Beijing to Pyongyang

[First class]

Hi all,

I've just about booked a two week trip to Beijing in June 2011 flying from Liverpool via Amsterdam.

I was originally going to sample Beijing-Shanghai by rail, but I found there was a sleeper rail link between Beijing and Pyongyang (North Korea).

Foreigners seem to encounter all sorts of difficulties with this route, but I am determined to use it and visit North Korea as an individual, (don't really fancy those expensive group tours).

I only want to spend maybe 1-2 nights in Pyongyang, so I would get the 17:30 Wednesday sleeper from Beijing and arrive the next day at 19:30, spend a couple of nights there, then get the 10:10 sleeper back to Beijing.

1) Anyone ever done this route?
2) Any idea how to book this sleeper individually?
3) Anyone got any pictures of the train itself or the stations in Pyongyang?
4) Any other routes in China (from Beijing) worth sampling?

Thanks!!

 

[jamesontheroad]

Foreigners seem to encounter all sorts of difficulties with this route, but I am determined to use it and visit North Korea as an individual, (don't really fancy those expensive group tours).

Tough. The DPRK does not accept independent foreign travellers; you must be in a recognised tour group, although that tour group can be as small as one. You need to make your travel arrangements through an agency or operator or who have agreements in place with the state run tourism authorities there. Once you arrive in Pyongyang, even if you are on your own, at least one, usually two North Korean guides will be with you at all times. You'll also have a driver. Travelling in a group will bring the cost down substantially, because tourists are always supervised by guides. You need to be there for a bit longer to build up the trust needed to sneak off on your own.

Koryo Tours are London and Beijing based and can arrange Independent (i.e. non-group) tours. Clicky clicky. Others (which I know less about) are listed here. You will also need a visa, which will only be issued once you have booked a package with a recongised tour agency.

 

[monkey]

...this travelogue by a rather jolly sounding austrian might interest you. he took the direct train between moscow and pyongyang (which foreigners technically aren't allowed to use), so its not exactly relevant to going from beijing, but still interesting...

edit: ....another travelogue here, more relevant to going from beijing...

 

[Nightrider]

Good luck with the trip.
Wish it was me.

:cry:

 

[DiscoStu]

I'm also planning on doing North Korea, except I'll be going via the Trans-Siberian to Beijing before joining a tour group (which you HAVE to do if you wish the enter the country).

Let us know how you get on, because I'd love to hear what it was like before I go!

 

[First class]

Thanks for the links and other information. Very helpful.

It would appear that me and the mrs can travel from Beijing to North Korea for 4 nights, out by plane, return by train for about £1200 each which considering the type of place N.Korea is, I think is a bargain, and certainly an interesting passport stamp to collect.

It is a real shame that no real pictures exist of the sleeper train(s) or the metro system in Pyongyang. I aim to correct that when I visit next summer. I hear a few backhanders/gestures can earn you extra 'trust' from the guides.

By the way, this is sort of based on 'Axis of Evil' a book detailing travel through Iraq, Iran and North Korea, which I intend to do myself... maybe just not for a few more years for Iraq anyway...

 

[monkey]

^^theres loads of pictures on that first travelogue I linked you to, both of the direct moscow - pyongyang train the guy took on the way there (the so called "illegal" route) and the pyongyang-beijing train he took on the way back (just go to near the end of the travelogue and you'll see those ones)...

edit: also theres quite a lot of pics of the pyongyang metro on their as well, more infor at this>> http://www.pyongyang-metro.com/ website too.

 

[mickey]

By the way, this is sort of based on 'Axis of Evil' a book detailing travel through Iraq, Iran and North Korea, which I intend to do myself... maybe just not for a few more years for Iraq anyway...

Funnily enough, this is something I've always thought I'd like to do - there's something alluring about the countries we're not supposed to like.
Anyway, I look forward to hearing more about it when it's complete.

Incidentally, there's a travel agency in Wigan (with online presence) that specialises in trips to NK - I've heard favourable reviews so it's possibly worth a try?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Funnily enough, this is something I've always thought I'd like to do - there's something alluring about the countries we're not supposed to like.

Britain and Iran don't really have any beef with one another - it's mainly the US. BMI flies daily to Tehran, I think; they had some very attractive sale offers last week. It's technically possible to travel London / Tehran by train via Turkey as well (seat61.com has the skinny). Was thinking of doing a one-way train / one-way plane journey some time.

 

[mickey]

Britain and Iran don't really have any beef with one another - it's mainly the US. BMI flies daily to Tehran, I think; they had some very attractive sale offers last week. It's technically possible to travel London / Tehran by train via Turkey as well (seat61.com has the skinny). Was thinking of doing a one-way train / one-way plane journey some time.

I don't doubt that it's easy enough to get there (Iran Air also goes from Heathrow, and Turkish Airlines usually has good fares from both London and Manchester), or that they'll readily give you a visa, but now is not the time to go to Iran. There have been quite a few diplomatic spats recently and as such it would be inadvisable to travel right now as a Brit, particularly if you want to travel round the country a bit. I have a couple of very good Iranian friends who have promised to give me some pointers when I do go, but they very strongly 'hinted' it would be wise to wait a while to allow the recent cult of suspicion to die down a little.

 

[route101]

Intersesting thread . Not sure if i fancy north korea tho . Im sure ive seen Iranian reg trucks in the UK so there must be trade with Iran

 

[jamesontheroad]

If you do go to Pyongyang, you can choose to pick up your visa in the UK or China. If you choose the former, you'll get to visit one of the strangest foreign embassies in London!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4978312.stm

 

[mickey]

If you do go to Pyongyang, you can choose to pick up your visa in the UK or China. If you choose the former, you'll get to visit one of the strangest foreign embassies in London!

You'll also get a proper visa - the ones they give out in Beijing are on flimsy bits of paper, not an exciting one stuck in your passport.

 

[Wyvern]

Dom Joly has written a book about his holidays in places like Iran, Chernobul and North Korea.

The Dark Tourist: Sightseeing in the World's Most Unlikely Holiday Destinations To be published tomorrow 2 Sept). Was on BBC Breakfast this morning.

Amazon description

 

[Nightrider]

Im sure ive seen Iranian reg trucks in the UK

They weren,t by any chance carrying parts for a big cannon.

 

[route101]

Yeah maybe they are . Pretty far for a truck to come from. Now China is a place to i would like to go or the Far East , maybe one day

 

[Wyvern]

Yeah maybe they are . Pretty far for a truck to come from. Now China is a place to i would like to go or the Far East , maybe one day

Trucks have been travelling back and forth across Europe and Asia since at least the eighties.

There was a book called Cola Cowboys by Franklyn Wood about trucking from England to Saudi Arabia and onwards. I'd just come back from Saudi so I found it particularly interesting.

I'm pretty certain some went from near me at Little Eaton. I dont know whether they still do.

 

[Nightrider]

Trucks have been travelling back and forth across Europe and Asia since at least the eighties.

There was a book called Cola Cowboys by Franklyn Wood about trucking from England to Saudi Arabia and onwards. I'd just come back from Saudi so I found it particularly interesting.

I'm pretty certain some went from near me at Little Eaton. I dont know whether they still do.

Anyword on how the Saudi railway expansion programme is progressing.

 

[Wyvern]

Sorry. It was around 1980 I was out there.

 

[djh1986]

Fascinating trip, would be keen to hear how you go on but I would imagine it will be tough and you won't have a moment to yourself once across the border apart from in your hotel room in Pyongyang.

I'd also be intrigued as to if they let you look out of the windows once across the border given the torrid conditions parts of the country are allegedly in.

 

[Drsatan]

Fascinating trip, would be keen to hear how you go on but I would imagine it will be tough and you won't have a moment to yourself once across the border apart from in your hotel room in Pyongyang.

I'd also be intrigued as to if they let you look out of the windows once across the border given the torrid conditions parts of the country are allegedly in.

From what I've read photography is only permitted in certain areas: effectively anywhere which doesn't give an indication that NK is a failed state. These include: people dying in the street, oxen hauling carts while tractors lie rusting in fields, orphaned children wandering around, women washing clothes in rivers etc.

However, photos and videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITBqRSMBWaM) of the 'real' NK which your tour guides would prefer you not to observe are available.

Watch the aforementioned video and more. Then you'll see that NK makes Zimbabwe look like paradise.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I'd also be intrigued as to if they let you look out of the windows once across the border given the torrid conditions parts of the country are allegedly in.

The windows will not be obscured. The 'corridor' along the Beijing - Pyongyang railway is allegedly kept very tidy and well maintained for that very reason. The Vienna - Pyongyang travelogue was particularly interesting because they got to see the bits not normally shown to foreigners. The towns were very modest, no cars, no machinery in the fields. Stations and public buildings kept immaculately clean and - most bizarrely (see this pic for an example) railway ballast was always edged with a neat line of white stones! This matches the DPRK tradition of painting in white the bottom 50cm of tree trunks alongside roads, to help visibility / safety at night on unlit roads with no cats eyes.