Behaviour of bus enthusiasts at bus events recently.

[stadler]

What is going on with the behaviour of bus enthusiasts at events recently. Just last Sunday there was a bus running day at Godstone and around the Surrey and Sussex and Kent border areas and i have never seen such appalling behaviour in my life. It was not just a couple people but at least twenty or more people behaving in such an uncivilised manner.

People pushing and shoving each other to get on buses. People throwing tins of food and bags of food over the sides of open top buses. People loudly shouting and screaming on the buses and arguing with each other.

Some videos here that are widely circulating on social media showing people acting like animals:

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View attachment 5c292ce6-2c82-4fa6-ad12-9526d522d0aa.mov

Video 1 (Above): A group of people shoving and pushing each other to try and be the first on the bus.

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Video 2 (Above): A group of people pushing and trying to force the doors open to get on the bus.

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View attachment Untitled_video_1.mov

Video 3 (Above): Someone emptying and throwing a tin of baked beans over the side of the bus.

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Video 4 (Above): Someone throwing a bag of sweets in to the air and over the side of the bus.

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Photo 5 (Above): An article in a recent edition of Coach Bus Week magazine above the recent Godstone bus running day.

THE LAST STOP

Disgraceful

On Monday 14 July, my (the Editor's) attention was drawn to some videos circulating online from the 'low floor' running day the day before. That very same day, as a good few people will have spotted, I was being gainfully employed at another classic bus event in glorious sunshine at the opposite end of the country, ending the day as always with the satisfaction of being able to reverse park an articulated bus in one move...

Meanwhile, the videos showed some rather abhorrent behaviour taking place 'down south' which I'm sure the organisers of that event will be horrified to see, as no doubt were those whose buses were in use. My colleague Maxson Goh was there, and will no doubt have more to say on the positive side of things in next week's issue. But I do believe that those responsible for such things need 'calling out' for it.

Now I'm very aware that CBW isn't an 'enthusiast' publication, though I'm also conscious that we do have a larger enthusiast following on social media, and that many within the industry are attendees at such events, often taking along their own, or their company's, preserved buses.

One video clip I saw shows a scrum of people trying to board a bus, shoving others in front of them against the closed doors, before the driver had even pulled up properly and opened them. It might be a rare bus. It might be a classic. It might be different. But I'm sorry, that's no excuse. Far worse was the video of an 'enthusiast' (apparently) opening a can of what looked like baked beans on the top deck of an open- top bus and pouring it over the side.

The video doesn't show who or what was below, but I think it's safe to assume he wasn't aiming at some hedgerows. Words fail me. The clip isn't long enough to show what, if any, action was taken against him; I'd like to think that it would have been 'four bells' from any industry professional sitting nearby and a word with the driver. I'd like to think that individual was removed immediately. I don't know as I write this whether the driver was aware; it's unlikely he or she would have seen what was happening from the cab. I do know that had I been behind the wheel, he'd have been treated no differently to a misbehaving passenger on any regular service bus. Being an enthusiast doesn't grant a special licence to do as you please or ignore the rules.

Why would anyone think this was acceptable?

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These are grown adults behaving even more immature than primary school kids. Even animals in the zoo behave better than this. Most of them are in their twenties so they really ought to know better.

It was some of the worst behaviour that i have ever seen at a bus event. But worrying this seems to be getting more and more common. I have noticed in recent years there seems to be more and more enthusiasts unable to behave in a civilised manner.

It brings the question of what should be done about it. How do you stop this. Of course there are lots of polite well mannered civilised people who attend too but these lot just ruin it for everyone else.

 

[alex397]

I don’t often attend some bus events now because of people like this. It’s not just some of those from the younger generation but some older members can be also very rude and abusive.
It tends to be the London and surrounding area events that have the issues, and particularly with the low-floor vehicles.

I’m not sure how easy it would be to police such events. For example, making these events ticketed events has its various issues with licensing etc. Though I know some vehicle owners do have another part-owner or friend on board which helps with behaviour

 

[Bishopstone]

Are the miscreants generally bus enthusiasts (so called), or local troublemakers who’ve heard there’s something unusual going on, for free, and ‘crash’ the event to cause distress?

 

[NCT]

I was at this event.

I think some mutual understanding and respect is needed. While some of the behaviour should rightly be called out, I can't help but detect there's a certain so-and-so ism going on.

 

[alex397]

Are the miscreants generally bus enthusiasts (so called), or local troublemakers who’ve heard there’s something unusual going on, for free, and ‘crash’ the event to cause distress?

Many of them are familiar faces who appear at various events around the London area, so I presume they are enthusiasts.

 

[Towers]

Is this a modern, bus equivalent of the infamous diesel bashers of yesteryear, known for their ‘antics’?! Indeed some of them continue to behave poorly at heritage events now.

Sadly this will come back on event organisers, arguably moreso than it might on a railway as it involves perceived unsafe behaviour on the public road network. If a random member of the public is hit by items being thrown from a road vehicle then there is potential aggro for both the bus owner/operator and those responsible for the event as a whole, and if the authorities were to get involved then by far their easiest response is to just cancel any future events. That’s a deeply sad outcome for everyone.

Unfortunately some people not only are absolute morons but are also very selfish with it. It’s deeply sad when people cannot even partake in a respectable, even typically rather ‘nerdy’ hobby without being absolute idiots about it. They’re unwelcome in the bus enthusast community, no doubt just as they would be in most other places with that sort of behaviour, and the best hope is that they find somewhere else to expend their energies.

 

[nick291]

Yup, this is why I've stopped going to events now pretty much. Minority ruining it for the majority.

 

[overthewater]

I know there a scrum some time but there still tends to be some good manners about while doing it. Why would you thrown Bake beans of the side of a bus? If that was anyone else they would be thrown off the bus.

Alas It going to happen, at some point and events will get called off and the police will get called. I just Hope it doesn't happen in Glasgow.. I dare someone will deffo get Glasgow kiss..

 

[bramling]

What is going on with the behaviour of bus enthusiasts at events recently. Last sunday there was a bus running day at Godstone and around the Surrey and Sussex and Kent border areas and i have never seen such appalling behaviour in my life. It was not just a couple people but at least twenty or more people behaving in such an uncivilised manner.

People pushing and shoving each other to get on buses. People throwing tins of food and bags of food over the sides of open top buses. People loudly shouting and screaming on the buses and arguing with each other.

Some videos here that are widely circulating on social media showing people acting like animals:

View attachment 184227

View attachment 184228

View attachment 184229

View attachment 184230

View attachment 184231

These are grown adults behaving even more immature than primary school kids. Even animals in the zoo behave better than this. Most of them are in their twenties so they really ought to know better.

It was some of the worst behaviour that i have ever seen at a bus event. But worrying this seems to be getting more and more common. I have noticed in recent years there seems to be more and more enthusiasts unable to behave in a civilised manner.

It brings the question of what should be done about it. How do you stop this. Of course there are lots of polite well mannered civilised people who attend too but these lot just ruin it for everyone else.

Unfortunately standards of behaviour in public settings have really deteriorated in recent years, so to at least some extent what is described is likely to reflect a wider trend.

Cooping people up in various ways as part of the Covid response has probably expedited this trend.

I see it in my local gym, there’s some people who just have zero idea how to conduct themselves at all. It seems to be two age groups in particular - one being those in late teens / early 20s (ie those who would have been finishing their school years during lockdown), and 50-60 somethings (more likely to have shielded / extended working from home?).

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Unfortunately this behaviour seemingly occurs in lots of walks of life. Instead of filming it and then discussing it online why do people not speak directly to the perpetrators at the time? The (possibly over simplistic) answer is that people are now scared of the consequences of doing so.

 

[Bishopstone]

I expect, in some cases (I don’t say all, or even most), these are boys or young men on the autistic spectrum who - through lack of boundary setting - have been led to believe that their diagnosis can excuse poor behaviour, which won’t have consequences.

The stampede towards the bus door speaks of obsessive over-excitement, which is addressable with time and care.

 

[Towers]

I expect, in some cases (I don’t say all, or even most), these are boys or young men on the autistic spectrum who - through lack of boundary setting - have been led to believe that their diagnosis can excuse poor behaviour, which won’t have consequences.

The stampede towards the bus door speaks of obsessive over-excitement, which is addressable with time and care.

That did occur, but it’s also deeply important not to allow stereotypes to lead to being judgemental, nor to allow any conditions which might exist to excuse blatantly unacceptable behaviours. The idiocy of lobbing items from the top deck of an open topper might be a sign that some sort of stewarding is needed on such vehicles; indeed this already happens at some events on vehicles of all sorts.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The behaviour at a previous Low-ish Floor Running Day was the reason I said to myself I’d never attend (or offer a bus) to a future one, and having seen reports from last weekend I’m glad I’ve stuck by it!

Thankfully most events I do attend and/or take buses to don’t seem to attract this level of behaviour, but I do still now secure the entrance doors if leaving the bus unattended on display or on layover. These events do tend to be slightly - but not massively - further out of London and to know vehicle allocations requires the purchase of a programme rather than being made freely available. They do tend to have a lesser number of more modern low-floor vehicles too. I don’t know if these factors together have any relevance on why they seem to attract less trouble though.

 

[GusB]

Unfortunately this behaviour seemingly occurs in lots of walks of life. Instead of filming it and then discussing it online why do people not speak directly to the perpetrators at the time? The (possibly over simplistic) answer is that people are now scared of the consequences of doing so.

You've answered your own question. While people complaining in a public space isn't neccesarily a new thing (we used to write letters for publication in the local newspaper), discussing matters directly with the perpetrators may result in an unfavourable outcome for the complainant and I completely understand why people don't want to get involved.

By filming such behaviour, at least there's some record and the police can deal with matters if they think there's sufficient evidence.

I was at this event.

I think some mutual understanding and respect is needed. While some of the behaviour should rightly be called out, I can't help but detect there's a certain so-and-so ism going on.

What is the "certain so-and-so ism" that you refer to? Would you mind explaining?

 

[Hyebone]

I expect, in some cases (I don’t say all, or even most), these are boys or young men on the autistic spectrum who - through lack of boundary setting - have been led to believe that their diagnosis can excuse poor behaviour, which won’t have consequences.

The stampede towards the bus door speaks of obsessive over-excitement, which is addressable with time and care.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[The exile]

Unfortunately standards of behaviour in public settings have really deteriorated in recent years, so to at least some extent what is described is likely to reflect a wider trend.

Cooping people up in various ways as part of the Covid response has probably expedited this trend.

I see it in my local gym, there’s some people who just have zero idea how to conduct themselves at all. It seems to be two age groups in particular - one being those in late teens / early 20s (ie those who would have been finishing their school years during lockdown), and 50-60 somethings (more likely to have shielded / extended working from home?).

Unfortunately self-centred individualism has been officially encouraged for so long that many aspects of it are now almost “taken as read” - even by people who would consider themselves to be (and in many respects are) models of social responsibility.

 

[Martin1988]

Personally at all the events I've been to everyone has queued to board as would be expected.

I've never been aware of any instances where people have been pushing in or where there has been a big scrum to board vehicles even with those who are possibly on the spectrum or have other learning difficulties.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Unfortunately self-centred individualism has been officially encouraged for so long that many aspects of it are now almost “taken as read” - even by people who would consider themselves to be (and in many respects are) models of social responsibility.

When the Prime Minister is lauded for saying there is no such thing as society, who can be surprised when people take her at her word?

I think some mutual understanding and respect is needed. While some of the behaviour should rightly be called out, I can't help but detect there's a certain so-and-so ism going on.

I think it's more nuanced than that.

I- a fully paid-up member of the tofu-eating wokerati- couldn't help but notice the predominant characteristics of the people pushing and shoving and throwing beans out of the bus. I don't necessarily think it is a coincidence; there is a definite cultural problem in some communities where boys and young men are untouchable in a family.

The (possibly over simplistic) answer is that people are now scared of the consequences of doing so.

People who are prepared to throw beans out of a bus- either at pedestrians or with no regard to whether pedestrians get hit- are just as likely to throw beans at me. And, if they did, nobody would come to my aid, they'd all look the other way.

It's just not worth getting involved anymore.

 

[yorksrob]

Where's Blakey when you need him !

 

[Andyh82]

When I was an young enthusiast about 20 years ago it felt like I was entering a grown up world, whether that was at events or on the internet via the old yahoo groups, or forums like this one. So you had to behave in a grown up fashion or be slapped down.

Now young enthusiasts can discuss their hobby via the social media channels they always use, with people of the same age, so won’t face any restrictions, and therefore it’s not surprising it spills out into the real world.

Previously any marshals might have only been there to do stuff like help buses reverse into parking areas, and would often be quiet retired men. Now it seems events might have to start using proper security personnel like any other general non bus event would do.

 

[The exile]

When the Prime Minister is lauded for saying there is no such thing as society, who can be surprised when people take her at her word?

Indeed - the irony being that the worst examples I’ve experienced personally have been from people who would consider themselves to be the antithesis of that woman.

 

[Martin1988]

A number of years ago I went on a depot tour organised by an enthusiasts group and a few of the attendees seemed quite content to engage in behaviours such as forcing the doors open on parked up buses and having a look inside. Remember being rather shocked at that at the time that anyone would do that. Remember the organiser/driver telling everyone at the start of the trip to 'behave themselves' and to leave unattended buses alone but a few individuals on the trip for whatever reason ignored that instruction.

That Isle Of Wight Beer and Buses event is one that stuck out in my mind as one which had the most potential for anti social behaviour given that the nature of the event involved touring pubs and drinking. I've always been intrigued as to what would have happened if there had been an incident on board one of those participating vehicles and whether the driver would have been responsible for meeting the cost of damage/repairs?

Also not anti social behaviour as such but remember one event where we were told there was going to be 'a trip to a depot' and a load of enthusiasts boarded expecting it to be a trip inside the depot to walk around and take photos when in reality it was just a trip to the outside of the depot and a member of staff on duty at the time made clear nobody was supposed to go in. It could have been quite awkward if a bus load of enthusiasts had gone and stormed the depot though thinking they had been invited to

I did hear suggestions that the organisers of that event got into a bit of hot water over that 'depot trip'.

 

[WibbleWobble]

A number of years ago I went on a depot tour organised by an enthusiasts group and a few of the attendees seemed quite content to engage in behaviours such as forcing the doors open on parked up buses and having a look inside. Remember being rather shocked at that at the time that anyone would do that. Remember the organiser/driver telling everyone at the start of the trip to 'behave themselves' and to leave unattended buses alone but a few individuals on the trip for whatever reason ignored that instruction.

Not just younger people though. A friend took a bus to a rally last year and had to stop an old guy from opening the doors (which were closed whilst he went for lunch) and getting on.

The old guy's response was "What's the point of bringing it then if I can't get on?"

The bus is there for display, and the doors would have been closed for a reason! You wouldn't go to a car show and climb into someone's old car or Ferrari without their permission so why is a bus any different?

 

[yorkie]

How very odd.

Unfortunately this behaviour seemingly occurs in lots of walks of life. Instead of filming it and then discussing it online why do people not speak directly to the perpetrators at the time?

Firstly, the two are not mutually exclusive and certainly gathering evidence is important. However, not everyone is prepared to approach wrongdoers and challenge them. If you've done it, you will know that some people can become abusive when challenged on breaking the rules, even if you approach them politely.

The (possibly over simplistic) answer is that people are now scared of the consequences of doing so.

Sometimes people are scared, but they may simply not want the confrontation. I'll confront people if I feel in the right frame of mind and if I think it's not too dangerous to do so, but the last couple of times I have challenged anti-social behaviour, I got negative reactions, so I can see why a lot of people choose not to do this.

 

[nick291]

Not just younger people though. A friend took a bus to a rally last year and had to stop an old guy from opening the doors (which were closed whilst he went for lunch) and getting on.

The old guy's response was "What's the point of bringing it then if I can't get on?"

How hard is it to ask for permission to look inside the bus? Some people. I've been to a few Bristol Vintage Bus Group events where the doors of one or two buses have been left open, I take that to mean I can freely look around but I always ask beforehand as I don't want to get in trouble.

 

[43066]

What is going on with the behaviour of bus enthusiasts at events recently. Last sunday there was a bus running day at Godstone and around the Surrey and Sussex and Kent border areas and i have never seen such appalling behaviour in my life. It was not just a couple people but at least twenty or more people behaving in such an uncivilised manner.

People pushing and shoving each other to get on buses. People throwing tins of food and bags of food over the sides of open top buses. People loudly shouting and screaming on the buses and arguing with each other.

Some videos here that are widely circulating on social media showing people acting like animals:

View attachment 184227

View attachment 184228

View attachment 184229

View attachment 184230

View attachment 184231

These are grown adults behaving even more immature than primary school kids. Even animals in the zoo behave better than this. Most of them are in their twenties so they really ought to know better.

It was some of the worst behaviour that i have ever seen at a bus event. But worrying this seems to be getting more and more common. I have noticed in recent years there seems to be more and more enthusiasts unable to behave in a civilised manner.

It brings the question of what should be done about it. How do you stop this. Of course there are lots of polite well mannered civilised people who attend too but these lot just ruin it for everyone else.

Extraordinary. A group of people who actually manage to make railway enthusiasts look normal!

 

[Forty29]

Disgraceful behaviour. The driver in the first video surely had the right to keep the doors closed and drive off, or to stop the bus with the hooligans throwing missiles and throw them off . I've never seen railway enthusiast's behaving like this on heritage lines.On the mainline in years past just overenthusiastic banter may have occurred. The antics of these so called bus ' enthusiast's ' is verging on criminal behaviour.

 

[Temple Meads]

I've attended a wide variety of different running days across the country in the past couple of years, and I can safely say that I've seen nothing like this sort of behaviour, which seems to be almost unique to this particular event.

 

[nick291]

I've attended a wide variety of different running days across the country in the past couple of years, and I can safely say that I've seen nothing like this sort of behaviour, which seems to be almost unique to this particular event.

I agree, more the South East/London area in general

 

[Trackman]

I've attended a wide variety of different running days across the country in the past couple of years, and I can safely say that I've seen nothing like this sort of behaviour, which seems to be almost unique to this particular event.

I'm puzzled too.
If this happened on a regular basis, these events wouldn't be held.