Beeching - What if....

[LE Greys]

Yes, they were doing alright. Infact they even worked out how to run a state owned railway. '
If they'd left it at that, and perhaps worked out how to gradually increase investment to match passenger growth, they might yet be remembered as the saviours of the railway.
But they didn't leave it at that.

Rail Archive comes up trumps again.
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=125

From 1991. This one is interesting. The author was looking at a very optimistic picture of rail growth over the next decade, such as the New Kent Main Line, a GWML stock replacement, the Networker Project, track upgrades throughout NSE, Thameslink 2000 (that's when it was supposed to happen), Crossrail (supposed to be finished now), Cross Country time savings, new and faster freight vehicles, hi-cube-compatible wagons and so on. There were good examples of the overall trends, costs per passenger-mile were coming down, rolling stock age was coming down, journeys were getting quicker, freight tonnage was going up and basically everything was running like a railway [lame pun].

Nice job breaking it, Mr Major!

 

[IanXC]

Not a chance - Snow Hill to Wolverhampton is almost entirely occupied by a tramway apart from the final section into Low Level station where it diverges to the City Centre.

I was thinking that there could be some other routing for the metro, however, could a Tram Train solution overcome this? Would it be possible to provide signalling to create enough paths?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Doncaster Barnsley is a long term goal of the SYPTE i blieve with the Xpress bus being a stop gap measure. I blieve the entire bed is in tact.

 

[CNX]

Waverley Route (Carlisle - Edinburgh)

Penrith - Workington

Tebay - Darlington via Barnard Castle

Oxford - Bletchley / Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge (unfortunately the latter will never be possible now that planning permission has been given to construct a boating lake on the trackbed at Willington)

Cambridge - Sudbury

Most of Tebay-Darlington was closed west of Tees Valley Junction in January 1962, well before the Beeching Plan. No chance of it being re-opened, at least as far as Kirkby Stephen, much as I would give anything to see it restored. The trackbed between Tebay and Ravenstonedale was covered with tarmac many years ago, hence why the A685 is so straight.

East of Kirkby Stephen, possibe but unlikely. Most of the trackbed is relatively intact, and, although it been obliterated for a short distance by the A66 at Stainmore Summit, and also at the west end of Bowes, neither are insurmountable problems. Then there's the matter of a few structures that would need to be rebuilt from scratch, such as the massive viaducts at Belah, which was the highest in England, nearby Mousegill, which was blown up by the army just for the hell of it, Deepdale, which was a smaller version of Belah, and the 732' long Tees Viaduct just west of Barnard Castle.

The Northern section of the Waverley Route is expected to re-open sometime in 2014.

Red tape is the biggest obstruction standing in the way of railway re-openings. It took a decade from the initial propsosal to restore the direct link between Huddersfield and Halifax/Bradford to the first train actually running, and that only involved the re-opening of two relatively short sections of mothballed line. It probably now takes far longer to carry out a risk assessment relating to a re-opening propsal than it did to build the thing from scratch in the first place. Then there's the pandering to the windmill and green welly brigade in the form of an environmental impact study. Progress? Not in my name!

Then there's Workington North. Amazing how quickly things can be done when there's a crisis. After you with the scissors.

 

[dcd]

I would vote for the Didcot Newbury and Southampton line to be reopened.It would be a good alternative to the A34

and what about the Sprat and Winkle Line also going North From Southampton it would give another route for Freightliners from the Maritime and also an extra diversionary line.

 

[furryfeet]

Cambridge - Sudbury.

I seem to remember that someone was trying to raise funds about 14 years ago for a pre-feasibilty study into the re-opening of this line, in full, or in part.
Did anything come of this ?

Has Network Rail, or anyone else, recently looked into re-opening Cambridge - Haverhill, seeing as Haverhill is one of the biggest towns in the country with no railway station.

 

[RobShipway]

Not a chance - Snow Hill to Wolverhampton is almost entirely occupied by a tramway apart from the final section into Low Level station where it diverges to the City Centre.

Could you not route the North Wales trains if they are starting from Paddington via Kidderminster?

You would also need to fasten the line speed of the single line that adjoins the line from Marylebone so that the time taken matches that of the line speed taken leaving Euston as well so that the arrival time in Holyhead could still be the same so that it arrives in tome for any Sailings to Ireland.

 

[tirphil]

Beeching wasn't a minister. The minister who ordered his report was Ernest Marples, owner of a large road-building company.

You are absolutely right Mickey. Sack cloth and ashes for me!!!

 

[The Planner]

I would vote for the Didcot Newbury and Southampton line to be reopened.It would be a good alternative to the A34

Except that very road sits on the trackbed now in various places.

 

[A0]

In fact Oxford-Bletchley was not identified by Beeching for closure. The line did close in December 1967 (towards the end of the Beeching Axe closures) which does often lead to some confusion.

There's a good explanation here of the closure process and the 'logic' behind it: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/index.shtml

On this one occasion Dr Beeching is not guilty! BR's management of the line (including the construction of the Bletchley White Elephant (flyover) is best described as incompetent...

Another one Beeching often gets the blame for incorrectly is the GC mainline from Aylesbury / Calvert - Nottingham / Sheffield. That one was also done by BR management - the Beeching report recommended it be retained as a secondary route.

 

[RobShipway]

Was the Cheltenham - Toddington line closed by beeching that is now used by the GWR - Gloucetshire Warwickshire Railway?

 

[w1bbl3]

Re: The early posts regarding Thornbury and Portishead...

I'm afraid to say that I don't believe Thornbury has a case. It isn't a particularly large town, and is in quite a remote location for a service to be extended there.

Thornbury would surely require a new station and new alignment as old has been built on beyond Tyherington quarry. IHMO the only way to serve Thornbury now would be a new connecting through spur linking Gloucester > Cam & Dursley > Thornbury > Yate > Bristol Parkway > Bristol Temple Meads. This would also need passing loops on thornbury section to maintain current Gloucester <> Bristol service frequencies, I'd guess a capital cost of £100m to £150m.

At least with Portishead the alignment and much of the track bed remains from Portbury dock junction onwards even then it's budgeted at £40m capital cost for 3 miles of track and resignalling the whole route.

 

[cymro inside]

sadly mrs castle was involved in a lot of closures in the late 60s,unprofitable lines were given a 1 2 or 3 year grant to keep them going and allegedly these were inflated because br was using some of the money to cross subsidise other operations so when spending cuts came in the late 60s out came the closure notices,if the pso grant system wherby there was one giant social network grant instead of a line by line system had come in c1967 instead of 1974 the following routes would still be open. fleetwood to kirkham , bangor to caernarfon, uckfield to lewes , hailsham to polegate,the whole of the east lincs network, stanley junction to kinnaber junction,the waverley,bude padstow ilfracombe minehead tavistock okehampton ,oxford to cambridge , st ives to cambridge, penrith to keswick, had the spectre of closure notices not being posted at regular intervals throughout the country some rail travellers might have defered buying their first car and car ownership might have been lower too,thus saving some rural bus services as well.

 

[Greenback]

sadly mrs castle was involved in a lot of closures in the late 60s,unprofitable lines were given a 1 2 or 3 year grant to keep them going and allegedly these were inflated because br was using some of the money to cross subsidise other operations so when spending cuts came in the late 60s out came the closure notices,if the pso grant system wherby there was one giant social network grant instead of a line by line system had come in c1967 instead of 1974 the following routes would still be open. fleetwood to kirkham , bangor to caernarfon, uckfield to lewes , hailsham to polegate,the whole of the east lincs network, stanley junction to kinnaber junction,the waverley,bude padstow ilfracombe minehead tavistock okehampton ,oxford to cambridge , st ives to cambridge, penrith to keswick, had the spectre of closure notices not being posted at regular intervals throughout the country some rail travellers might have defered buying their first car and car ownership might have been lower too,thus saving some rural bus services as well.

Some of the lines you mention there should never have been closed, and would have survived if they had managed to cling on for a bit longer, like the Kyle line for example.

It's also interesting how many of those routes have had long reopening campaigns.

 

[LE Greys]

Some of the lines you mention there should never have been closed, and would have survived if they had managed to cling on for a bit longer, like the Kyle line for example.

It's also interesting how many of those routes have had long reopening campaigns.

Too true.

 

[TukayAway]

We wouldn't be having these conversations now, if someone had the foresight to say that railway lines must not be built on and protected for 100 years after closure.

 

[ivanhoe]

The Beeching Cuts must be seen from a 1960's perspective rather than with the hindsight
of 2011. The railways were in a right mess, still making steam engines, totally inadequate stock and duplications of so many routes. You cannot ignore the changes that the new motorway network was bringing to peoples lives.
Yes , mistakes were made, but the network which had grown was no longer fit for purpose.

The real mistakes were in the slowness of the UK to build New High Speed Lines. Opening the Channel Tunnel without a dedicated High Speed Line .

Despite Beeching, by the 1970's, we had one of the best Passenger Networks in Europe. The failure to innovate and be pre- occupied with politically motivated Transport Policies has been more disasterous than whatever Beeching recommended.
s

 

[w1bbl3]

But BRB R&D did innovate as can be testified by APT and HSDT. APT in particular advanced the art of bogie design, vehicle aerodynamics, crash worthyness, body construction, high speed pantographs and in-cab signalling, much of which was capitalised upon by continental European high speed rail projects.

The basic problem is back in the late 60's and 70's the ministry was not prepared to fund construction of new high speed rail lines having just finished a major closure programme. I'm not sure what more BRB could have done to introduce 140mph+ high speed rail when funding was not available.

 

[Woody]

Review of Dr Beeching's Report The Reshaping of British Railways.
"Dr. Beeching's pronouncement that there is no sensible alternative to his plan must be challenged with the greatest vigour...

The Government's approach to the problem of creating a well-balanced inland transport system has been one-sided. Concentration on railways, which, as a complete unit is under ONE authority, who operates track, vehicle and load, whose accounts exact, up-to-date-accessible and visible to all, easy to analyse...

The Government's approach ignores the identical but more complicated and more serious problems of overall economic road transport deficits."
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=90
Quite clearly the railways were singled out by government for special attention at the expense of roads.Thats why we are where we are today transport wise in this country.