Beeching - What if....

[Masbroughlad]

Without doubt, some of the Beeching cut lines would have been profitable/provided a necessary service today.

Has any work ever been done on which lines would have been viable/could be re-opened?

Alternatively, if the lines had never been closed and the exercise was repeated today, how much would be cut?

I think there are a number of non rail linked towns that should still be on the network. Add to this a number of coastal resorts that definitely would still benefit from a rail link......

 

[Twoonthebuzzer]

Thornbury and Portishead are two that come to mind around my area! Both have working freight only lines for large parts of the route anyway, both only needing extensions into the respective towns!

 

[The Barlow Boy]

I'll second those two, it would save me £sss on the 378 bus from Brizzle.
There's much rose tinted stuff about what the great and good Doctor did how profitable was Dunton Green to Westerham or Kemble to Tetbury.

 

[steamybrian]

A number of lines and stations closed following the Beeching report of the 1963 have reopened as part of the National Rail Network. There are many examples particularly in South Wales and Central Scotland
Actively being planned for reopening at present are examples-the northern part of the Waverley Route in Scotland, Oxford- Bletchley, Plymouth-Tavistock and reopening Croxley Green branch. Kenilworth station
Recently ATOC produced a plan of reopening many other lines but under the present economic climate in my opinion it is more a "wish list".
I am often asked by non-enthusiasts what I thought of the 1963 Beeching Report and I accept there are many lines and stations that few passengers used ,were heavy loss makers and due for closure. There were many lines/ stations that were closed that should have been kept open as they were reasonably well used -some examples are mentioned above. In my view there are many other "closure mistakes" such as York-Hull (via Market Weighton), Uckfield- Lewes, Skipton-Colne and the whole of the Waverley Route all of which are long abandoned but just maybe in the future....?
I am not going to debate whether your favourite line should be reopened....!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In reply to "Barlow Boy" the Westerham branch closed in 1961 before Dr. Beeching was on the scene. As I live not far away the area it is easy to see why it closed.
The stations were badly sited away from the places it served.
The main A25 runs parallel to the railway running through the centres of the villages so it was obvious that the bus could serve the area better.
The off peak train service was withdrawn years prior to closure as being unecomonic. The few peak hour trains carried groups of commuters but overall it was a big loss maker.
The final decision was that the land provided a route for the M25.

 

[tirphil]

My candidates for lines that would be busy now, even though they may not have been then are

Macclesfield - Uttoxeter via Leek and Alton Towers.

Rhyl - Denbigh - Ruthin

Bangor - Caernarfon (Not sure that was Beeching though)

It is worth remembering though that although many closures were recommended by Conservative Transport minister Beeching it was Harold Wilsons Labour governments of 64-66 and 66-70 that implemented the report and added to the closure programme.

 

[NSEFAN]

Having seen the damaged caused by mass closures in the past, it would be political suicide to perform such a scheme of closures again. Most lines that were doomed to failure will have already been cut, but I agree that a lot of now-useful lines were also lost. Ironically, a lot of places where useful lines once were are now built on, so reinstating lines costs a lot. In some cases, like the Bourne End-High Wycombe line, it is near impossible to reinstate any form of railway. This example is a case of a line between two key locations being cut half way: why close Bourne End-Wycombe and leave the spur to Marlow?

Part of the problem is that the government seems to think that the only way to make things run more efficiently is by cutting them, but this is not always the case. Initially investing in the service to make it more convenient can, in the long run, make the service more profitable/less of a financial burden. Passenger numbers have been rising since the 1980s, so the old arguement that fewer people want to use trains due to the rise of cars doesn't work any more. Sadly, such long term thinking is somewhat scarce in our governments.

On the Cross Country network, more trains now run than before, but at shorter lengths. As a result, the service is more attractive and Cross Country are now in dire need of more stock to cope with the rise in passenger levels! If a service is made more frequent, it can attract more business. Obviously the XC example is not quite the same as reopening closed lines, but the fact remains that if a service is there and is reliable, then people will use it.

 

[tbtc]

There's much rose tinted stuff about what the great and good Doctor did

He also gets blamed for things which were nothing to do with him and happened years earlier or later (e.g. I've heard him blamed for the closure of the Woodhead route!)...

I think, given the chaotic way in which railways were built, by competing companies, there were a few examples of duplication and certainly some uneconomical lines.

Maybe the blame shouldn't be with him for his recommendations but for how some of those trackbeds were flogged off since closure (meaning we have no chance of ever reopening them) - imagine if some of the lines had been "ring fenced" in case of future railway development?

 

[daccer]

When Beeching was compiling his report no-one foresaw the railways having a second coming as they seem to be happening today. The branch line cull was a given as many were simply never going to be viable. The loss of certain through routes I think is being felt today as there are simply no alternatives available for diversions and/or the diffusion of some of the traffic. For me I would forget HS2 and have a massive re-opening programme - but hey that would be too easy and not at sexy. Think of the miles we could get re-opened for 19 billion.

 

[tirphil]

I don't think you're alone in thinking that daccer.

 

[sprinterguy]

When Beeching was compiling his report no-one foresaw the railways having a second coming as they seem to be happening today. The branch line cull was a given as many were simply never going to be viable. The loss of certain through routes I think is being felt today as there are simply no alternatives available for diversions and/or the diffusion of some of the traffic. For me I would forget HS2 and have a massive re-opening programme - but hey that would be too easy and not at sexy. Think of the miles we could get re-opened for 19 billion.

Reopening lines as diversionary routes is still going to put the pressure of extra traffic running on these reopened routes at existing nodal points, more than likely those which are already experiencing capacity problems because of their strategic position in their local rail network. There’s more gains to be had from moving the fast trains off the classic lines and freeing up more paths for slower services that way than building a greater diversity of lines for the slower services to use.

What Beeching did was to create something of a blank canvas for the recent rising demand for rail travel, where possible routes for reopening can be assessed against the benefits they will bring and the revenue they will bring in: If more routes had remained open, then they would have remained largely unchanged from the demand patterns that sculpted them in the Victorian era, which in many cases may be irrelevant to social conditions today, whereas with a line reopening it is possible to assess how much of a route is likely to be financially viable given current conditions, and stations can be better located to suit local needs that weren’t extant in the first half of the twentieth century. Admittedly, there were many short sighted route closures that should never have happened, but what Beeching has done is to give us a core network to which branches can now be added back on now that demand is on the up, after having a long hard think about what additional bits of rail network will bring the most benefit. In his own words, Beechings’ proposals aimed for the “building up of the good parts of the railways”: They are finally achieving this in a way Beeching never envisaged: through a series of strategic and well thought out line reopening where demand dictates that this can be done.

 

[Chapeltom]

My candidates for lines that would be busy now, even though they may not have been then are

Macclesfield - Uttoxeter via Leek and Alton Towers.

Rhyl - Denbigh - Ruthin

Bangor - Caernarfon (Not sure that was Beeching though)

It is worth remembering though that although many closures were recommended by Conservative Transport minister Beeching it was Harold Wilsons Labour governments of 64-66 and 66-70 that implemented the report and added to the closure programme.

Leek is more than a big enough town for a station! In fact it is a sod to get to from anywhere north of it.

 

[starlightEXPRESS]

Oxford - Bletchley

In fact Oxford-Bletchley was not identified by Beeching for closure. The line did close in December 1967 (towards the end of the Beeching Axe closures) which does often lead to some confusion.

There's a good explanation here of the closure process and the 'logic' behind it: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/index.shtml

On this one occasion Dr Beeching is not guilty! BR's management of the line (including the construction of the Bletchley White Elephant (flyover) is best described as incompetent...

 

[anthony263]

Oxford - Bletchley would be a good line to see re-opened. I think the following should also be re-opened or have a regular passenger service:

Parson St - Ashton Gate - Portishead ( Be worked by a hourly serviceto/from gloucester with the Severn Beach - Bristol services beting extended to Weymouth)

Avonmouth - henbury - Filton Abbey Wood ( with Airbus and the MOD being close to filton a service would most likely be viable, although the line up filton bank would require a extra pair of tracks)

Carmarthen - Aberystwyth (Sadly i believe a lot has been built over, although in one railway mag it was estimated to re-build the line would cost £250 million)

Pyle - Porthcawl (Should never have been closed in the 1st place, could be viable if the number of commuters using the X2 bus service between Porthcawl & Cardiff and the trains from Pyle stn)

 

[The Barlow Boy]

A number of lines and stations closed following the Beeching report of the 1963 have reopened as part of the National Rail Network. There are many examples particularly in South Wales and Central Scotland
Actively being planned for reopening at present are examples-the northern part of the Waverley Route in Scotland, Oxford- Bletchley, Plymouth-Tavistock and reopening Croxley Green branch. Kenilworth station
Recently ATOC produced a plan of reopening many other lines but under the present economic climate in my opinion it is more a "wish list".
I am often asked by non-enthusiasts what I thought of the 1963 Beeching Report and I accept there are many lines and stations that few passengers used ,were heavy loss makers and due for closure. There were many lines/ stations that were closed that should have been kept open as they were reasonably well used -some examples are mentioned above. In my view there are many other "closure mistakes" such as York-Hull (via Market Weighton), Uckfield- Lewes, Skipton-Colne and the whole of the Waverley Route all of which are long abandoned but just maybe in the future....?
I am not going to debate whether your favourite line should be reopened....!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In reply to "Barlow Boy" the Westerham branch closed in 1961 before Dr. Beeching was on the scene. As I live not far away the area it is easy to see why it closed.
The stations were badly sited away from the places it served.The main A25 runs parallel to the railway running through the centres of the villages so it was obvious that the bus could serve the area better.
The off peak train service was withdrawn years prior to closure as being unecomonic. The few peak hour trains carried groups of commuters but overall it was a big loss maker.
The final decision was that the land provided a route for the M25.

And that's one of the problems with rail. The stations are often some way from where they ought to be. Travelling to Hemel Hemstead? The station is located in Boxmoor. Travelling to Leighton Buzzard? The station is located in Linslade. Cambridge? Take a bus to the centre.
I hadn't realised that Westerham pre-dated the Doctor. Apologies.

 

[55003]

I would vote for the Didcot Newbury and Southampton line to be reopened.It would be a good alternative to the A34

 

[kennethw]

Interested in the proposal to reopen to Tavistock as this was met by one of the largest protests, once there were 2 lines serving this town, and trains still run to the previous station, Bere Alston, before reversing to Gunnislake. However, how much is just talk?. Locally, proposals to reintroduce passenger trains on the Marchwood branch which exists as freight only seem to be just proposals, and will still be proposals in the next centuary. Likewise I've heard proposals to extend the Bodmin railway to Padstow - the trackbed is a footpath/cycle route, the station a car park

Agreed that the attitude in the 60's were that railways were obsolete, it wa the era of the freedom of the open road (Exeter bypass?), the motor car would solve all land transport problems. Population has grown since then, one comment regarding the Isle of Wight Cowes - Newport - Ryde was that in the 60's Cowes - Newport was commercially viable, but the bus was quicker Newport - Ryde, so the line closed.

The Beeching report, or rather the anticipation, caused uncertainty and users deserting the railways, fearful of cutbacks which never took place in the end - poor PR

Lines were also lost because their raison d'etre was taken away - the Pines Express off the S&D or the withdrawal of the Atlantic Coast Express, channelling all West of England traffic Paddington - Exeter, without the tourist trade, for which the LSWR branches such as Bude, Padstow, Ilfrcombe (the latter went in 1970 post Beeching) simply carried fresh air, so were candidates for closure

 

[swt_passenger]

... However, how much is just talk? Locally, proposals to reintroduce passenger trains on the Marchwood branch which exists as freight only seem to be just proposals, and will still be proposals in the next centuary.

Network Rail have just explained that Marchwood doesn't have any possible realistic business case.

There's quite a detailed analysis in the London and SE 2nd generation RUS draft, basically the existing bus routes and frequencies are far better than a railway could be due to the location of the line with respect to existing developments.

 

[IanXC]

I've been pondering recently, with the talk of service alterations for Shrewsbury and Holyhead, whether there is a case for reinstating Birmingham Snow Hill-Wolverhampton, and bringing the southern approaches to Birmingham on the Chiltern line back to 4 track.

My logic is that surely if the North Wales, Shrewsbury, XC's Reading-Manchester (and maybe some Liverpool services?) some convenient paths could be vacated on the WCML. Potentially making use of space created at Paddington as a result of Crossrail.

I would have thought there were other similar situations to this where extra capacity could be created by rerouting services with relatively minimal infrastructure work.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

I would vote for the Didcot Newbury and Southampton line to be reopened.It would be a good alternative to the A34

Bit tricky that one, the A34 uses much of the original trackbed.

 

[Any Permitted]

Great Yarmouth - Lowestoft.

The X1/1 bus is always really busy between Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth. Gorleston, Hopton and Corton all generate a lot of traffic into the two bigger towns which could have been served by a decent half-hourly service in Yarmouth South Town (nearer to town than Vauxhall).

Saying that the A12 by-pass that takes the old line of the railway is a total lifeline for the town's traffic problem so, and I hate to say this but, the road is way more useful than the railway.

 

[12CSVT]

Waverley Route (Carlisle - Edinburgh)

Penrith - Workington

Tebay - Darlington via Barnard Castle

Oxford - Bletchley / Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge (unfortunately the latter will never be possible now that planning permission has been given to construct a boating lake on the trackbed at Willington)

Cambridge - Sudbury

 

[mickey]

It is worth remembering though that although many closures were recommended by Conservative Transport minister Beeching

Beeching wasn't a minister. The minister who ordered his report was Ernest Marples, owner of a large road-building company.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Barnsley - Doncaster (direct)

Get Ripon back on the network.

I also think there is scope for many preserved lines to be re-instated back to Network Rail (controversial!). Or at least upgraded to allow modern trains run at modern speeds - Bridgnorth, Minehead spring to mid for 2 starters at least....

 

[Twoonthebuzzer]

Parson St - Ashton Gate - Portishead ( Be worked by a hourly serviceto/from gloucester with the Severn Beach - Bristol services beting extended to Weymouth)

Avonmouth - henbury - Filton Abbey Wood ( with Airbus and the MOD being close to filton a service would most likely be viable, although the line up filton bank would require a extra pair of tracks)

Pstn)

Why a direct Severn Beach to Weymouth service?

Surely keep the current Gloucester to Weymouth services, and provide a Severn Beach to Portishead service, much like a suburban Through Bristol service then! The Market for that will be stronger than for a direct Severn Beach/Weymouth, and Gloucester/Portishead and will require less units!

 

[AlexS]

I've been pondering recently, with the talk of service alterations for Shrewsbury and Holyhead, whether there is a case for reinstating Birmingham Snow Hill-Wolverhampton, and bringing the southern approaches to Birmingham on the Chiltern line back to 4 track.

My logic is that surely if the North Wales, Shrewsbury, XC's Reading-Manchester (and maybe some Liverpool services?) some convenient paths could be vacated on the WCML. Potentially making use of space created at Paddington as a result of Crossrail.

I would have thought there were other similar situations to this where extra capacity could be created by rerouting services with relatively minimal infrastructure work.

Not a chance - Snow Hill to Wolverhampton is almost entirely occupied by a tramway apart from the final section into Low Level station where it diverges to the City Centre.

 

[Mojo]

There were a lot of closures under Beeching, but don't forget that under the last nasty rail-hating Conservative government many lines and stations that were closed to passengers were reopened.

 

[LE Greys]

It's also worth remembering that it could have been much worse. The Serpell Report.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=29

 

[Masbroughlad]

It's also worth remembering that it could have been much worse. The Serpell Report.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=29

Yes, thankful that never happened!

 

[yorksrob]

There were a lot of closures under Beeching, but don't forget that under the last nasty rail-hating Conservative government many lines and stations that were closed to passengers were reopened.

Yes, they were doing alright. Infact they even worked out how to run a state owned railway. '
If they'd left it at that, and perhaps worked out how to gradually increase investment to match passenger growth, they might yet be remembered as the saviours of the railway.
But they didn't leave it at that.

 

[Ivo]

Re: The early posts regarding Thornbury and Portishead...

I'm afraid to say that I don't believe Thornbury has a case. It isn't a particularly large town, and is in quite a remote location for a service to be extended there. The only one that would work would be Weston-s-M to Parkway and, even though it would only necessitate one extra unit, the infrastructure costs are too great in my opinion.

On the other hand, Portishead has been delayed/denied/cancelled/whatever time and again, and was seriously considered by ATOC a couple of years ago in the Connecting Communities report. Of all the places that failed the basic BCR test, it was the only one that was suggested for further study (on the grounds of it having expanded so much since 2001, given that the report used data from the 2001 Census). If it was me the line would be open by now, with calls at Portbury [x], Pill, Clifton Bridge [x], and Ashton Vale [x] ([x] donating request stop); or possibly only at Pill. An Ashton Vale station may be useful for University and Bristol City FC purposes though.