest]

There are hourly IC trains which generally runs at the following times:
____________________________ Out Return
- Bruxelles Midi/Brussel Zuid ______ xx.58 xx.03
- Bruxelles-Central/Brussel-Centraal xx.01-02 xx.59-xx.00
- Bruxelles-Nord/Brussel-Noord ___ xx.05-07 xx.54-xx.56
- Leuven ______________________ xx.25-27 xx.34-xx.37
(high speed line)
- Liège-Guillemins _______________ xx.02. xx.00
A standard return costs 28€20.

Why don't you buy the 10 single tickets?

Missed this when I replied yesterday sorry.

Hourly isn't bad, €28.20 is not bad either and the journey time seems quite acceptable. Shall make a decision nearer the time.

As for 10 single tickets, I'm not going to be over there long enough to use up 10 singles!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Cheers gang for the help there, shall investigate further. Luxemborg trains sound like the best option then, wishing I was going over for longer than a day and a bit now!

 

[atillathehunn]

If you aren't going to be there long enough to get through 10 tickets, why not get a Go-Pass 1. If you're under 26 it gives you a flat fare across the country of €6.50. In effect halving the price of your standard return from Brussels to Leuven. You can buy these one at a time, so you can buy exactly how many you need.

Go to this website (in English) to buy them: http://www.belgianrail.be/en/travel-tickets/tickets.aspx

And select Go-Pass 1.

 

[PaulLothian]

I always fancied a run along the Vicinal, having spent a week in De Panne in the 1960s in midwinter watching the trams.

 

[Techniquest]

Shame I'll be 28 by then in that case! Knew I should have done my Euro bashing before I turned 26!

 

[Capybara]

I'm just back from Germany/Belgium and a bit of the Netherlands and this ticket which I used is quite useful if you want to see a wide variety of stock in a short time:

http://www.avv.de/fileadmin/sites/avv/download_FTP/Tarif_Ticket_Flyer/euregioticket.pdf

It's probably a bit out of your way if you are staying in Brussels (I was in Aachen) but might be something to think about for the future. As well as the Belgian stuff you can see most Dutch passenger classes in Maastricht and plenty of German stuff as well as having a look at Aachen West yard all in the same day. There's also a steam railway http://www.zlsm.nl/ that operates into Valkenburg most weekends though travel on that is extra.

Incidentally, I popped into Eupen from Verviers to 'do' the branch and have a look at Eupen. I was going to ask this on another thread, but is there such a sparsely populated train anywhere? Practically everyone got out at Verviers and there were less than ten got out at Eupen meaning that there was at least one coach each per passenger - it's a ten coach train - though it was the middle of the afternoon. Obviously it's better used for the rest of the route (it travels from Ostende through Brussels).