Being directed to the wrong train

[Starmill]

Your opinions welcome on a dispute arising between a passenger and TOC in the following hypothetical scenario:

A small interchange station is operated by TOC A. Most of the services from it are operated by TOC B, which includes one line where only a handful of trains per day run.

One such low frequency service is scheduled to run and a TOC B train is stood in the platform, with the screen advertising said low frequency service as it stands there. The passenger boards and the train departs, but it quickly becomes clear that this is a TOC B service to a destination in another direction. The passenger is advised to get off and double back to said small interchange station, but misses the very low frequency service they had been intending to catch in the process.

As a result, the passenger incurs a delay of between 3 and 4 hours to their journey. Through tickets had already been purchased and partially used. How much of a case against TOC A does the passenger have for this delay?

Assume that: multiple passengers, travelling independently, end up in said situation and that TOC A staff on the ground advise that there is nothing to do but wait for the next train.

What would you do in this situation?

Available evidence to be submitted to TOC A may include:

• Tickets and Journey Itinerary
• A photograph of the screen displaying the low-freqency service as it appeared before the passenger boarded the wrong train
• A phone call made to the Customer Relations department at the time of missing the train and explaing the situation from the Passenger's point of view

Everyone please keep this hypothetical and impersonal. I realise this might not be possible (because its too abstract or whatever) and am happy to have this just sit here with 0 replies if that's the only alternative. Thanks.

 

[Clip]

Why would someone take a photograph of the screen before the trains departure? Is this something that you do regularly as I have never seen anyone ever do that in all my years on the railway.

 

[maniacmartin]

I take a picture of departure boards if the train I catch or the ones before it are running late, as late trains usually indicate there may be delays in the near future that could be Delay Repayable. I wouldn't take a picture of an on-time train though.

 

[Crossover]

Why would someone take a photograph of the screen before the trains departure? Is this something that you do regularly as I have never seen anyone ever do that in all my years on the railway.

Unusual service? I certainly have some from the likes of the TPE diverts

 

[Clip]

Unusual service? I certainly have some from the likes of the TPE diverts

This is not an unusual journey though from what I can read.

As I said, Never heard nor seen it before so find it odd.

 

[Starmill]

Perfectly reasonable to find it odd! My response would be that the journey is rare or could be special to an individual. Or they could do this every time they get on a train. Or just a lucky fluke. It's an assumption, the photograph is there. What do you do?

 

[Clip]

Perfectly reasonable to find it odd! My response would be that the journey is rare or could be special to an individual. Or they could do this every time they get on a train. Or just a lucky fluke. It's an assumption, the photograph is there. What do you do?

Right, so the photo is there.

What I would do is send that in to the the TOC who run the station explaining the situation and wait for them to get back to me.

I know if I ever got something through like that then I would sanction them to get paid some form of compensation for their delay in RTVs.

 

[Squaddie]

Everyone please keep this hypothetical and impersonal. I realise this might not be possible (because its too abstract or whatever) and am happy to have this just sit here with 0 replies if that's the only alternative. Thanks.

If this really is a "hypothetical" situation then it's probably in the wrong sub-forum; if it's not, then the lengths you are going to to avoid providing details of the actual incident are a little puzzling. Without the specific details, I don't think anyone will be able to offer useful advice.

 

[northwichcat]

In the hypothetical scenario does either the PIS or the conductor make a pre-announcement departure?

I was once on a Northern service where the guard announced pre-departure that the train would not call at stations a, b, c, d and e and repeated that announcement. A group of teenage girls who were on the train for both announcements didn't listen and complained to the conductor that the station staff had told them this was their train when he told them the train wasn't calling at the destination station on their tickets (which was station b) when doing a ticket check.

 

[Panda]

Why would someone take a photograph of the screen before the trains departure? Is this something that you do regularly as I have never seen anyone ever do that in all my years on the railway.

I take photographs of the departure boards whenever I take a FCC service in London which is not running on time (which is pretty much every journey with them). I have loads and loads of photos of departure boards...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If this really is a "hypothetical" situation then it's probably in the wrong sub-forum; if it's not, then the lengths you are going to to avoid providing details of the actual incident are a little puzzling. Without the specific details, I don't think anyone will be able to offer useful advice.

I agree.

In fact, it's becoming a little surreal :

I take photographs of the departure boards whenever I take a FCC service in London which is not running on time (which is pretty much every journey with them). I have loads and loads of photos of departure boards...

A hypothetical dispute but actual photos of departure boards! Quite odd.

 

[Clip]

I agree.

In fact, it's becoming a little surreal :

A hypothetical dispute but actual photos of departure boards! Quite odd.

Its becoming farcical lately. Its almost as if these hypothetical situations are arising to elicit answers that will assist them in either evading the fare to pay or falsley claiming delay repay. And taking pics of departure boards is just bizzare to me,almost like we are all liars.

 

[maniacmartin]

I should elaborate that I don't claim Delay Repay on trains I do not travel on, but if I have a suspicion the train I'm actually boarding may well incur a delay I'll take the picture. This can be helpful if my ticket isn't a straightforward one and I am starting short etc as then I can prove I was at least at the stations I'm claiming for.

For example, a claim on a journey I made from Blackfriars to London Bridge was delayed by 34 minutes and I held a season from a station in deep in north London to a station deep in south London. Such a claim looks odd, so having evidence to back oneself up in case of a dispute arising is never a bad idea.

 

[Starmill]

Oh, so little trust.

I thought this might be a no-hoper but I was hoping I wouldn't have to say this. When circumstances permit I'll give full details if that will satisfy you that neither I nor anyone else is trying to evade fares or claim fraudulent compensation. Gosh.
Hence this is, I think, an appropriate forum.

 

[telstarbox]

It's not about trust, but sometimes the "station A" and "local TOC B" approach can make things a lot harder to understand than just saying what happened, and can mean that local knowledge can't be applied.

Unless you've evaded a fare (which I'm sure you haven't) then where's the harm in being specific?

 

[Clip]

It's not about trust, but sometimes the "station A" and "local TOC B" approach can make things a lot harder to understand than just saying what happened, and can mean that local knowledge can't be applied.

Unless you've evaded a fare (which I'm sure you haven't) then where's the harm in being specific?

Exactly.

Now if you were looking for some obscure tickets to reduce your fare then I really would say keep that off the forum and hit up some people via PM as we all know what can happen to those routes but this sort of thread really needs the locations for proper, thought out answers.

 

[cuccir]

The thing is, you're describing a very specific situation. It's not like there's a rulebook with all of these possible situations imagined in them. So there's not a set of procedures we can refer to. Hence making it easier to have at least the line and stations in question!

Edit - and you've not asked what outcome you're looking for. Do you want to know how a passenger would ensure reaching their destination ASAP? Or how, the day after the journey, the passenger might complain?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The thing is, you're describing a very specific situation. It's not like there's a rulebook with all of these possible situations imagined in them. So there's not a set of procedures we can refer to. Hence making it easier to have at least the line and stations in question!

Edit - and you've not asked what outcome you're looking for. Do you want to know how a passenger would ensure reaching their destination ASAP? Or how, the day after the journey, the passenger might complain?

starmill seems to be asking for some precision in our answers:

How much of a case against TOC A does the passenger have for this delay?

that seems to anticipate a financial claim of sorts, though which scheme of compensation would be considered depends on the specific TOC.

I can't agree that a very specific situation is described, as there are still too many variables undefined. I'm used to working from a large number of certain facts to an estimation of as small a number of possible outcomes as possible.

Here, we are being asked about a single outcome from a range of possible and hypothetical prior facts.

 

[island]

Oh, so little trust.

I thought this might be a no-hoper but I was hoping I wouldn't have to say this. When circumstances permit I'll give full details if that will satisfy you that neither I nor anyone else is trying to evade fares or claim fraudulent compensation. Gosh.
Hence this is, I think, an appropriate forum.

It is certainly an appropriate forum, but you give yourself little help by claiming a situation is hypothetical when it is not.

 

[30907]

I'm just curious to work out which services and stations fits the description.

The remote Scottish and Welsh routes don't fit, nor does Newquay.
This leaves Leeds-Morecambe and Middlesborough-Whitby.

Carnforth and Middlesborough fit the description of the station (Lancaster has 3 TOCs).

End of Sherlock mode.

 

[Starmill]

I'm cautious because the 'investigation' entails something else which happened of which details really shouldn't emerge. There's no risk in giving away details about the subject of the thread, but I don't really want to until the matter is concluded. I could have left posting the thread until then, but I would have forgotten the details I think, and besides now I've got you all puzzling

 

[jon0844]

I take photographs of the departure boards whenever I take a FCC service in London which is not running on time (which is pretty much every journey with them). I have loads and loads of photos of departure boards...

Not all of the trains ARE late though. It's down to many services being shown at different times on the working and public timetables.

There are many services from Hatfield to London, for example, where the departure boards show a train as departing a minute or two before it's due to arrive/leave. IF a train is fortunate enough to get there early, it will have to wait until the working timetable departure time (no doubt making passengers angry).

If it arrives on time, the screens will show a delay - also making passengers angry I'm sure (or certainly helping to convince them that most trains are late - which, to be fair, do look that way some of the time).

Rather than take photos of every screen, you're probably better off looking at a site realtimetrains.co.uk from your phone, and if necessary take a screen grab of that. It will then show a lot more detail and perhaps lower your blood pressure!

 

[pally]

Regarding jcollins story, this is exactly why I get annoyed about garbled announcements. Every announcement is important particularly when you don't travel on that route frequently and therefore don't know what to expect.
I wish that all announcers would take their work more seriously.

 

[causton]

Not all of the trains ARE late though. It's down to many services being shown at different times on the working and public timetables.

There are many services from Hatfield to London, for example, where the departure boards show a train as departing a minute or two before it's due to arrive/leave. IF a train is fortunate enough to get there early, it will have to wait until the working timetable departure time (no doubt making passengers angry).

And those trains that *are* timed to be there at the same time get delayed in the Welwyn area anyway due to waiting for something else faster to go over the Welwyn Viaduct first
...then again, I have had the xx06/xx36 services arrive at Hatfield perfectly on time when returning from Kings Cross, so the return journey isn't as excusable as they always seem to match the WTT and the PTT!

 

[Greenback]

It is certainly an appropriate forum, but you give yourself little help by claiming a situation is hypothetical when it is not.

I agree. starmill, if this is not a hypothetical incident, but it is a post-travel dispute, this is the appropriate forum. But we do nee dspecific details to be able to give proper advice.

I am going to close this thread, but it remains open to you to post again, with full details, in this forum, or to discuss hypothetical journeys and cheap fares in the Fares Advice forum if you so wish.