Beeching Axe Mark II?

[charlee]

Could this be the start of Beeching Axe Part 2? There was a report in the local news here in the southwest that local branch lines may only stop at the final station, and omission of some of the intermediate stops on some lines. Its all a part fo the Great Western Franchise tendering. It rightly suggests that there would be "outcry" if such a widespread closure happens. It seems that we are going backwards here. I thought the government wanted to get us to use public transport. Its all done to "improve" services, but devon and cornwall have areas that are hard to get to by road, so people are going to be disadvantaged here. Here are some qoutes;

In a consultation document, the Department for Transport asks whether some branch line stops should be forsaken to speed-up journey times.

It states: "Should branch line services continue to call at all branch line stations, or could the needs of most passengers be better met by omission of some of the intermediate stops on some or all of the trains, so that the final destination is reached more quickly?"

But Christopher Irwin, chairman of passenger campaign group TravelWatch South West, said of skipping under-used stations: "It's a way of improving local services without driving people crazy.

I hope this does not happen, would be mroe bad news for the regoin, who already have crap rail services.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Tra...-negotations/story-15087382-detail/story.html

 

[YorkshireBear]

Wont happen in this day and age. People wouldnt allow it, government have to be seen to be green and reducing public transport useage will not achieve that.
From my knowledge the branch lines down in the south west have been doing very well recently.

Although in a recent edition of modern railways there was a thought provoking article about the barnstaple branch and how closing stations there would be of great benefit. If you haven't read it i would suggest doing so.

P.S you spelt plymouth wrong on your profile

 

[Schnellzug]

Staggering stopping & semi-fast trains might be sensible; that wouldn't be too much of a hardship on e.g. Barnstaple line, as the services are hourly now, so even then they'd still have a two-hourly service.

 

[Oswyntail]

Does the timing of request stops differ from normal stops? Would making all intermediate request only save any money or time?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The only way the Barnstaple line can achieve an hourly service is to lessen calls at local, smaller halts.

 

[sonorguy]

Does the timing of request stops differ from normal stops? Would making all intermediate request only save any money or time?

No, as the timetable would need to assume that stops were needed at all the request stops.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The only way the Barnstaple line can achieve an hourly service is to lessen calls at local, smaller halts.

Thats exactly what the article i referred to was suggesting im gonna dig it out tonight and summarise.

 

[scarby]

Wont happen in this day and age. People wouldnt allow it, government have to be seen to be green and reducing public transport useage will not achieve that.

I completely agree with you.

Obviously that doesn't mean all stations are immune to change and some might get a worse service; and some might get a better service - that's nothing new.

But as the OP asked would this be the "start of Beeching Mark 2" - no.

 

[Wath Yard]

Its all a part fo the Great Western Franchise tendering. It rightly suggests that there would be "outcry" if such a widespread closure happens.

No it isn't. It is a consultation document. The ITT is part of the franchise tendering process, and lists requirements for the franchise, and that hasn't been published yet.

 

[Schnellzug]

The only way the Barnstaple line can achieve an hourly service is to lessen calls at local, smaller halts.

it already is. it's served by contnuing alternate trains from Exmouth from Exeter St D.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does the timing of request stops differ from normal stops? Would making all intermediate request only save any money or time?

i'd have thought it only would be about one minute, since they have to slow down to be able to stop in time if there's anyone wanting to get on, don't they.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

it already is. it's served by contnuing alternate trains from Exmouth from Exeter St D.

I know it is - the only way they manage this though is by skipping several stations each way. Pre-December 2008, when the hourly service was introduced, most trains served all stations - however by doing this it only allowed a maximum of 1tp2h.

 

[tbtc]

Calling it "Beeching Axe Mark Two" is more than a little alarmist.

As I said in the "OMG - Wolverhampton may lose its late night services from Birmingham" thread, there will be a lot of these "my local station may lose some of its trains" discussions, as each new franchise comes up for tender.

The reality is that the Devon/Cornwall branches that I've used tend to have most of their passengers using the main line station and/or the terminus station (e.g. Falmouth and Truro), but some of the intermediate stations don't see as much trade. Making these "request stop" (or skipping them on alternate trains) would be a sensible use of resources in some circumstances - it happens elsewhere in the country without much bother.

The problem is that we all complain when the DfT micro-manages *everything*, and then we all complain when there's any flexibility/freedom for the TOC to alter services to match demand better.

I'm happy for supply to match demand, and we have to be realistic and accept that some stations on a branch are more important than others.

 

[Zoe]

The problem is that we all complain when the DfT micro-manages *everything*, and then we all complain when there's any flexibility/freedom for the TOC to alter services to match demand better.

Isn't the way things are planned to be done now a good way though? A minimum service requirement for each station with the bidders having the option to make additional calls.

 

[ACE1888]

The branch lines down this way are booming, and like it's been previously mentioned, in this day and age, the general public just wouldn't accept it, nothing like a good old bit of 'scaremongering' to cheer the masses up
Always room for improvements, in any walk of life though i suppose

 

[LE Greys]

It's another loss of service panic like the one I seem to be going through at the moment.

 

[The Planner]

No, as the timetable would need to assume that stops were needed at all the request stops.

Request stops rarely have dwell time, you put a performance allowance at the end of the branch to cover any stops if made. If none are made you arrive early.

 

[route:oxford]

It's like so many spots on the network.

In order to accommodate demand for services, there is a need to either reduce stopping services or (re-)double sections of track

(Re-)doubling would be my choice.

 

[HSTEd]

It's like so many spots on the network.

In order to accommodate demand for services, there is a need to either reduce stopping services or (re-)double sections of track

(Re-)doubling would be my choice.

And fit signals.

Maybe ETRMS Regional will appear on South West Branchlines after the resignalling of the GWML, that would go a long way to reducing the cost of these lines sufficiently to contemplate such service improvements and redoublings.

 

[Snapper]

To run non-stop to the end of the line - one still has to keep it open...

 

[HSTEd]

To run non-stop to the end of the line - one still has to keep it open...

The argument is that this will drop passenger numbers enough for them to justify closing the line or further truncating its services.

 

[Wath Yard]

But it isn't a very convincing argument when you look at the quoted passengers/annum for some of the stations concerned:

Coombe Junction Halt station near Liskeard, Cornwall, recorded just 42 "exits and entries" stops in 2019/10, and Chapelton, a rural station on the Tarka Line, near Barnstaple, North Devon, only 162.

 

[charlee]

But it isn't a very convincing argument when you look at the quoted passengers/annum for some of the stations concerned:

Coombe Junction Halt station near Liskeard, Cornwall, recorded just 42 "exits and entries" stops in 2019/10, and Chapelton, a rural station on the Tarka Line, near Barnstaple, North Devon, only 162.

Yes im guessing with figures like thoose they could close. But i was fearing that more larger used stations would be effected.

 

[tbtc]

It's like so many spots on the network.

In order to accommodate demand for services, there is a need to either reduce stopping services or (re-)double sections of track

(Re-)doubling would be my choice.

Ideally re-doubling, sure, but skipping stops is more realistic (in the short/medium term)

Isn't the way things are planned to be done now a good way though? A minimum service requirement for each station with the bidders having the option to make additional calls.

I think that it strikes a reasonable balance.

But there will be a load of public arguing about some places which *might* lose *some* trains (at this stage of the tendering), which gets a bit wearing...

For example, next time the EMT franchise is "let", there might be scare stories in the Sheffield press that our city could lose half of its London trains, only to find out that the new franchise holder will inevitably retain most/all of them. It fills newspapers and gives local "community leaders" a chance to shout about something though

 

[Bald Rick]

Given that braking and accelerating 60+ tonnes of metal from 50mph uses up a fair bit of diesel, I'd say that knocking very lightly used calls out of the TT is the environmentally friendly option.

 

[Michael.Y]

Ace1888 will know well what's happened on the Maritime Line. When I was riding it back in 2002-2005, it was one train every six weeks, stopping at such massive international interchanges such as Perranwell.

Now, by making Perranwell a request stop and putting in a passing loop at Penryn, it's one train every half an hour and passenger numbers are booming.

Makes me almost sad I'm not down there still to enjoy it really.

 

[Oliver]

The argument is that this will drop passenger numbers enough for them to justify closing the line or further truncating its services.

Whose argument is that? My reading is that changing stopping patterns could improve the service for the majority of passengers and increase usage.

BTW; I got off at Coombe Junction a couple of years ago; the conductor told me I was the first person she had ever known do so.

 

[Greenback]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with tkaing a look at passenger numbers and traffic flows on branch lines. It may be that certain stations have a very limited amount of use, and then only for certain trains, with hardly anyone using the remaining services. The point is that every line and every station is different, and without examining the usage it's impossible to know if the right level of service is being provided.

 

[Drsatan]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with tkaing a look at passenger numbers and traffic flows on branch lines. It may be that certain stations have a very limited amount of use, and then only for certain trains, with hardly anyone using the remaining services. The point is that every line and every station is different, and without examining the usage it's impossible to know if the right level of service is being provided.

True. And there's always the possibility that usage of a particular station might improve if the station was served more frequently. A good example is Newton St Cyres station which serves a village with a population of 867, according to Wikipedia. 1,784 passengers used the station between 2010 and 2011 - a figure which would improve if every train stopped there on request (the only trains to Exeter St Davids booked to call by request Monday to Friday are at 0758, 1815, 2009, 2119 and 2308; trains to Barnstaple call there at 1804, 1904 and 2107.

 

[Clip]

Same sort of outrage is in place with places like Sudbury and Harrow road which really doesnt have the passengers to justify keeping it open but it still does. Alternating the stopping pattern at such stations is the easiest and most cost effective way of keeping lines and stations open.

P.S you splet plymouth wrong on your profile

just kidding

 

[34D]

Does the timing of request stops differ from normal stops? Would making all intermediate request only save any money or time?

There would certainly be a fuel saving, if trains could run through the platform at 5mph without actually stopping.

As the later chap said, the service would be timed so that (if it didn't stop anywhere) it would pass through the last request stop on its booked time, then there would be recovery time at a major calling point/passing point/terminus.

Can they do this? Of course they will - see my other thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58814 'no service at all'.