Yes it was. Destroyed by the French revolution.
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Belgian travel advice
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ricohallo
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I believe this used to be different but it's now allowed to stop off at stations on the shortest route.
AlastairFraser
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Stop off and change trains or exit the actual building?
ricohallo
Member
"Interrupt the journey", so yes exiting the building. It's mentioned in the documents under "Download" on this page (French and Dutch only): https://www.belgiantrain.be/en/tickets-and-railcards/railpass
AlastairFraser
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Ah, OK, thanks for the correction. Wasn't aware that I was allowed when I got the ticket and did a trip back in last Oct!
A Senior Ticket used as a single is still cheaper than one journey on a "standard multi" (formerly Rail Pass), but with the limitation that you cant use it before 9 AM on a working day.
Further, a single international ticket for 65+ to any station in Luxembourg in 2nd class has a maximum price of €10 and no time limits. If you travel on a Standard Multi or Senior Ticket, you'll still need a separate ticket from the last station in Belgium, which is usually €2.50. Luxembourg is free of charge in 2nd class and this is taken into account when you buy an international ticket. Break of journey is permitted with all tickets.
Hi, Thanks for all of your advice. I'll give you my experiences:
The journey from the airport to the hotel went without a hitch. There's an SNCB ticket machine near the bus stops at Charleroi airport. There's a button specifically to buy a ticket for the bus, so I did this, and then bought another ticket from the TVM at Fleurus station. In any event, it seems the TVMs allow you to change your origin but I could be wrong as I never actually attempted this. The coastal tram is definitely worth it but may be better off season as was full and standing on almost all trams I took. It was a sunny Wednesday. Bought a day/24 hour ticket from the De Lijn TVM at Blankenberge tram stop. Never had it checked and glad to see in some ways chav parenting is a thing in Belgium too: A Belgian mother with kids boarded the tram. Teenage lad goes to tap on his card, his mother stops him and scalds him for the 'Geldverspilling' (Waste of money) as they never check! I'm not sure teaching your kids to avoid paying is good parenting, with the 'administrative fine' (yes they call it that) being €107 for a first time offence with De Lijn!
Thursday I took a trip to Brussels and visited Trainworld which was fairly ok but didn't learn too much new. Still not as good as the museum in Utrecht, NL for example, but I've never seen a railway museum that beats that one, just my humble opinion. TBH I'd probably take York or Shildon over it, especially considering the entry fee. I noticed my ticket to Schaerbeek was issued to 'Zone Brussels', and was fine to continue my journey on the Brussel Zuid where I did a self guided tour of a brewery. Bought a single back. In hindsight this was a mistake, I perhaps could have bought a discovery ticket had I booked trainworld online and saved myself half the fare, but at the time thought it would be issued to Schaerbeek station and couldn't be bothered retracing my route. Took the direct route from Brussel Zuid back to Leuven, interestingly the ticket from Brussel Zuid was issued in English, all tickets were issued in the language of the place I was local to except this one. For example, in Fleurus they were issued in French and in De Panne and Leuven they were issued in Dutch.
It's also interesting that trains aren't truly bilingual, they seem to change the moment you cross the border from Wallonia to Flanders, from French to Dutch, presumably using GPS and were bilingual only going through Brussels. I found this a curious arrangement.
Friday I had a ticket booked for Bobbejeaanland theme park, not actually that bad (does Bobbejaan mean baboon in Dutch as it does in Afrikaans? No baboons there but apparently named after a singer whose nickname it was?). The easiest route was a De Lijn bus to Herentals station, for €2.50, much cheaper and slightly quicker than the train, which would have involved a change. It's here there was a slight issue. I tapped my card on the white reader, which was beeping intermittently, the driver said it's not working and told me to buy an SMS ticket. Not being on a local SIM I figured this wouldn't work and eventually bought an 'orrible M ticket from the app. I say eventually, it was quickly and in a panic. It seems a bit unfair to force people to use an inferior medium because their infrastructure isn't working. If I'd have known this would have been an issue I'd have bought a single on one of those disposable mobib cards. Anyway, all goes well until we get to near the end of the trip, my Barcode now says fully used as the journey was over an hour. RPIs get on. I start to get nervous, he scans another passengers ticket, his tablet lights up green. He scans mine, bright red. Gives me a stern look. I then explain I tried to pay contactless at Leuven, before I can finish explaining he says 'That is okay' In English. Glad to know Belgian RPIs aren't as ludicrously Robocop as Northern Rail ones... Took the shuttle bus to Bobbejaanland rather than continuing with a walk, conductor on the bus issues a paper return ticket for a rip off fee, but I'm glad for the convenience. On the way back, I'm sure to buy a disposable single ticket from the TVM at Herentals bus station. I recommend these tickets if you're travelling with De Lijn. They remain valid for a year until tapped on and then act as a hopper fare, where you can get any bus or tram operated by De Lijn within the next hour and complete your ride on the last one. So you can buy for future use, just be sure to remember which ones are used and which ones aren't. In theory contactless should work like that, but that wasn't my experience.
Saturday back to the airport. I bought a single train ticket to Fleurus, direct train, there was some reactive delay from a signalling fault elsewhere - about twelve minutes and missed the connection to the bus. One disadvantage of the continental approach to connections is they tend to be a little bit desperate. So glad I got an earlier train than necessary so I could wait around bored at the airport, which I always arrive in plenty of time for. In addition to a 30 minute+ wait at Fleurus station for the next bus. At Fleurus, again the SNCB TVM has a button on it for buying an airport bus ticket, so split ticketing with the bus couldn't be easier. I opted for this. Don't use the Le TEC 'Self' machine, this appears to be only for loading tickets onto a smart card. The SNCB machine will give you a paper ticket with an Aztec code on, much like any other Belgian train ticket. I couldn't see any evidence of a card machine on the bus and the one person who did pay on it did indeed use cash. The Le Tec website says they don't accept notes over €10 on buses, but this wasn't for the airport bus specifically. It may even be that on bus purchase is cash only , but I do very much get the impression they don't like people paying on board. On 'normal' Le Tec buses it costs more to pay on board in cash, apparently.
Hope this helps anyone planning a trip.
Some further observations: Belgian trains are tidy inside, if graffiti'd on the outisde and a little soulless. Or at least the ones I got. They were all but one quiet, only had one train where people had to stand and that was the train from Antwerp back to Leuven, on which I changed to from De Panne. And this was just after rush hour going through Brussels. I was actually impressed. Like Dutch trains, they seem to be a bit slower than ours on most routes but I could be wrong. Also there seem to be fewer destinations served by rail, I'm told as a result of the 'Intercity Plan' in the early 80s, essentially the Belgian Beeching Axe only twenty years later. Either way getting around Belgium by public transport was generally very practical and the trains were pretty good from this point of view.
The journey from the airport to the hotel went without a hitch. There's an SNCB ticket machine near the bus stops at Charleroi airport. There's a button specifically to buy a ticket for the bus, so I did this, and then bought another ticket from the TVM at Fleurus station. In any event, it seems the TVMs allow you to change your origin but I could be wrong as I never actually attempted this. The coastal tram is definitely worth it but may be better off season as was full and standing on almost all trams I took. It was a sunny Wednesday. Bought a day/24 hour ticket from the De Lijn TVM at Blankenberge tram stop. Never had it checked and glad to see in some ways chav parenting is a thing in Belgium too: A Belgian mother with kids boarded the tram. Teenage lad goes to tap on his card, his mother stops him and scalds him for the 'Geldverspilling' (Waste of money) as they never check! I'm not sure teaching your kids to avoid paying is good parenting, with the 'administrative fine' (yes they call it that) being €107 for a first time offence with De Lijn!
Thursday I took a trip to Brussels and visited Trainworld which was fairly ok but didn't learn too much new. Still not as good as the museum in Utrecht, NL for example, but I've never seen a railway museum that beats that one, just my humble opinion. TBH I'd probably take York or Shildon over it, especially considering the entry fee. I noticed my ticket to Schaerbeek was issued to 'Zone Brussels', and was fine to continue my journey on the Brussel Zuid where I did a self guided tour of a brewery. Bought a single back. In hindsight this was a mistake, I perhaps could have bought a discovery ticket had I booked trainworld online and saved myself half the fare, but at the time thought it would be issued to Schaerbeek station and couldn't be bothered retracing my route. Took the direct route from Brussel Zuid back to Leuven, interestingly the ticket from Brussel Zuid was issued in English, all tickets were issued in the language of the place I was local to except this one. For example, in Fleurus they were issued in French and in De Panne and Leuven they were issued in Dutch.
It's also interesting that trains aren't truly bilingual, they seem to change the moment you cross the border from Wallonia to Flanders, from French to Dutch, presumably using GPS and were bilingual only going through Brussels. I found this a curious arrangement.
Friday I had a ticket booked for Bobbejeaanland theme park, not actually that bad (does Bobbejaan mean baboon in Dutch as it does in Afrikaans? No baboons there but apparently named after a singer whose nickname it was?). The easiest route was a De Lijn bus to Herentals station, for €2.50, much cheaper and slightly quicker than the train, which would have involved a change. It's here there was a slight issue. I tapped my card on the white reader, which was beeping intermittently, the driver said it's not working and told me to buy an SMS ticket. Not being on a local SIM I figured this wouldn't work and eventually bought an 'orrible M ticket from the app. I say eventually, it was quickly and in a panic. It seems a bit unfair to force people to use an inferior medium because their infrastructure isn't working. If I'd have known this would have been an issue I'd have bought a single on one of those disposable mobib cards. Anyway, all goes well until we get to near the end of the trip, my Barcode now says fully used as the journey was over an hour. RPIs get on. I start to get nervous, he scans another passengers ticket, his tablet lights up green. He scans mine, bright red. Gives me a stern look. I then explain I tried to pay contactless at Leuven, before I can finish explaining he says 'That is okay' In English. Glad to know Belgian RPIs aren't as ludicrously Robocop as Northern Rail ones... Took the shuttle bus to Bobbejaanland rather than continuing with a walk, conductor on the bus issues a paper return ticket for a rip off fee, but I'm glad for the convenience. On the way back, I'm sure to buy a disposable single ticket from the TVM at Herentals bus station. I recommend these tickets if you're travelling with De Lijn. They remain valid for a year until tapped on and then act as a hopper fare, where you can get any bus or tram operated by De Lijn within the next hour and complete your ride on the last one. So you can buy for future use, just be sure to remember which ones are used and which ones aren't. In theory contactless should work like that, but that wasn't my experience.
Saturday back to the airport. I bought a single train ticket to Fleurus, direct train, there was some reactive delay from a signalling fault elsewhere - about twelve minutes and missed the connection to the bus. One disadvantage of the continental approach to connections is they tend to be a little bit desperate. So glad I got an earlier train than necessary so I could wait around bored at the airport, which I always arrive in plenty of time for. In addition to a 30 minute+ wait at Fleurus station for the next bus. At Fleurus, again the SNCB TVM has a button on it for buying an airport bus ticket, so split ticketing with the bus couldn't be easier. I opted for this. Don't use the Le TEC 'Self' machine, this appears to be only for loading tickets onto a smart card. The SNCB machine will give you a paper ticket with an Aztec code on, much like any other Belgian train ticket. I couldn't see any evidence of a card machine on the bus and the one person who did pay on it did indeed use cash. The Le Tec website says they don't accept notes over €10 on buses, but this wasn't for the airport bus specifically. It may even be that on bus purchase is cash only , but I do very much get the impression they don't like people paying on board. On 'normal' Le Tec buses it costs more to pay on board in cash, apparently.
Hope this helps anyone planning a trip.
Some further observations: Belgian trains are tidy inside, if graffiti'd on the outisde and a little soulless. Or at least the ones I got. They were all but one quiet, only had one train where people had to stand and that was the train from Antwerp back to Leuven, on which I changed to from De Panne. And this was just after rush hour going through Brussels. I was actually impressed. Like Dutch trains, they seem to be a bit slower than ours on most routes but I could be wrong. Also there seem to be fewer destinations served by rail, I'm told as a result of the 'Intercity Plan' in the early 80s, essentially the Belgian Beeching Axe only twenty years later. Either way getting around Belgium by public transport was generally very practical and the trains were pretty good from this point of view.
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johncrossley
Established Member
I'm curious to know what the legal situation is with a malfunctioning white contactless reader on the bus. To be fair it ought to be free travel if it isn't working. Why is that any different to a malfunctioning driver machine that won't read a paper single ticket bought from the ticket machine at a bus station?
I'd say the Belgian rail network is denser than most of England outside the SE and considerably more dense than the Netherlands. Belgium has more stations than the Netherlands even though it is smaller in both area and population. The Netherlands makes up for that with high frequency trains and exceptionally good bus services.
I'd say the Belgian rail network is denser than most of England outside the SE and considerably more dense than the Netherlands. Belgium has more stations than the Netherlands even though it is smaller in both area and population. The Netherlands makes up for that with high frequency trains and exceptionally good bus services.
Interesting. You're almost certainly right and myself wrong! Perhaps it's still pretty dense, even if less dense than it used to be. Yes, the frequency isn't as good as in the Netherlands or much of the UK. Buses were better from an early to late perspective, but probably a little worse from a frequency perspective but I could be wrong on this too. The route I used would probably finish about 7pm in the UK judging by the patronage on what was an hourly service during the day.
johncrossley
Established Member
The most odd thing about Belgian trains is the limited local train service on Saturdays compared to weekdays. In most of western Europe, Saturday frequency is more like weekday off-peak service than Sunday service, whereas in Belgium Saturday service is like Sunday service.
AlastairFraser
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I'm glad you enjoyed your time there.
A few things to comment on:
1) The ticket dodgers on the Kusttram, I'm guessing this was out the east end of Ostend somewhere, it looked slightly more sketchy in parts than anywhere else on the coast that I visited (specifically the east end, western and central section were perfectly pleasant). This is all relative, of course, Belgium in general feels a lot safer than most of the UK lol.
2.) When I was there last Oct, maybe I was just lucky but there was an issue with a unit on the Charleroi to Liege line at Sambreville I believe, and a unit pulled up a few mins later which we all hopped on and continued our journey with very minimal delay. I don't know if this is SNCB policy, but connections seemed to be pretty decent, occasionally above and beyond what the UK railway system tends to offer. I'm surprised about your delay to Fleurus meant you missed the connection, but I guess things happen.
3) I could have sworn I bought an airport bus single from the TEC machine before, but maybe I mixed it up! Thanks for clarifying that you can definitely buy one from the SNCB machine at Fleurus too.
4) That zone Brussels feature is certainly useful, I didn't make use of it on my last visit but it looks very useful for anything in the future.
This is strange indeed. I've never seen tickets issued in another language than Dutch, French or German. Did you buy it from a TVM? Maybe I'll try to get a rail pass in English.
That's the law. Unlikely to change anytime soon. Additional languages are allowed, but they'll then have to use Dutch, French and German (in the correct order) before English or any other language.
Hi, Yes, I did buy it from a TVM at Brussel Zuid, having used the English language button on the TVM first. I'll see if I still have the ticket. Unsure whether this is because I pressed the English language button, but to be fair I pressed the English language button on most of the other TVMs I used, particularly the ones in Wallonia as I don't really know French (I do know some Dutch but it's kind of beginners level stuff - that said I could still buy a train ticket in Dutch).
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
You'd be right with the location roughly. It was in Ostend.
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Thanks, this does seem the best way to go, to just buy tickets when and where i wish to travel. The route from Liege to Lux is supposed to be very scenic? In anyone's opinion which is the best way to come back from Lux to Namur, via Arlon and Marloie, or via Athus and Dinant?
I liked the Luxembourg -Liège route which is quite windy going through hilly country and some of it is single track so relatively slow. It is more picturesque than the line through Arlon. I understand from Lonely Planet that Troisvierges is an interesting place to stop off at. There was a good cross-platform connection at Liège with the fast train to get to Brussels.
43096
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Luxembourg to Liège is a nice line with good scenery. But beware that the trains are suburban EMUs, which are really not fit for such a long-distance service. Gone (sadly) are the days of comfortable Belgian I6 and I10 stock hauled by CFL 3000 locos.
Dépends on what you are looking for. Via Arlon you get a real IC train with confortable coaches, loco hauled, and speed up to 160 km/h, while via Athus it's a local train, EMU, and a more leisurely speed. Both itineraries are quite scenic.
In case you were wondering, here's what the English language Belgian train ticket looks like. A curiosity is that it still refers you to the French language website, sncb.be rather than the English language belgiantrain.be
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