Being advised a wrong route by Virgin?

[Stonesourscotty]

My friend commutes Orrell-Warrington not everyday mind you just once in every while and the virgin staff at Bank Quay keep advising him to catch trains to Liverpool and change there is this the usual Virgin incompetence at Bank quay or are they simply trying to get him to travel to Orrell park (a area on merseyside) he keeps getting in arguments there saying you go via wigan but i can't see why any competent staff would advise via liverpool?

 

[sheff1]

For some reason the only fares listed between Orrell & Warrington are routed 'via Liverpool'.

This seems very strange as (i) the shortest route, by a large margin, is via Wigan & (ii) travelling via Liverpool would require at least three changes (four, or a walk, if using Bank Quay rather than Central in Warrington).

 

[kieron]

For some reason the only fares listed between Orrell & Warrington are routed 'via Liverpool'.

If Warrington-Orrell fares are all "via Liverpool", Stonesourscotty's friend should consider buying some other valid ticket.

Glazebrook-Orrell (route METROLINK CTLZ) and Earlestown-Rainford (route ANY PERMITTED) are both quite cheap, and Northern Rail will happily give itineraries via Warrington and Wigan for each. You are allowed to stop and start at intermediary stations on any ticket sold for either route.

 

[maniacmartin]

This isn't incompetance by the staff at Warrington BQ. The only through tickets are only valid via Liverpool. Given your friend regularly buys these tickets, he might want to take a moment to read the route that will be printed on them, which explicitly says via Liverpool.

There is no obligation for the staff to search for other tickets with other destinations such as Glazebrook which may be valid (and to do so would probably violate the TSA anyway), but they have to sell them if your friend explicitly requests such a ticket.

The best I'd expect a clerk to do if your friend made clear he didn't want to go via Liverpool is to offer a split ticket at Wigan

 

[telstarbox]

Does the 'via Liverpool' mean that the shortest route is not a valid route?

 

[kieron]

Does the 'via Liverpool' mean that the shortest route is not a valid route?

Yes. It's one of the routes with no "any permitted" tickets so this sort of thing can happen. There are mapped routes from Warrington to Orrell via Liverpool, but none of them use the WCML.

I'm sure there's a reason why the staff Stonesourscotty's friend spoke to didn't suggest splitting at Wigan (which would be cheaper than a through ticket anyway), but it's hard to tell without knowing what discussion took place or who he discussed it with.

 

[island]

I'm sure there's a reason why the staff Stonesourscotty's friend spoke to didn't suggest splitting at Wigan (which would be cheaper than a through ticket anyway), but it's hard to tell without knowing what discussion took place or who he discussed it with.

Staff don't need to suggest splits, and some TOCs actively discourage doing so.

 

[maniacmartin]

Staff don't need to suggest splits, and some TOCs actively discourage doing so.

What should they do if a passenger explicitly states that they wish to travel via Wigan then? There are no appropriate through tickets

 

[island]

In that situation, as in the case of any other journey requiring two tickets, the staff member should sell the appropriate multiple tickets.

 

[yorkie]

It's actually cheaper to split at Wigan!

If a passenger insists on going via Wigan they should be advised of, and sold, a combination of tickets Warrington <> Wigan & Wigan <> Orrell.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Thanks for the advice. is there any way of getting the anomaly sorted out?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There is, but given splits are cheaper it may not be worth doing (in fact I'd say it would be counter-productive).

 

[Gathursty]

I had a slight issue several months ago when asking for a cycle reservation on a returning Virgin service at Warrington Bank Quay with my New Lane to Ellesmere Port return (Any permitted). I was asked to buy a replacement ticket as my ticket was priced by Merseyrail and so I should go through Liverpool. Apparently it satisfies the three-mile route going my way so go figure...

 

[323235]

who sets the fare is irrelevant and does not determine validity on its own.

 

[kieron]

who sets the fare is irrelevant and does not determine validity on its own.

The likelihood that Gathursty could not produce an itinerary from a web site involving the train in question (as Ellesmere Port-Helsby has 4tpd) is also irrelevant. It all makes it that bit more harder to explain, though.

 

[Gathursty]

True about the awkwardness of the journey but I did break my journey on the return at Helsby before continuing an hour or two later. I didn't purchase an advance ticket so I assume (rightly or wrongly?) the ticket is valid whenever but obviously the Helsby-Ellesmere Port section is valid in a narrow band of times.

Need to restock my cans of worms now.

 

[bb21]

I believe that these are the numbers you are looking for.

[Table 82] New Lane - Southport: 6.5 miles
[Table 103] Southport - Liverpool Central: 19 miles
[Table 106] Liverpool Central - Hooton: 10 miles
[Table 106] Hooton - Ellesmere Port: 4 miles
Total: 39.5 miles

[Table 82] New Lane - Wigan Wallgate: 11 miles
[Table 65] Wigan North Western - Warrington Bank Quay: 11.75 miles
[Table 81] Warrington Bank Quay - Helsby: 10.75 miles
[Table 109] Helsby - Ellesmere Port: 5.25 miles
Total: 38.75 miles

So your proposed route is actually shorter than the shortest route entirely by rail.